Pilots on food stamps.

[jonjuan]

We have a 10 year FO on food stamps. He's married with 5 kids. When he was hired people were upgrading after 6 months to a year. They were also told they would be at American in 4 to 5 years. 8 years later he upgraded only to be displaced into the right seat 6 months later.

Are we supposed to feel sorry for a regional FO who decided to have 5 kids? What ever happened to having all debt paid off and then having a significant cash cushion/savings before taking on a mortgage and having kids?

 

[onewithwings]

Doctors, Military, Teachers?? What the hell are you talking about? Are you talking about the Doctors that after a fixed period of time can count on not only earning a livable wage, but virtually a guaranteed 6 figure income?

I don't think Dr.'s makes as much as we think. I have a friend who is working 5 days a week as a research physician and the week end as an ER Dr. in another city (5 hour drive) to make enough money to support his wife and child. He is 35 years old. He says he takes a weekend off a month to spend with his family.

He was telling me how, when he was a resident they have to spend 36 hours on duty and how he envied pilots who have gov't mandated time and duty restrictions. He works 12 hour shifts in ER and that is crazy, crazy work. I was floored to hear his story.

My cousin who is a Dr. graduated with so much debt that he went into the Army because they offered to pay all his medical school debt. He is hesitant to go into private practice because of the huge overhead and malpractice insurance costs. For now, he's happy in the Army working a 90 day rotation as a surgeon out of Baghdad.

It's not all peaches and cream...

 

[www.]

I have an idea, let's get ACORN to help these guys out!

 

[altimaklr]

Don't forget about Section 8 housing too. I qualify as a FO and I'm currently on the waiting list (it'll probably be a while in this economy).

 

[CA1900]

Are we supposed to feel sorry for a regional FO who decided to have 5 kids?

I hope not. I shouldn't be paying for his choice to have kids.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Are we supposed to feel sorry for a regional FO who decided to have 5 kids? What ever happened to having all debt paid off and then having a significant cash cushion/savings before taking on a mortgage and having kids?

So we get to question life?

If a large or majority percentage of FO's had 3+ kids, there might be a issue... then again not really....

If a few FO's have five kids so be it. They won't have much discretionary income, but they will be rich in life and family. Also, perhaps this is a 2nd career and the kids were already around. This FO took the bait and lure of the profession thinking, like we all did, that we'd be making 6 figures in 5 years....

I recall a FO at my regional who had cancer... It was concerning for a while. He got better but was still out of flying for a while. While he was out his wife became pregnant. The MEC was helping with his COBRA payments. While I was coming off of a trip, smart a$$ big aviation college 20-something intern turned airline pilot sneers... "what is he doing have kids if we're paying for his cobra"

Again.. the point is what are WE doing as members of our profession to raise the floor up?

Instead of judging how many kids a fellow pilot should have, let's judge the compensation package his is getting.

 

[altimaklr]

Sure. Let's not question someone who decides to have multiple kids, while working at the lowest point in a very unstable industry. Not to mention he probably isn't even home half the month. I guess it's ok to defend pilots, but if a walmart worker has kids and gets welfare, then they are selfish lazy mf'ers.

 

[Jar Jar]

www.peopleofwalmart.com

awesome..

 

[BoilerUP]

A professional airline pilot shouldn't need food stamps to provide for themselves and their family.

That being said - where is the accountability of these people accepting employment in a historically unstable industry with widely-known low pay the first couple years? Why would one go into mountains of debt and then be forced to use government assistance (meant for those who need it out of necessity, not by choice) simply so they can have an "office with a view"?

Call me old-fashioned, but I'd leave this clusterscrew of an industry in a second if I couldn't reasonably support myself and my family while under FULL-TIME EMPLOYMENT...

 

[spitfire1500]

A professional airline pilot shouldn't need food stamps to provide for themselves and their family.

That being said - where is the accountability of these people accepting employment in a historically unstable industry with widely-known low pay the first couple years? Why would one go into mountains of debt and then be forced to use government assistance (meant for those who need it out of necessity, not by choice) simply so they can have an "office with a view"?

Call me old-fashioned, but I'd leave this clusterscrew of an industry in a second if I couldn't reasonably support myself and my family while under FULL-TIME EMPLOYMENT...

Exactly!!! Anyone that goes out and spends the $ to be competitive in this industry now, the way it is, is just foolish!! The investment now is enourmous and in reality over the longrun you are investing in this industries management groups to provide worthwhile opportunities....very foolish!!

 

[Chubaka]

For those having a hard time financially, don't forget Angel Food Ministries. $30 for a 30 day supply of food.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

For those having a hard time financially, don't forget Angel Food Ministries. $30 for a 30 day supply of food.

I just went and googled their website. Wow is all I can say about them. That is exactly what this country could use more of in my opinion. Impressive on their part.

 

[Chubaka]

People have told me the food is first rate. It is not seconds or old expired food. You fill out a menu online and then go pick up your order on one particular day of the month. They have steaks, pork chops, fruit and vegetables,etc.....

 

[WayBack]

Good point-

I love getting to line at Wal-Mart (or pretty much any other store,) and seeing some a-hole pull out one of those EBT cards and pay for crap I can't afford (nice, big steaks, etc.)

If I walk out of the store behind these people, they will invariably pull out a brand new I-Phone or Blackberry and start using in enroute to get into their $40K SUV.

-Real classy people.

It's like the Bumber Sticker/ T-Shirt I want to make.
"SUV- $50k.
26 inch rims- $5000.
Nike's Air Jordans- $150.
But you don't have the money to pay your child support!?"

 

[pipejockey]

Maybe this FO with 5 kids doesn't want to be an old man before he has kids. maybe he would like Grandkids one day. How long should we wait? By the way, unless he has a wife considerably younger than he, by the time FO's at Eagle, Horizon, Comair, to name a few, can upgrade, they will be in their 40's if they were initially hired at 30. Some of those senior FO's got into this profession before 9-11 when all indications industry wide were 1 to 3 years as FO and then a couple as CA and you are on to a Major. But now that all the expansion is at the regionals, there is no career progression. Bottom line...regional FO's need to earn at least 60 grand a year at min line guarantee. The airlines have had a field day for the past 8 years regarding labor costs and what has gone on this industry. They have reaped significant savings by dumping all of these jets with less than 100 seats at the regionals, and transferring an enormous amount of flying from mainline to the regionals, now it is time to spread the savings a bit more fairly. And that means paying RJ FO's a livable wage.

I guess it's ok to defend pilots, but if a walmart worker has kids and gets welfare, then they are selfish lazy mf'ers.

Yes! Exactly!! What has a Walmart worker done to better themselves and to make something of themselves? How can you possibly compare someone who walks into walmart and says they can stock shelves, and a pilot who is interviewing for a flight officer position?

I have a friend who is working 5 days a week as a research physician and the week end as an ER Dr. in another city (5 hour drive) to make enough money to support his wife and child.

I would have to think this Doctor is living quite well, and he must work all these hours to support an above average lifestyle. As far as regional FO's go, they are netting about 2 grand a month. I would wager that this Doctor can easily double that at his primary job.

Are we supposed to feel sorry for a regional FO who decided to have 5 kids? What ever happened to having all debt paid off and then having a significant cash cushion/savings before taking on a mortgage and having kids?

As I said earlier, many regional FO's who began this job before 9-11 at 30 years of age, which was the average age of a new hire in 2000 or so, are still FO's at Eagle, Comair, and Horizon who have 10 year upgrades. And other airlines will be approaching that in a few years. And if their wife is of similar age, then time is up. No pilot should have to be forced to never have a child just because they chose to become an airline pilot. What's the matter with you people? We have ended up sacrificing much more than anticipated for this profession, now we must sacrifice a family? Enough is enough!

 

[OPECJet]

I don't think Dr.'s makes as much as we think. I have a friend who is working 5 days a week as a research physician and the week end as an ER Dr. in another city (5 hour drive) to make enough money to support his wife and child. He is 35 years old. He says he takes a weekend off a month to spend with his family.

He was telling me how, when he was a resident they have to spend 36 hours on duty and how he envied pilots who have gov't mandated time and duty restrictions. He works 12 hour shifts in ER and that is crazy, crazy work. I was floored to hear his story.

My cousin who is a Dr. graduated with so much debt that he went into the Army because they offered to pay all his medical school debt. He is hesitant to go into private practice because of the huge overhead and malpractice insurance costs. For now, he's happy in the Army working a 90 day rotation as a surgeon out of Baghdad.

It's not all peaches and cream...

My wife's cousin recently got his first job after medical school. His first paycheck is more than I made in my first year at Piedmont. His monthly income is about what I made in my second year there.

He went into radiology, which is a higher paid field within medicine than being a family doctor, pediatrician, etc... Getting there was no picnic. You are dead on with the long rotations in residency and expense of medical school. He has a lot of student load debt, but the difference is his will be paid off very soon. All he has to do is live at the level they were living when he was in residency while paying off his debt (less than 1 yr at his salary), then enjoy his efforts in school paying off after that.

That's the biggest difference between medicine and aviation. There is no more big payoff in aviation. The smaller payoff that is still there doesn't come until much later in your career.

 

[jetwash]

At least the information is getting out.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/must-read/mikes-blog-1-pilots-food-stamps


In case you haven't see his new movie Michael Moore does interviews with regional airline pilots who are telling him about being on food stamps.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

For those having a hard time financially, don't forget Angel Food Ministries. $30 for a 30 day supply of food.

Never heard of them, but good to keep in mind for the future.

 

[CA1900]

Maybe this FO with 5 kids doesn't want to be an old man before he has kids. maybe he would like Grandkids one day. How long should we wait?

Until he can do it without a government subsidy! If that means finding another line of work, so be it. Life's full of choices.

Why should I, who doesn't have kids, be paying to feed his, so he can have them and be an airline pilot at the same time? I made a conscious decision not to have children because I was fully aware of my income level working my way up in this stupid business. To consciously and deliberately become dependent on government food assistance by having kids you can't afford is grossly irresponsible.

No pilot should have to be forced to never have a child just because they chose to become an airline pilot.

Then the solution is to get wages up, as you mentioned. But until that happens, yes, a pilot should be forced to make choices. Welfare's purpose is to get people on their feet when they fall on hard times, not to subsidize one family on the back of another. To take food off my table and give to someone who deliberately created a giant family he could not support is unconscionable.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

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