Anyone DE-ICE leaving KEGE on the 1st, 2nd or 3rd???

[Fly91]

Our plane, along with at least a couple others have called Vail Valey Jet Center about the fluid having trashed the paint. It will not come off no matter what you do. Gonna try some rubbing compound tomorrow.

Anyone else....

 

[TMMT]

What color was it (type)?

 

[Fly91]

What color was it (type)?

Type I
Dow Chemicals
Orange


Never in 12 years have I had de-ice fluid stain the paint on any plane I've ever flown in any country. Very wierd. And I'm not the only one complaining.

 

[landlover]

Type I
Dow Chemicals
Orange


Never in 12 years have I had de-ice fluid stain the paint on any plane I've ever flown in any country. Very wierd. And I'm not the only one complaining.

call Dow and ask if they use it on their own planes?

 

[svcta]

Deicing fluid sucks.

If you don't mind me asking, was the deicing due to active precip or something like overnight frost?

 

[o2bflyn]

call Dow and ask if they use it on their own planes?

Better yet, call Dow and ask what they would use to get it off....

 

[Fly91]

Deicing fluid sucks.

If you don't mind me asking, was the deicing due to active precip or something like overnight frost?

It sat 13 days, outside, at EGE. Had a couple inches of ice across the horizontal stab and 6-8 long icicles hanging off of it, and some lumpy areas of ice that looked about 4-5 inches high in some areas. Had to do the tail. We were in line behind 4 planes that all de-iced at least their tails. Then there were a bunch of spots on the top of the fuse right up near the windshield that looked about 1 inch thick, that went back about halfway down the fuse on top. Couldn't knock it off with the scraper.

They sprayed the top of the fuse from the windshield back about halfway, then the entire top and bottom of the H-stab.

We have streaks from the front to the back about 2-3 feet wide in a swirling pattern. Looks pretty cool...if it were a paint job lol

Also, that streak goes right across all the windows on both sides.

Wierd thing is: Some of it, not very much of it, came right off with the brush of my hand. But 90% of it is in the paint. A professional detailer tried to get some of it off today with 3 different liquid chemicals and a rubbing compound. Didn't budge it.
They're gonna have to high-speed buff it out, then repolish the whole plane. The paint on this thing was perfect too.

 

[LJ45]

They're gonna have to high-speed buff it out, then repolish the whole plane. The paint on this thing was perfect too.

That is a mistake. It's not like a car with several coats and a clear coat. The paint on airplanes are a thin coat. I wouldn't let them do that with out further info. JMHO

 

[SNAFU22]

That is a mistake. It's not like a car with several coats and a clear coat. The paint on airplanes are a thin coat. I wouldn't let them do that with out further info. JMHO

The base coat should be able to handle rubbing compound, if done correctly. Most paint shops shoot 3 coats, typically "Matterhorn White". Clear is shot only on metallic base or when requested on stripes.

 

[Falcon Jet 1]

he said type 1, so that means deice not antice(type4)

 

[DieselDragRacer]

That is a mistake. It's not like a car with several coats and a clear coat. The paint on airplanes are a thin coat. I wouldn't let them do that with out further info. JMHO

FWIW: If an electronic mil gauge worked on aluminum you would find there is as much clearcoat on a car as there is polyurethane single stage on a plane (though some jets have base clear). Chances are there's more millage of the polyurethane single stage on these fancy jets than the clear coat of the base clear job your typical family sedan. The reason being you need a certain amount of minimum mils (usually 2 dry mils) of any coating for the UV inhibitors to do their job effectively.

Also depending on the amount of solids in a clear coat or single stage you can get the same coverage/dry film build out of 1 coat something as you can 3 coats of something else. It's all in the formulation. Obviously on a big jet the less time you have to go around applying coats the less labor and overspray you have which is why 1 and 2 coat products are common in this industry.

I'm curious what chemical in the de-icer ate into the paint on the jet because its either something relatively strong or the coating on the jet doesn't have the best chemical resistance.

 

[o2bflyn]

I'm curious what chemical in the de-icer ate into the paint on the jet because its either something relatively strong or the coating on the jet doesn't have the best chemical resistance.

Yeah, it seems really weird. Before I would do too much "correcting", I would find out why it happened. That way you know who to talk to regarding the bill. Vail valley Jet, or the paint shop.

 

[Fly91]

That is a mistake. It's not like a car with several coats and a clear coat. The paint on airplanes are a thin coat. I wouldn't let them do that with out further info. JMHO

You're right, they need to be careful. The company that does the aircraft detailing here are some pretty good dudes. The paint is pretty thick poly and pretty much in brand new condition.

 

[mxpilot2]

I heard a bunch of planes call going through deicing, and more as we left. We didn't need to, glad for that, now that I hear this.

 

[Fly91]

UPDATE:

Yesterday, we went out to the plane to check it out and almost all of it was turned into dust. It just wiped right off. There still is a very faint amount of stains remaining in various spots. But now they are so faint that you would need to walk up to the plane to see them and know where to look.

I spoke with a DOW rep also. There are 5 different TYPE I fluids that they make, they are all Orange. If the fluids are mixed wrong...or DILUTED "hint-hint"....it will be too strong and could stain anything and freeze to the aircraft. If they are diluted...it will instantly freeze to the aircrafts surface as you accelerate down the runway and stay there the entire flight till you either descend into warmer air and it slowly melts away, or until you wash it off after landing. As we all know, its supposed to shed off the aircraft completely while accelerating.

Now the story:
We had our fluid blow up and across the windshield and instantly freeze onto the windshield and haze it over on take-off, that was not cool. It was like someone pulled a curtain on us right around V1. We were literally on instruments rotating and climbing out the entire time. It remained hazy almost the entire flight. I thought I'd be doing a somewhat zero/zero landing for 3 hours. lol I activated my alcohol during the descent to hopefully dissolve the de-ice fluid and melt it, then blow it off with windshield heat. I have pictures, I'll get them downloaded. My side (left side) was almost totally clear on landing. The co-pilots side was hammered still. Could hardly see through it. GLAD WE HAVE ALCOHOL ON THE LEARS. So....it worked to dissolve it almost completely on my side.....PHEW!!! The co-pilots windshield cleared up a little bit from the warmer air and windshield heat, but it was very hard to make things out through it. Maybe descending through about 20,000 ft. is when the co-pilots side started to clear up a little.
Also, make sure you keep your paint well polished/waxed as to decrease or eliminate any oxidation of the paint. The more porous the paint gets over time, the more those oxidized/porous areas of the aircraft will absorb and hold onto that fluid, then you will get stains. The smoother the paint surfaces, easier to shed off when accelerating down the runway.
I'm not saying our fluid was "diluted"....yet this has not happened in any type of plane I've ever flown, anywhere in the world in 11 years......its not supposed to instantly freeze onto the airframe when taking off, or in our case, the windshield also.

--Learjet guys...if it happens you have the alcohol to break it up.

--Others without alcohol or wipers, I guess all you can do is hope your flying into warmer air down low on arrival where it should melt and blow off, or blow it off with windshield heat down low.

If that happens, and you have no wipers or alcohol, and you're landing in a very cold climate where it never has a chance to thaw and melt away....you may be landing with no visual referance outside. Yikes!!! Practice it in the sim....lol

Just something else for everyone to think about..............it never ends does it.

 

[bogi0912]

Anytime we leave our airplane for more than a couple days at cold airports, we always make sure it is hangered for the last day. Although if there was precipitation on departure you would still have to de-ice it certainly helps to knock off the majority of the ice.

 

[BoilerUP]

The ice on your windshield didn't sublimate after 1hr+ at M0.70+?

 

[TimsKeeper]

I don't think it was ice. It was the de-icing fluid.

Had it happen to me on a C310 once coming out of Trenton, New Jersey. Took about an hour to be able to see enough out of the window; very unnerving not knowing if you will be able to see on landing.

 

[BoilerUP]

I don't think it was ice. It was the de-icing fluid.

Wouldn't it still sublimate off, vs. melting as you descended into above-freezing temps?

 

[LJ45]

Wouldn't it still sublimate off, vs. melting as you descended into above-freezing temps?

It leaves an oily looking film! heat helps it come off, but still leave a mess on the windscreen. That is why you shouldn't put it where it can get on the windscreen.