Duty Time Limits

[Splert]

What year (decade) did each of the following pilot groups negotiate duty time limits more restrictive than the FARs (domestic, two pilot operations).

Airtran -
AMR -
CAL -
Delta -
NWA -
Southwest -
United -
USAiways -

Thanks

 

[PCL_128]

AirTran has a max duty day of 12 hours in our 2001 contract.

 

[Splert]

AirTran has a max duty day of 12 hours in our 2001 contract.

Thanks was that the first appearance?

 

[mamba20]

at CAL THEY gave everything away in '83 in order to "save the airline"

 

[densoo]

Hard to answer for CAL because the question assumes a rule more restrictive than the FAR. Prior to Whitlow ruling, CAL regularly had crews fly beyond 16 hours. Their interpretation was the same as the one for daily flight time--it only had to be "scheduled" to 16 hours. If circumstances warranted, you were legal to go beyond. The Whitlow ruling stopped that insanity.

Now they adjust duty day start times mostly with reserves to try to get around even the 16 hour limit. They'll call an a.m. reserve and "release" them from reserve duty for FAR min crew rest and assign them to a evening pairing or even redeye. So you sleep all night because you're on a.m. reserve then, after a solid night's sleep, they expect to sleep all day to fly all night. If that isn't a violation of the intent of the Whitlow ruling, I don't know what is.

 

[RedDogC130]

Maximum Duty Period Report Time
Maximum Duty Period Scheduled / Maximum Actual
0200-0359
10 Hours 12 Hours
0400-0559
12 Hours 14 Hours
0600-1059
13 Hours 15 Hours
1100-1459
12 Hours 14 Hours
1500-1959
11 Hours 13 Hours
2000-0159
9 Hours 11 Hours​

SWA

 

[Splert]

Thanks guys,

I have the numbers I want to know when if first changed.

For instance, if it was 1965 soime of us are dragging the indusry back to 1965.

 

[100/hour/5y]

CAL is the FAR's... that is it

 

[flygirlqt]

at CAL THEY gave everything away in '83 in order to "save the airline"

ALPA did the same thing in 2005 with pos02.

 

[SuperFLUF]

CAL is the FAR's... that is it

Read the contract. As bad as it is, CALAlpa still has domestic duty time limits that are less than the FAR's (depending on the show time).

I don't know if there is a copy of the "redbook" contract that was in effect at CAL before the '83 strike but it's quite likely that it contained domestic duty time limits more restrictive than the FAR's.

I would be shocked if there is a passenger airline contract in force that is better than what existed at that same airline before deregulation.

 

[densoo]

Read the contract. As bad as it is, CALAlpa still has domestic duty time limits that are less than the FAR's (depending on the show time).

I don't know if there is a copy of the "redbook" contract that was in effect at CAL before the '83 strike but it's quite likely that it contained domestic duty time limits more restrictive than the FAR's.

I would be shocked if there is a passenger airline contract in force that is better than what existed at that same airline before deregulation.

You are correct. There are some areas that are "better than" FAR. Not many, but some.

 

[QCappy]

What year (decade) did each of the following pilot groups negotiate duty time limits more restrictive than the FARs (domestic, two pilot operations).

Airtran -
AMR -
CAL -
Delta -
NWA -
Southwest -
United -
USAiways -

Thanks

You don't want Alaska so I won't give it to you.

 

[PCL_128]

Thanks was that the first appearance?

I don't have the old agreement handy, but I'm pretty sure that was the first time it was in the agreement.

 

[Lear70]

I don't have the old agreement handy, but I'm pretty sure that was the first time it was in the agreement.

Yes, it was.

 

[get2flyin]

Was going to put a copy of USAir West's in but since I can't insert the image, the hell with it. Too much work. The quick version,

The longest: Start time: 0601-1300 Scheduled: 13 Actual: 14:30
The shortest:Start time: 2201-0230 Scheduled: 9:30 Actual: 10:30

Everything else fits in the middle. I don't know what the East guys do but I'm guessing it sucks as much as FAA regs.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

You don't want Alaska so I won't give it to you.

Do you know which decade we achieved better than FAR duty limits?

 

[Splert]

Do you know which decade we achieved better than FAR duty limits?

I have the CBAs for all the airlines that I listed and Alaska (sorry) but I'm trying to determine when, what year, the duty time limit was FIRST negotiated to be more restrictive than the FARs.

Sorry I was not more clear in with my first post.

For instance it was in 19XX for UAL?

 

[RedDogC130]

the SWA one I listed was for our new contract. sorry, do not have the one previous to that.

 

[737tanker]

the SWA one I listed was for our new contract. sorry, do not have the one previous to that.

The previous SWA contract was signed in 1994 and had duty days lower than FAR. However I'm fairly certain that lower than FAR duty days were in place before that.