3rd class medical and flight instruction?

[saabslave]

How can I flight instruct with only a 3rd class medical (thats all I can get right now)? Had a friend tell me I can still instruct if I don't charge, or use my airplane and charge more for that and not charge for the instruction, but I don't see anything in the regs about this. As far as I can tell all I can do is bfr if the pilot is current, instrament in vfr, and any training that someone would need for insurance (buying a plane that the insurance requires instruction for but they are rated). Am I missing something? I would love to do more but don't want to bust a reg.

 

[CA1900]

How can I flight instruct with only a 3rd class medical (thats all I can get right now)? Had a friend tell me I can still instruct if I don't charge, or use my airplane and charge more for that and not charge for the instruction, but I don't see anything in the regs about this.

Your friend is wrong. You can teach, and charge money for it, on a third class medical certificate. While a commercial is a prerequisite to take a CFI checkride, flight instruction is not a commercial operation, and thus does not require a second-class medical. I taught with a third-class for years.

No guesswork needed on this one; 61.23 spells this one out for you:

Sec. 61.23 - Medical certificates: Requirement and duration.
(a) Operations requiring a medical certificate. Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, a person:

(1) Must hold a first-class medical certificate when exercising the privileges of an airline transport pilot certificate;

(2) Must hold at least a second-class medical certificate when exercising the privileges of a commercial pilot certificate; or

(3) Must hold at least a third-class medical certificate --
(i) When exercising the privileges of a private pilot certificate;
(ii) When exercising the privileges of a recreational pilot certificate;
(iii) Except as specified in paragraph (b)(3) of this section, when exercising the privileges of a student pilot certificate;
(iv) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate, except for a flight instructor certificate with a glider category rating, if the person is acting as the pilot in command or is serving as a required pilot flight crewmember...

 

[commuterguy]

In the late 90's I instructed for a year with a 3rd class. I even took my CFII/MEI ride with a 3rd class.

 

[jak378]

The only time you have to be a little careful is when giving a demo flight to a prospective student. If you give some dual, you are okay, but if you handle the controls and simply point out the joys of flying and point out landmarks, the FAA could, and I repeat "could," construe that as a sightseeing flight. This means that if you are ramp checked or have and incident, that you should be pretty careful about answers to questions.

 

[brokeflyer]

disregard, he already said it.

 

[rumorhasit]

The only time you have to be a little careful is when giving a demo flight to a prospective student. If you give some dual, you are okay, but if you handle the controls and simply point out the joys of flying and point out landmarks, the FAA could, and I repeat "could," construe that as a sightseeing flight. This means that if you are ramp checked or have and incident, that you should be pretty careful about answers to questions.

What? It is dual given regardless.... A thrd class is all that is required!!!! Period!!!!

 

[jak378]

What? It is dual given regardless.... A thrd class is all that is required!!!! Period!!!!

You may want to check with the FAA on that. Here is a excerpt from a letter from the Office of Chief Counsel of the FAA dated February 22, 2008 and signhed by Rebecca B. MacPHerson, Assistant Chief Counsel for Regulations, AGC-200:

/.../Next, you discuss a situation in which a CFI provides an introductory flight for
compensation to a person, but it is doubtful whether flight instruction actually is provided
because the person wants to see if he or she enjoys flying or wants to sightsee. You ask first
whether this type of flight is permissible under the student instruction exception of 14 C.F.R.
§ 119.1(e)(1). Then you ask ifthe CFI must possess a second-class medical certificate to
perform this type of flight.
Although introductory flights are permissible, the purpose of the flight must be student
instruction. If no instruction is involved, the flight is a commercial operation for which a​

Part 119 certificate is required.​

2 See 14 C.F.R. § 119.1. For example, your hypothetical

introductory flight for a person who simply wants to look out the window of the aircraft
seems to be a commercial operation because no student instruction is provided or desired by
the passenger. However, there may be circumstances in which student instruction is
provided during an introductory flight for a person contemplating the pursuit of a pilot
certificate. Assuming that the flight is for the purpose of student instruction, the CFI must​

possess a third-class medical certificate as discussed above.

AS I said, normally an introductory flight counts as instruction, as long as a logbook entry is made documenting it, but if the customer simply rides along and sight sees, it could be construed as a sightseeing flight, and thus require a 2nd Class. In any event it is another area that is a bit cloudy, and for that reason it pays to be a bit cautious.

Here is the link to the FAA Legal Deciaiuon data base. If you search "flight instruction, 3rd Class Medical;\," you will find it.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org.../agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/

Anyne involved in aviation should be aware of this website.

​

 

[Amish RakeFight]

A CFI technically doesn't even need any class of medical to instruct as long as the student has at least a private and current medical. CFI can still log PIC as well based upon dual given. Compensation is allowed as well.

 

[rumorhasit]

I guess I do a different introductory Flt because the student actually controls the airplane. A sight seeing tour is not being discussed but showing a potiental student what they are in for is. My first intro Flt consist of basic aircraft control which includes climbs decents and turns. Of course they are looking out the airplane, they are VFR. The question was flight instruction and the required medical and that is a third class....period!!!!

 

[midlifeflyer]

A CFI technically doesn't even need any class of medical to instruct as long as the student has at least a private and current medical.

Depends on the type of instruction being given. If the instruction requires the CFI to act as PIC ( training for the complex endorsement) or a as required crewmember (pilot under the hood; CFI as required safety pilot), then the CFI need the 3d class medical.

 

[avbug]

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org.../interpretations/data/interps/2008/Murphy.pdf

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...nterpretations/data/interps/1995/Fretwell.rtf

 

[jak378]

The first link provided by Avbug is actually the one that I quoted an excerpt from. I believe it covers the topic in a very clear manner.

I would only repeat that anyone directly involved in aviation should be aware of the FAA's database of legal decisions. In any questionable area, especially one that could involve enforcement action, it is not always wise to rely on the FSDO for interpretation. If you do, at least have the name of the person to whom you spoke, even though that will probably not save you if the interpretation is wrong.

 

[avbug]

In any questionable area, especially one that could involve enforcement action, it is not always wise to rely on the FSDO for interpretation.

The FSDO level has never had authority to interpret the regulation. Legal interpretation is reserved for the Regional and Chief Legal Counsel offices.

Accepting, listening to, reading, or using an "interpretation" from a FSDO would not only be unwise, but very, very stupid. One has no more authority, and no more defensibility in such an "interpretation," than from anyone on the street.

If you do, at least have the name of the person to whom you spoke, even though that will probably not save you if the interpretation is wrong.

Whether the person at the FSDO is right or wrong is irrelevant. Whether you have it in writing or not is irrelevant. You may get a letter from the FSDO stating that the color red is really black. That letter will not make the color black, however, nor will it serve in your defense if you elect to see red as black.

Having the name of the person to whom you spoke is meaningless. If you're the subject of enforcement action, you can never say "but so-and-so at XXXX FSDO told me it was okay," or produce something in writing from the FSDO, in your defense. The FSDO has no authority to interpret the regulation. Without that authority, anything that the FSDO provides you in writing, or in person, is of no effect.

Some will argue (incorrectly) that an inspector at the FSDO certainly can interpret regulation, because he or she can violate you. This is wrong, of course, as an inspector may initiate enforcement proceedings and recommend enforcement action, but can never interpret the regulation. The FAA Administrator, appointed as an office by an Act of Congress, speaks through his or her Chief Legal Counsel in these matters. Such interpretations are authoritative, and are defensible before an Administrative Law Judge.

 

[jak378]

It seems that Avbug and I essentially agree, but while I was trying to couch my post as diplomatically as possible, he is much more blunt and to the point. It is in fact, much more appropriate to be blunt and undiplomatic in these matters. When I did my post I was trying to be polite and making the assumption that most readers were able to read comprehensively, and were smart enough to read between the lines. That is incorrect and I should have known better. Thanks for making the points much more clearly.

Now that the database of decisions is so readily available, there should be no need to even attempt to rely on the FSDO.