Airtran Big Annoucement?

[Monster Buck]

Didn't you guys use to have a rj deal with someone else a few years back? I thought I remembered seeing an air tran painted crj 200 in Bloomington IL.

 

[DonVerita]

Yes. And RJ's didn't work then either. Just wait for SkyWest to screw this up and we'll be back to status quo.

 

[Shakenbake]

Yes. And RJ's didn't work then either. Just wait for SkyWest to screw this up and we'll be back to status quo.

Sorry. Maybe I'm misinformed, but does Skywest have a history of screwing things up that you're basing this on? Or is it that other operators have been unsuccessful with the economics of the CRJ200?

 

[Colonel Savage]

"Or is it that other operators have been unsuccessful with the economics of the CRJ200?"

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

 

[Nindiri]

Oh well. I'd love to fly the CRJ in AirTran colors, it's a fun airplane, especially the 70, but apparently my industry-basement pay rate is still too high.

 

[Lear70]

Oh well. I'd love to fly the CRJ in AirTran colors, it's a fun airplane, especially the 70,

Me, too...

At SNB AirTran pay rates on the AirTran seniority list.

SCOPE!

 

[ATLboeing]

Lear,
I used to like you. I don't anymore.
Every one of your predictions have been spot on and now you're saying we're gonna strike...and I'm slowly becoming an alcoholic with each post.
Kidding, but I think you may be right again. It's the only thing these guys will respond to. I sure wish I could get a look at that big picture they keep on the wall down there because none of this makes sense.
Oh well, back to the bottle. I'm buying if anybody wants to join. I'll send you the bill for AA.

 

[Nindiri]

I hate striking, but if it must be, then it must be. There are far worse things. I have one battle star and I will be proud to add another one walking with my fellow AirTran aviators. Let's do it.

 

[Erlanger]

fuzzy077 say;

Looks like Skywest will be doing some flying for us...

Captain Jeff say;

No.... They will be flying instead of you!

That was cruel.

 

[Lear70]

I can't afford the AA bill, and no one likes a quitter, anyway...

Wish I could say it wasn't so, but it is what it is. The only good news is that, due to Kolski's and Anderson's ages, you'll likely still be here when they retire. The bad news is that I'm not sure we'll have a contract before that happens. (ok, that's a bad joke, but the NEXT contract might not happen before then...)

Those who aren't saving for their strike funds need to start. Can't be any clearer on what management's intentions are at this point.

 

[Anonymous2]

The other thread was dead, so I figured I may as well repeat my post here.


These regional airlines have absolutely nowhere else to go (or grow), aside from the business they have now. No more money to make and a whole lot of small regional jets to spare. SkyWest and other regional carriers are on the prowl for business, and it may be at any cost. Its not up to the regionals, its up to each and everyone of you mainliners to protect yourselves now. Stop barking at regional pilots to set "industry leading contracts" and talk to your peers and or unions and make some plans now (or do whatever you possibly can). In my opinion, the key is to get on some common ground with your management asap. Both regional and your own mainline management won't be "waiting for your input" when expansion/growth decisions are made. Making an effort now, will dictate whether mainline grows, or the regional affiliate grows. You may not be able to change the past, but at least do whatever you can to dictate your future(s).

Anyone agree with my point of view on this?

 

[PCL_128]

Still think a SWA merger would be a 'bad' thing?

Without a doubt.

 

[dicko]

Without a doubt.

SWA would suck for you wouldn't it PCL ? ..... No ALPA National for you. You'd have to fly an airplane instead of suckling off the teat of big John.

 

[dh82dvr]

I would take a SWA merger over the slow erosion of my job to outsourcing.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Lear & ATLboeing,

Keep drinking heavily. Do no worry about cost, AA is free:beer:

 

[gt1900]

Any one but me think that this "might" just be a brilliant play by managment to get guys so worked up over scope, that they forget about pay, schedule, retirement etc??? Ive talked to several guys who keep saying scope is the most important thing, and they are right. But lets not forget the big picture. We need scope, pay, schedules, everything. Hopefully guys won't forget that. I find it especially interesting that the company has said several times that crj-200's don't work, but here we are. Only 5 planes, in Sky West colors, to destinations that already exist (except 2). This might just be AAI's biggest bluff yet. Don't forget the big picture.....

 

[Colonel Savage]

"You may not be able to change the past, but at least do whatever you can to dictate your future(s)."

Sounds like a zen moment.

 

[MINIME]

More importantly, this could be management testing your negotiating resolve. Maybe they want you to ask to be released since you guys seem hundreds of miles away from doing it. S. Kolsky must be getting bored again.

Personally, I thought you guys would've petitioned the NMB to be released or have a TA by now. From the way it looks, neither are close. As we know all too well, those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it.

While this move may not seem like a threat to some, it most certainly has the potential to become Midwest part 2 or something along the lines of Gojet. For those that still think that their beloved company would never do that to them, I've got some prime waterfront property for sale along the Pakistan/Afghanistan border! You interested??

Wake up boys, or wake your union leaders. This is more of a test to your resolve than a profitable venture. Nothing against the Skywest pilots, but this could be step one of many more, more daring steps this management could be getting ready for. These things usually start very subtle or with rosy promises of a big carrot.

You should now have a more friendly NMB, use it. Use it before you're left wondering what the hell just hit you. I'd assume that many Midwest pilots would probably have similar advice.

 

[Anonymous2]

More importantly, this could be management testing your negotiating resolve. Maybe they want you to ask to be released since you guys seem hundreds of miles away from doing it. S. Kolsky must be getting bored again.

Personally, I thought you guys would've petitioned the NMB to be released or have a TA by now. From the way it looks, neither are close. As we know all too well, those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it.

While this move may not seem like a threat to some, it most certainly has the potential to become Midwest part 2 or something along the lines of Gojet. For those that still think that their beloved company would never do that to them, I've got some prime waterfront property for sale along the Pakistan/Afghanistan border! You interested??

Wake up boys, or wake your union leaders. This is more of a test to your resolve than a profitable venture. Nothing against the Skywest pilots, but this could be step one of many more, more daring steps this management could be getting ready for. These things usually start very subtle or with rosy promises of a big carrot.

You should now have a more friendly NMB, use it. Use it before you're left wondering what the hell just hit you. I'd assume that many Midwest pilots would probably have similar advice.

I second this post. Pretty similar to what I said. Now will always be better than never.

 

[RedRum]

Any one but me think that this "might" just be a brilliant play by managment to get guys so worked up over scope, that they forget about pay, schedule, retirement etc??? Ive talked to several guys who keep saying scope is the most important thing, and they are right. But lets not forget the big picture. We need scope, pay, schedules, everything. Hopefully guys won't forget that. I find it especially interesting that the company has said several times that crj-200's don't work, but here we are. Only 5 planes, in Sky West colors, to destinations that already exist (except 2). This might just be AAI's biggest bluff yet. Don't forget the big picture.....

I agreed with you right up to the point that you said this deal "might" be a brilliant play by management. It IS a brilliant play by management and they have ALREADY done it. The ink has already dried on the contract with Skywest.

The question is, what are the AAI pilots going to do about it?

I agree with these latter posts that you may need to ask some Midwest pilots about this sort of thing. It really is shameful that this sort of thing is happening across the board. Hope it doesn't continue but until we collectively put a stop to it, it will continue.

When I was at the regionals, the majors was a goal I set. I can't help but think with all this regional creep going on that many regional pilots have totally given up on their goal of becoming a pilot with the majors.

Hence the problem we have with ALPA right now. There is a major conflict of interest. How can I be subsidizing the agenda of a regional pilot while trying to bolster mine? They are counter-intuitive and this arrangement will never work. Our goals are too disparate when you look at the scope issue.

 

[islandhoper]

I'm definitely mentally ready for the strike. I tell the MEC boys everytime I see them...
What kind of other preparations you guys think we should do? (Financially and organizational?)

 

[ATLboeing]

More importantly, this could be management testing your negotiating resolve. Maybe they want you to ask to be released since you guys seem hundreds of miles away from doing it. S. Kolsky must be getting bored again.

Personally, I thought you guys would've petitioned the NMB to be released or have a TA by now. From the way it looks, neither are close. As we know all too well, those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it.

While this move may not seem like a threat to some, it most certainly has the potential to become Midwest part 2 or something along the lines of Gojet. For those that still think that their beloved company would never do that to them, I've got some prime waterfront property for sale along the Pakistan/Afghanistan border! You interested??

Wake up boys, or wake your union leaders. This is more of a test to your resolve than a profitable venture. Nothing against the Skywest pilots, but this could be step one of many more, more daring steps this management could be getting ready for. These things usually start very subtle or with rosy promises of a big carrot.

You should now have a more friendly NMB, use it. Use it before you're left wondering what the hell just hit you. I'd assume that many Midwest pilots would probably have similar advice.

Hey, I've been to Pakistan & Afghanistan and you're full of ******************** man!
But I agree, they're testing our resolve big time. It's like one management group just hands the well worn playbook over to the next and says, "Here, it works." They drag it out, erode your current contract, degrade your quality of life (schedules & hotels), constantly distract you to keep your eye off the ball, and last but not least, threaten your job security somehow to make you revisit and see what you'll give up for scope. With regionals searching for new streams of revenue, this is just a new angle.
Hopefully this will wake some guys up to STOP picking up open time and doing favors for the company. We need to hit them in the wallet since it's the only thing they respond to at the table.

...and whoever talked me out of AA, thanks. I picked a hell of a week to stop drinking.

 

[Raskal]

Good luck, and for all the guys trying to move up, please don't let this happen without a fight...

 

[scarlet]

and the swine flu is going around....hopefully the seats in the cockpits get replaced with new ones. hopefully the coach seats get replaced with ones that does not show metal. (customers love our seats) Go sit in 11F on most 717s, nothing stopping you.

Alot of placards are missing or can't hardly read.

TAKE PICTURES !!!

 

[ATLboeing]

and the swine flu is going around....hopefully the seats in the cockpits get replaced with new ones. hopefully the coach seats get replaced with ones that does not show metal. (customers love our seats) Go sit in 11F on most 717s, nothing stopping you.

Alot of placards are missing or can't hardly read.

TAKE PICTURES !!!

And for some reason, they're more noticeable at the outstations

 

[V1rowt8]

Somebody please explain to me how this is not a CBA violation since I believe there is scope language to prohibit this? If there is, then can't the pilot group be released to and or begin self help soon?

 

[Lear70]

Well, for starters, the CBA DOES allow them the use of 50 seat RJ's in certain levels of ASM's, so no, it's NOT a violation of the CBA.

However, management doesn't see it that way. They don't see this move as a "COVERED ITEM" on the CBA. Meaning, because they've labeled it a "partnership", it's no longer a "code share" and therefore whatever they do is EXEMPT from any restrictions from within the CBA.

This causes two problems. First, there is no legal response we can make to it as it does not violate Section 1 of the Contract, by any definition, so we can't really grieve their interpretation if it does not, indeed, violate anything. Secondly, by not challenging that "interpretation" and labeling this flying, when they DO violate it in the future, they will argue previous precedent that we didn't challenge it before, so why are we concerned now?

Does the airline really intend to pull a Midwest here? I don't THINK so, but they're probing on so many different levels, it's hard to tell what's really their intent and what's not.

I have my personal ideas, but they're just speculation, like everyone else...

 

[Colonel Savage]

How about demanding a LOA with the Company stating no more than 50 seats applies to any lift agreement of any kind with third party carriers?

 

[Lear70]

Demand with what leverage?

 

[Colonel Savage]

Good question. I didn't think politely asking for the LOA would work, but I just wanted to put the idea out there. The particulars would be up to the ALPA braintrust.