Jetblue pay increase?

[Dizel8]

It is just about stagnant, longevity raise is less than 1.4%, there is no COLA, there never has been at Jetblue.

Yeah, I know, one would think they eventually would realize that inflation exist.

 

[pipejockey]

It is just about stagnant, longevity raise is less than 1.4%, there is no COLA, there never has been at Jetblue.

Yeah, I know, one would think they eventually would realize that inflation exist.

This changes my opinion about this contract. How long is it for? 4, 5 years? These new pay rates seem to average about 12% increase for the 320 but if you take into consideration a 2.5% inflation rate for the length of the contract, then after 4 to 5 years everyone is back to their earning power of today, before the raises. The 190 seems to average about 25% increase today, so after 4 to 5 years they fare better with about 12% to 15% better earning power than today.

It's a shame, so close to being a successful pay raise, but without COLA how can this be considered a success? Especially for the 320.

 

[Stanky]

This changes my opinion about this contract. How long is it for? 4, 5 years? These new pay rates seem to average about 12% increase for the 320 but if you take into consideration a 2.5% inflation rate for the length of the contract, then after 4 to 5 years everyone is back to their earning power of today, before the raises. The 190 seems to average about 25% increase today, so after 4 to 5 years they fare better with about 12% to 15% better earning power than today.

It's a shame, so close to being a successful pay raise, but without COLA how can this be considered a success? Especially for the 320.

I'm not going to disagree with you. I think most of us would like to see some sort of COLA increase built in to our deal.

The problem is that only 37% of us actually voted for the mechanism required to get a CBA that has COLA.

We are being promised a yearly review of our pay and benefits to reset us to "Peer set average". I have little faith that they actually intend to reset the entire contract every 12 months, there's plenty of proof that they will delay anything that costs them as long as they can get away with it, but I would expect a resetting of scale every year and a half to two years.

It ain't perfect (or even close), but until we can get more guys to vote for a union, it's all we have, and this deal is a heck of a lot better than what we have now.

Except for the workrules (FAR's), retirement, LOL, Long and short term disability, vacation, training pay, per diem, crew meals, crappy hotels, flight attendants who believe that they run the show, the ever present blue gloves and their intended use, policy change via email, no real representation for the pilot group, a culture that makes us subservient to everyone, and the stupid looking and ill-fitting uniform, this is a great place to work. I'm just not sure that it's a great career.

I'm being sincere. I like it here, but I would like it so much more if I was treated and supported like a pilot instead of being the same as the new-hire ramper who will only be on the property for a few months.

I'm grateful for my job when I have so many friends who are looking for one right now, but I wish the industry would devolve into what it was 20 years ago, when a captain didn't pack his own lunch and certainly didn't have to hold down another job or two just so he could pay for his kids medical bills and still manage to save some for retirement.

In short, JB is a good place to work, and they've done an amazing thing in giving us a huge raise to bring us up to industry average, but we've got a long way to go. By the way, for the record, we just reset to average, which means that we've been below average for quite awhile, contrary to the previous statements made by our benenvolent "Leadership".

I think that's the longest sentence that I've ever written. Perhaps I should put down the glass.

 

[pipejockey]

In short, JB is a good place to work, and they've done an amazing thing in giving us a huge raise to bring us up to industry average, but we've got a long way to go. By the way, for the record, we just reset to average, which means that we've been below average for quite awhile, contrary to the previous statements made by our benenvolent "Leadership".

Ok, I'm a bit confused. I can agree that the 320 rates have been brought up to around industry average, but the 190 rates are well above average compared to the only other carrier I know of flying that aircraft which is USAir. Their rates are sinful. And compared to carriers flying the 175 and crj 900 your rates are well above them as well. So are they figuring that the 190 rates are industry average? I mean don't get me wrong. Your new 190 rates should be at the bottom end of industry average, its just that the other carriers are unconscionably low.

For instance 2nd year JB 190 FO rate according to cavemans numbers on page 3 is 61K at min guarantee compared to the other emb 190 and crj 900 operators paying FO's about 40K at min guarantee and at MAX longevity of about 8 years. CA's at 6 years and min guarantee is 111K while the others are at a pathetic and embarrassing 70K except USAir at 80K.

Also, what were the requirements to get the COLA in the contract if I may ask?

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

The problem is that only 37% of us actually voted for the mechanism required to get a CBA that has COLA.

.

You don't need a CBA to get COLA.

 

[Headfake14]

Pipejocky:

To put in contrast...a 3rd year JB 190 FO will be making more than a Chautublic 190 captain. The pure hourly rate is a buck or two more...but with our 150% credit after 78hrs, JB FOs will be on top easily.

 

[Stanky]

Ok, I'm a bit confused. I can agree that the 320 rates have been brought up to around industry average, but the 190 rates are well above average compared to the only other carrier I know of flying that aircraft which is USAir. Their rates are sinful. And compared to carriers flying the 175 and crj 900 your rates are well above them as well. So are they figuring that the 190 rates are industry average? I mean don't get me wrong. Your new 190 rates should be at the bottom end of industry average, its just that the other carriers are unconscionably low.

For instance 2nd year JB 190 FO rate according to cavemans numbers on page 3 is 61K at min guarantee compared to the other emb 190 and crj 900 operators paying FO's about 40K at min guarantee and at MAX longevity of about 8 years. CA's at 6 years and min guarantee is 111K while the others are at a pathetic and embarrassing 70K except USAir at 80K.

Also, what were the requirements to get the COLA in the contract if I may ask?

The company looked at peer set average as a function of GTOW and not type. That means that we compare ourselves to similar airplanes such as the DC9, B717, 737-200's, etc.

The 190 is a mainline airplane now and a direct replacement for this size aircraft. As a former DC9 driver, I can tell you that it weighs more than a DC9-30, flies higher, faster, and farther, and should have payrates that reflect that.

USAir's rates are horrible and are a direct result of bankruptcy and a failure to merge senority lists, Republic's rates just suck, and this is not a pay for departure feeder type of operation for us.

Like I said, I'm happy for the new rates, but we were the launch customer, and therefore responsible for them being so low in the first place.

 

[Stanky]

You don't need a CBA to get COLA.

Since we have no real power to negotiate without one, we don't really have any say over what they give us. Every Union contract that I've ever had did have an upward scale adjustment every year.

How do we get COLA without a contract if the company doesn't want to give it to us?

 

[Blue Dude]

Ok, I'm a bit confused. I can agree that the 320 rates have been brought up to around industry average, but the 190 rates are well above average compared to the only other carrier I know of flying that aircraft which is USAir. Their rates are sinful. And compared to carriers flying the 175 and crj 900 your rates are well above them as well. So are they figuring that the 190 rates are industry average? I mean don't get me wrong. Your new 190 rates should be at the bottom end of industry average, its just that the other carriers are unconscionably low.

No, our 190 rates are now merely industry average, for a *mainline* aircraft of that capacity and weight. It is well above industry average for that particular type because *we* launched that type far, far below industry average. Then everyone else modeled their pay after ours. It is still by far the worst single break of faith this company has ever had with its pilots.

 

[B6Busdriver]

Essentially the 320 rates have remained unchanged since the big raise of 2001 that I was not here for. Yes the rates have increased a few percentage points but with the company playing a shell game for the last few years any raises amounted to nothing. So it has taken 8 years to get any kind of meaningful raise. Wow, the BOBS told us "at least we have an opportunity to have our pay and benefits reviewed every year."

So, all you non-voters, the question is how long will you be satisfied with the staus quo? Will we have to go through a union vote (I will vote yes...again) to get the company off its high horse? When will this group wake up?