Retiring NWA Captain Sums It Up

[jonjuan]

Remember that we fly businessmen and women in the backs of our overfull jets. They are shucking their crap from one hotel to the next just like us. A lot of the time with more time away from home and less pay.
Disagree with that statement, fine, but I have a father-in-law that has been doing it for 40 years, and he is gone more than I am.

This profession needs to be fixed, but there are worse places to be.

No kidding. My dad travels more than I do and while he usually gets an aisle seat and sometimes upgraded to F, when he gets to his hotel room, he's either on the phone or laptop, working. He's a professional consultant and like most of his masters degreed peers, makes $100K in a good year.

 

[crj567]

The original post in this thread did have a great point: I can't think of any other industry that has EVER stuck it to the employees so hard!

Just turn the clock back 10 yrs. Any major airline pilot could expect great retirement (even the rampers could back then.) Everyone had great pay and wonderful benefits.

Over the past decade, several major events have really challenged the DNA of the airlines, and the employees have wound up paying the costs in all cases.

It is a shame that mgmt. just can't figure out how to tack $10 to each ticket to keep something like stability available for their "valued team members." I just will never be able to understand why this industry always seems to see the employee (or his/her compensation) as the solution to every problem? Why the hell can't the passengers (who expect and demand a high level of safety/competence) pay a realistic price for what they buy? These people honestly think they should be able to fly a multi-million dollar aircraft across the country safely at nearly the speed of sound-and do so for $59 each way!

-Why is it really so tough to add a little bit to every fare to just maintain a safety net? And why the hell are the employees the only solution to every problem?

 

[d.fitz]

Why was a NWA Captain making $93.00/hr?

He was one of the "new math" test classes. His plumber makes more than he did??? I look forward to his posts in a year. We'll see how that Sears job goes!

The grass is always greener...

...I like the way he assumes he is one of the elite, but the "new" breed of airline pilot is an under-achiever. What's your degree in again?

Don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on your way out!

 

[trip]

Sears Holdings
(includes Kmart)
Broadline retailer
Altman's Z-score: 2.5
Cash on hand: $1.2 billion
Short-term debt: $956.0 million
Long-term debt: $1.5 billion
3,918 total stores
46 underperforming stores closed in fiscal year 2008.

 

[n89l]

I tried, they are laying off too!

 

[waka]

Good riddance bitter old man.

 

[Flopgut]

Here is an interesting fact: Our fellow RLA covered workgroup, railroad workers, had an unpleasant reduction in retirement monies forced on them in the 80's. It had the effect of raising their retirement age. Age 60 (with 30 years) was the normal retirement age. The changed rule still allowed for leaving at 60, but with a reduced amount of money. Rail union leaders never gave up on getting full retirement at age 60 (with 30 years) back, and (after a long fight) in 2002 they did!! That's right. The same year the ATSB turned down 7 airlines' loan applications, (including UAL's first) railroaders got their full retirement age back!

My pi$$ed off meter has been full scale since I learned this about two weeks ago. And I hope each of yours is now as well. Our union leaders couldn't be happier with 65 and they'll probably go for 70 sooner than they will challenge the RLA if we don't start jumping their case. Call your union leader right now (especially if it's John Prater) and kindly request they remove their head from their a$$ and fight for our rights. If we're to be covered by the RLA give us the benefits as well. If we don't get upside then release us from the RLA!

Did anybody get my point?

RLA (Railway Labor Act). As airline workers, we are covered by it. At the same instant our government was enabling the dismantling of our profession, they were shoring up rail workers' pay/retirement.

This needs to be topic 1; Our highest priority. The problem with age 65 is: if the age hadn't changed, this issue would be getting the attention it needs.

 

[bubbers44]

I found a way to enjoy all of my flying career. Starting with crop dusting, instructing, charter, jet charter, corporate then airlines. Ended up with the choice of all nighters on a B777 or single day trips to Tegucigalpa, Honduras flying a B757. I chose to sacrifice the money to enjoy the last 7 years flying from 11AM to 6PM on that beautiful 2 hr flight over Cuba to TGU. I think I would have become bitter too if I had chosen the bigger paycheck. I doubt if I was even legal for flying at night unless they count sim time. It was fun being a widebody intnl captain and not ever packing a suitcase. Choose your own destiny if you can and life is good. We got to keep our retirement too. Kind of glad United didn't hire me in 66. I would have missed all of that other fun stuff and the retirement money.

 

[xpdriver]

I call Bullsh*t you guys will fall for anything...........

 

[imacdog]

No kidding. My dad travels more than I do and while he usually gets an aisle seat and sometimes upgraded to F, when he gets to his hotel room, he's either on the phone or laptop, working. He's a professional consultant and like most of his masters degreed peers, makes $100K in a good year.

.....and when he has a really bad day at work, do 100+ people die?

 

[WSurf]

Airline Pilot: Great Job, sh$tty career!

 

[Snaab]

Sam told me a story. The young flight instructor is pounding the pattern in a basic trainer. Half watching his student and half thinking of getting a real flying job. Some twin-engine time, a little cross-country IFR. Boy would that be sweet, that would be real flying. Above him at 8,000 feet a freight-dog in a beat-up Beech Baron bounces along. Cursing the turbulence and the heat and the holes in the instrument panel, he thinks about one day getting a turbine job.​

At 18,000 feet the crew of a King Air are droning along on autopilot, enjoying the air-conditioned cockpit. But the noise and vibration of the propellers is annoying, and the turbine-twin will not climb out of all the weather. The lady PIC is close to a jet job, and keeps looking up above the tops of the building cumulus. At flight level 390 dinner is being served to the major airline captain. Life is sweet. But his schedule sucks again next month, stupid recurrent training, and the mustard for the steak is too spicy again. He looks out the windshield as a glint of sunlight catches his eye strangely above the horizon. "It's the space station," says the first officer. "Now that would be sweet."​

Floating over to a window, the astronaut looks down on the colorful blue and green quilt set amongst the void of space. A former fighter and test pilot, the Space Shuttle commander is picking out ground features as he orbits over middle America. "You see those two rivers, just east of the city?" he says. "There is a little airport down there. I first soloed in a Piper Cub right there."​

"Now that is real flying."​

Now, THAT is the coolest things I've read on FlightInfo. GREAT post!

 

[Fubijaakr]

If there ever was a dead horse that needed a routine beating, 65 is it.

Well, I guess if pissing in the wind makes you feel better, go for it.

 

[msmb]

From one pilot to another. Thank you and best of luck.

 

[Flopgut]

Well, I guess if pissing in the wind makes you feel better, go for it.

We need to keep the age 70 scavengers off the carcas.

Seriously, if age 65 had not been an option, or if it was the equivilent non improvement to all of us that it is to someone who hasn't been hired yet, what would we all be talking about? The answer to that question is the improvement we ALL need to be pushing for. And IMHO that is fighting the RLA. Please give your opinion Fubijakr: 02' legislation returned full retirement age of 60 back to rail workers. Does that not shock you? Although you might guess I think it should, my argument here is not to change the pilot retirement age back to 60. I'm trying to point out a huge disparity. I would appreciate you thoughts.

 

[SEVEN]

He'll b!tch at sears too.

:laugh: ......you said it. The grass ain't always greener on the other side.

 

[GuppyWN]

You guys are just jealous cause it isn't YOU retiring. I'll cut the guy some slack and give him the ability to vent a little steam. He's earned it.

Gup

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I worked at Sears during college selling batteries. That place blows.

 

[jetflier]

I suspect some BS from this guy. Although as a FNW guy he does make some note about our previous 75% SICK PAY bs that the senior FNW guys voted in to save their pensions. Good for him !..... the 2% sales commission plus the $7.50/hour he'll get at sears will suppliment his $11,000/month pension,...plus his Sears Employee Discount!!!Weeeeeeee!!!!! (maybe he can buy a new riding lawnmower for his "hobby farm"!!!

 

[ugasucks]

Go cry me a river and enjoy your pension unlike so many others that have lost theirs.

 

[Whataburger]

You guys are just jealous cause it isn't YOU retiring. I'll cut the guy some slack and give him the ability to vent a little steam. He's earned it.

Gup

Not quite.

The life expectancy of a male right now is 74 yrs old. I would prefer not to die in 9ish years.

 

[EMBpilot]

It always surprises me how some pilots get so burned out and hate everything about the job. They need to realize that working with them is not the best experience for the rest of the crew.

If you hate it this much why not resign, take advantage of the freedoms in this country, start a business and make a billion dollars?

 

[SpauldingSmails]

:laugh: ......you said it. The grass ain't always greener on the other side.

Yeap... In any case, I'm glad he decided to hang it up. Somewhere, there's an F.O. who will be moving into the left seat and probably be grateful for it.

 

[Crossky]

profession. We made good money, had considerable time off and the benefits were to
brag about.That is no longer the case. My Plumber makes more a year now than I do. His labor rate alone is $95.00/hr when he set my kitchen sink last May and he's a high school drop out. His yearly
salary is based on a 160 hour work month (40 a week) --My $93.00/hr and annual salary is based on an 80 hour month (hard time in the air) which doesn't include all the on duty and time I am away from home.

I'm calling BS. What NWA CA makes $93/hr? A year 7 DC-9 FO makes $93/hr.

Plumbers don't make $95/hour either. That might be the billing rate, it depends on where you live. But they make about half that. I'm not saying they don't make good money, but not $190K/yr., based on 160 hrs a month, 2000 hrs a year. Maybe if you're the owner of a plumbing company, a plumbing contractor. Didn't we all find this out when 'plumber joe' campaigned for McCain?

 

[Dan Roman]

I'm guessing he's an ex Eastern pilot who was lucky to get hired at NWA even if he never made Captain.
There are a lot more people out there that have made a good life out of a career flying airplanes than the minority who focus on all that's wrong and miss what is good.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

93.00 per hr may be after he divides his rate by two to compensate for the fact that most workers work twice the amount of paid hrs in a month.

186.00 would be the rate then. I have always divided my hourly rate by two to see what it equates to for a "real" job.

 

[nonstop]

93.00 per hr may be after he divides his rate by two to compensate for the fact that most workers work twice the amount of paid hrs in a month.

186.00 would be the rate then. I have always divided my hourly rate by two to see what it equates to for a "real" job.

That's accurate if you are crediting 86:40 a month.

A typical 40 hour work week = ~2080 hours a year.

Take Delta for example, with a minimum reserve guarantee of 70 hours. That's only 840 hours a year.

Therefor dividing it by 2.5 is more accurate. If you, like me, don't equate sitting in an airport or Holiday Inn Express to "time off" then you can divide it by our rig, which is 3.5.

So Delta 747/777 CA ($201/flight hour) using a 2.5-3.5 divisor, currently yields between $57-$80 an hour at year 12+. 747/777 FO ($137/flight hour) at year 12 is $39-$57.

 

[Whine Lover]

This post ( NWA Captain's rant) is several years old.

I believe I first read it about 5-7 years ago (?).

If I'm not mistaken $93.00/hr was about right for DC-9 Captain's pay at NWA during the Bankruptcy which shoved abhorrent rates down the NWA guys throats under threat of an 1113C action.




YKW

 

[cldsfr79]

Well , The good news is, Today I officially Retire from Northwest Airlines and I was hired last week for a Service Advisor job in the automotive division of Sears

Wow. To all those grumpy pi$$ed off pilots out there......

Please retire or quit. Don't sit here unitl you're 65. I don't need to sit hear and listen about how much you hate your job and company.

Flying for a living has nothing to do with WANTING to be gone from the family, WANTING to eat meals in 30 seconds, WANTING to live in hotels half your life, WANTING to have reduced rest.

Flying is supposed to about doing it because you love it. Because you don't want a 9 to 5 job in a cubical, because you want to see the world, because it's fun, because your passion and your job are one and the same.

If you hate flying, hate your company, hate your life style, then leave. I'm soooo tired of seeing and hearing grumpy pilots. Leave. If money is the only thing you care about, go be a plumber or what ever. There are too many guys out there who would kill to fly for the airlines or have a professional flying job. I don't need to see any of you guys in the flight deck anymore. Leave the flying for the guys who want to be there.

Life is what you make of it, and not what it makes of you. Yeah things get rough, but you always look for the silver lining.

 

[d.fitz]

So Delta 747/777 CA ($201/flight hour) using a 2.5-3.5 divisor, currently yields between $57-$80 an hour at year 12+.

747/777 FO ($137/flight hour) at year 12 is $39-$57.

Ok. My friend works for a major aerospace company heading up a system design group for a new aircraft. He works 57 hours per week on average. Last year, in his BEST month, he had 6 days off. Usually he had 4 days off per month. He is at work 10 -12 hours per day every day, and his stress level is commensurate.

He's been an engineer for 15 years. He just got a promotion and a 16% raise. He said "Now I'm in range of making almost $100k" - with 10 to 15 hours of overtime per week!! That would equate to $35.85 per hour. ($95,000 per year / (53 hours * 50 weeks)). That's lower than everything you quoted above!

Yeah, He's home every night! Just enough time to eat, have a few beers, and go to sleep.

Ya' know what? It's a job! Just like flying! Some people like it, some people hate it. But the cool thing is, you don't have to continue doing it! That is why I am not sitting in the cubicle next to my friend any more.

My advice is: If you don't like this job, don't waste any time. Find something you do like and go do it!