Anything less than doh would be a travesty for meh pilots. Not one of them should have to be a copilot again at a commuter. Doh would at least ensure protection for the meh captains and soften the blow for the copilots. My buddy, a 2000 hire, would make 80something an hr.as a 170 ca. I know most left at meh are in the 15-20 year range, and my heart goes out to you. What a nightmare!
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5 frontier airbuses going to mke
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hockeypilot44
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Date of hire will not happen. Personally, I don't think any of them will even be captain in the end. A judge ruled that for the purpose of arbitration, about 120 of them will be considered active, non-pay, non-benefit status. I don't know what that means exactly, but I take it to mean they bring no jobs to the table. The rumor going around Republic is that the most senior Midwest pilot will be junior to the most junior Republic captain. I wish them the best, but it's time for the Midwest pilots to realize their jobs are gone and aren't coming back. This arbitration was their only chance and the judge wouldn't even let them present their case.
Secret Squirrel
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SCABS? So did you declare a private strike that only you guys knew about?
eightdriver
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As long as guys are willing to fly 100 seat airplanes for $20-30 an hour the race to the bottom will continue. Back in the day when you had to actually build time to get an ATP so you could fly charter or for a commuter, you wouldn't stand for this bull$hit pay. But now that you can get a job flying jets with 300 hours then I guess $20-30 an hour seems pretty good. Pilot groups in general are greedy and companies are cashing in on this big time. What happened to us at Midwest is just plain wrong and now that Republic and B.B got away with it, all the other narrowbody domestic pilots should be worried as well.
SpinDoctor
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It's a good thing you were here to explain it all. Because I was thinking "if furloughing 1500 pilots from the RAH list, removing all ERJ's/CRJ's and closing every base but IND makes Republic more viable what is wrong with that?" and "if all the RJ's operated by RAH are gone and replaced by a 'mainline' with larger aircraft what is wrong with that?"
Yep, nobody likes to change bases, or to start commuting, but hey maybe some people at RAH might actually want to go to MCO for personal reasons." Oh wait, they closed that base. Maybe they will want to go to PIT, oh wait they closed that base too then re-opened it. Or maybe they will want to go FLL, oh wait that one closed too. Or how about BOS? Maybe FWA? Or how about DEN again?
Could it possibly matter if it is your base? Or will you just say that it will make RAH more viable if your base closes? Would you take a pay cut if it makes RAH more viable? I'm just wondering where you draw the line in the sand. If the 30/7 rule goes away and makes RAH more viable will you care? Junior manning? 7 days off a month instead of 11/12? But, but, but, but it makes RAH more viable!!!
CitationLover
Aw, Nuts!
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I called it a scab flight and didn't call him one. I guess reading comprehension isn't your forte. How was those verbal scores on the SAT?
Secret Squirrel
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I am sorry. You are going to have to define "SCAB FLIGHT" for me. But I have a hard time imagining any definition where SCAB could be used when the term STRIKE was not also used. So back to my original question. When did you guys strike? It is just a different variation (a horrible horrible variation) of what has gone on since 2001. Mainline jobs going away and a subcontractor taking over the flying for the same company.
starchkr
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Soooo, what's wrong with the 319's flying "old" Midwest routes? Are you saying they were crappy routes? The 319 will be bale to reach destinations from MKE that Midwest could not do directly, so that is a plus. The staple to the botom of SWA...huh, there was a good idea, i'm not even going to comment anymore on that, it's over.
eightdriver...I'm sorry that Midwest is going away, and in no way am i defending anyone here, but...why doesn't eveyone realize that BB and RAH didn't do to Midwest what they think they did. When the current course was set in motion, RAH didn't own Midwest, rather TPG and NWA did. So why wouldn't you be mad at them? I don't understand the philosophy of blaming your current owners for the mistakes and choices by your previous owners. That would be like F9 blaming Menke for Potter's poor choices back in the day.
Because BB had his hands in decisions at Midwest up to a year prior to the merger. Many of these decision like returning 717s were done while he working this plan.
By no means were Tim and his buddies not idiots but the final destruction was orchestrated by the Rev.
CitationLover
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Those who do not learn history are bound to repeat it. We shall see your comments when Bedfords foot is at your throats.
StaySeated
IBT does not represent ME
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"Because BB had his hands in decisions at Midwest up to a year prior to the merger. Many of these decision like returning 717s were done while he working this plan."
I understand that Midwest ALPA believe that the 717's were given back, while the court recently stated that Boeing took them back.
I am not trying to start a war of words here, but if Midwest ALPA was accurate and the 717's were given back, why could they provide proof during the arbitration last week?
The judge basically said that the routes no longer exist and boeing took the aircraft back as a condition of the leases that allowed them to move all 25 to an airline in mexico. This is rather important, considering the premise of the arbitration. How could there be no proof supporting midwest alpa's position?
I understand that Midwest ALPA believe that the 717's were given back, while the court recently stated that Boeing took them back.
I am not trying to start a war of words here, but if Midwest ALPA was accurate and the 717's were given back, why could they provide proof during the arbitration last week?
The judge basically said that the routes no longer exist and boeing took the aircraft back as a condition of the leases that allowed them to move all 25 to an airline in mexico. This is rather important, considering the premise of the arbitration. How could there be no proof supporting midwest alpa's position?
It's my understanding that ALPA didn't argue this point. Their argument in this grievance was off the arbitrators last ruling on outsourcing being ok because it was a codeshare. The argument was you can't codeshare with yourself. They weren't prepared for the argument involving any influence of Republic management on Midwest business plan prior to the merger.
I really don't know how they would be able to get this information. If YX was a public company it would be easier but they weren't. There maybe some legal recourse with arguing Republic influence with the SLI mediator.
With BB history it would be naive to think that he wasn't influencing things to decrease his expense when his plan was complete.
UND_Sioux
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A lot of things would make more sense if everybody remembered that Republic Airways Holdings is not an airline. It is a holdings company that happens to own airlines. Midwest Airlines Inc. was/is codesharing with Republic Airlines Inc. It doesn't legally matter if TPG owns Midwest Airlines or RAH owns Midwest Airlines. In the end, it is one company codesharing with another. The fact that they are both owned by the same holding company is not important in the eyes of the law.
Did you know that Coca-Cola pays Coca-Cola bottling to manufacture and bottle its product. Coca-Cola pays other people to distribute it. Coca-Cola has basically become a holdings company that really only does marketing for its product. That is all Midwest will become, ticketing and marketing....and ticketing and marketing may end up at Frontier.
Did you know that Coca-Cola pays Coca-Cola bottling to manufacture and bottle its product. Coca-Cola pays other people to distribute it. Coca-Cola has basically become a holdings company that really only does marketing for its product. That is all Midwest will become, ticketing and marketing....and ticketing and marketing may end up at Frontier.
RAH is paying Boeing $600,000 per plane on the last nine 717s to terminate the leases early. (from his own lips during the Q2 conference call) That's basically pissing away $5,4 mil just to get rid of the Midwest pilots.
Exactly.........
ultrarunner
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But the long-term savings are incredible. As you pointed out, the pilots get furloughed, but you also eliminate an entire airframe that you don't have to support anymore.
PropPiedmont
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I was looking at tickets for Turkey Day week from PHX to CLE. Believe it or not, the highest price ticket I found was on Frontier.
PHX-DEN 2 hour sit A319 Departs PHX at 7:30am
DEN-MKE 3 hour sit A319
MKE-CLE on a E135 Arrives CLE at 7:47pm
Travel time 10 hrs 17 mins
Cost $643 Round trip
BB has got this figured out.
Return travel time is the same. But, a 4 hour sit in MKE.
PHX-DEN 2 hour sit A319 Departs PHX at 7:30am
DEN-MKE 3 hour sit A319
MKE-CLE on a E135 Arrives CLE at 7:47pm
Travel time 10 hrs 17 mins
Cost $643 Round trip
BB has got this figured out.
Return travel time is the same. But, a 4 hour sit in MKE.
Last edited:
freightrash
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It's dumb question. Who wants go to CLE from PHX on F9?
PHX is US hub and CLE is CO hub. Same dumb question, who wants to
travel on Continental from MKE to DEN?
PropPiedmont
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There was no question.
Orbitz offers F9 tickets. What I think you meant to ask is, "Why would anyone pay $650 and spend over 10 hours to travel from PHX to CLE?"
Always have to check all available options.
ultrarunner
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You wouldn't. You'd fly non-stop on CO and be there in 3.5 hours!
StaySeated
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Not celebrating the facts in any way, but shortly after his clarification of the exit payments he stated that they also have $20 Million in parts that will be sold.
Bedford purchased F9 for approximately $109 Million.
He then paid himself back the $40 Million that he loaned us in DIP.
He also gets a share of the $28 Million dollar unsecured claim.
He also gets his hands on $160 Million that is currently restricted F9 cash.
Not bad.
With midwest, he paid $35 Million.
Approximately $19 Million of that $35 is restructuring costs (including the 717 returns).
$6 Million goes to TPG and $10 Million goes to cover a line of credit.
He walks away with the operation, $20 Million in parts, and $40 Million in restricted YX cash.
$60 million to buy F9 and essentially no outlay to purchase YX.
ultrarunner
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starchkr
New Bus driver
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No-one has ever said we are the cheapest, in some cases the fastest either, but we still seem to fill those birds up to 85%+ capacity on a continuing basis (and most of the time with fares just like those).
I also would like to know what is wrong with $643? Everyone sits on here and beotches about how low fares are killing every airline, but when it comes to riding on 3 different planes between 3 different cities we complain and moan about a price that is actually respectable. So here ya go, finally a price that actually may pay for the flight itself versus us complaining about how a $79 RT between PHX-and CLE can't pay the bills on our respective airlines. Hmmmmmmm....
Popeye0537
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And he pays FOs $37/hr, most of which, haven't even attained that level. Yes, he is a man to be admired.
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