Citation; dry tanks 4th approach gear up

[GravityHater]

http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/fuel-exhaustion-cited-in-citation-ii-crash/

discussed already?

 

[cherry20's]

Hadn't seen this one yet... Sounds like a pretty simple investigation though. They ran out of gas on the 4th approach to the same airport. Isn't there a reason we file alternate's?

 

[captainv]

-aircraft was leased to a Dominican Republic-based airline

-left engine quit on third approach

-right engine quit on fourth

-no injuries to the pilots or pax

can't wait too read the CVR transcripts.

"Hey, the left engine just quit."

"Hmmm, still can't see the runway. How 'bout we go around and try it one more time, on a single engine?"

"Sounds good to me."

Man, those guys got lucky.

 

[ultrarunner]

At least they did not have to sweat the post-crash fire.

 

[Chewbacca]

Amazing, its 2009 and we still have s#$t like this going on.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

That's unbelieveable. How does anyone operate a plane in such a reckless manner. That no one perished is a miracle.

 

[Gear Up!]

Its a miracle they survived. When where they going to decide to go somewhere else? That last approach must of been the best one the crew ever flew.. Right down to the "ground"

 

[CA1900]

That no one perished is a miracle.

Eh... not really. Much easier to survive when there's no post-crash fire....... :0

 

[phr8dawg]

I wonder how his language skills were? I happened to leave the Islip area some 20 years ago just before that 707 from Central America ran out of gas on a missed out of JFK. (Aeria-air, or something like that) The Captain did not know how to use the words "minimum fuel advisory." He didn't know how to declare he was in trouble.

 

[LJ45]

I wonder how his language skills were? I happened to leave the Islip area some 20 years ago just before that 707 from Central America ran out of gas on a missed out of JFK. (Aeria-air, or something like that) The Captain did not know how to use the words "minimum fuel advisory." He didn't know how to declare he was in trouble.

minimum fuel... how about emergency, pan pan pan or mayday. They shouldn't be flying a airplane if they don't know how to say that.

It's not a language problem, it is stupidity.

 

[CA1900]

I wonder how his language skills were? I happened to leave the Islip area some 20 years ago just before that 707 from Central America ran out of gas on a missed out of JFK. (Aeria-air, or something like that)...

That was Avianca flight 52, and there was definitely a problem with phraseology. Interesting reading:

http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR91-04.pdf

 

[F/O]

Withdraw if you will from the usual tendency on flightinfo to "pile on" and just look at what happened here objectively.

I don't think there's anyway, anyhow that you can't label these dudes as complete numbskulls...and that's putting it mildly....

 

[pilotgolfer]

Withdraw if you will from the usual tendency on flightinfo to "pile on" and just look at what happened here objectively.

I don't think there's anyway, anyhow that you can't label these dudes as complete numbskulls...and that's putting it mildly....

Have you ever had the weather at your alternate get really bad, really quickly? It happens. Just wait for the report to come out. There's got to be a piece of the puzzle missing.

 

[cjdriver]

I wonder if this is a Dominican crew not experienced in winter northeast weather. Anyone know where the crew came from?

 

[bizjet800]

Not that they shouldn't have gone somewhere else after the first or second approach--but in the back of their minds was probably the threat of our wonderful US CBP waiting with a $5000 fine had they gone somewhere else!

 

[BoilerUP]

I wonder if this is a Dominican crew not experienced in winter northeast weather. Anyone know where the crew came from?

ILM is Wilmington, NC...not the northeast by any means and not all that far from MYR (62nm), EWN (64nm), FAY (65nm), RDU (105nm) and had to fly right past CHS to get to ILM.


They had safe options other than 4 frickin' approaches to an airport below minimums...but the draw to ILM was Customs. They and their passengers are lucky it didn't cost them their lives.

 

[LJ45]

Not that they shouldn't have gone somewhere else after the first or second approach--but in the back of their minds was probably the threat of our wonderful US CBP waiting with a $5000 fine had they gone somewhere else!

So you are saying you are not allowed to divert for weather? Why would you continue if weather at the destination is below minimums? Couldn't you call customs and advise them of the situation? I had to divert before and 30 mins before landing called customs and we had no problems.

 

[ultrarunner]

...but in the back of their minds was probably the threat of our wonderful US CBP waiting with a $5000 fine had they gone somewhere else!

Naaa....if you divert, you divert....

The crew could have banged a left turn at any point while they traveled north and landed...

Get on the ground and call customs. Not a big deal.

 

[bizjet800]

Not that they shouldn't have gone somewhere else after the first or second approach--but in the back of their minds was probably the threat of our wonderful US CBP waiting with a $5000 fine had they gone somewhere else!

I know diverting is not that big of a deal. I was just commenting on the arrogance of our wonderful
US-CBP, or lack thereof!

 

[ultrarunner]

I know diverting is not that big of a deal. I was just commenting on the arrogance of our wonderful
US-CBP, or lack thereof!

Yeah, couldn't agree more on that biz!

 

[SNAFU22]

Amazing, its 2009 and we still have s#$t like this going on.

2009 and so on...Unfortunately there will always be knuckle heads who will continue to scratch up the jet doing the same dumb sh!t, over and over and over again.

 

[getonit]

2009 and so on...Unfortunately there will always be knuckle heads who will continue to scratch up the jet doing the same dumb sh!t, over and over and over again.

I disagree with your statement, this is a whole new level of dumb sh!t. I have read a reasonable number of accident reports and this takes dumb to a different level. Not different dumb, but dumb dumb.
Just give it time someone will do something dumber.

 

[Gear Up!]

Agreed

 

[bizjet800]

I disagree with your statement, this is a whole new level of dumb sh!t. I have read a reasonable number of accident reports and this takes dumb to a different level. Not different dumb, but dumb dumb.
Just give it time someone will do something dumber.

He probably said, "I am only human Harry!" That after limo driver Lloyd drove them 1/6 the distance in the wrong direction.

 

[LJ45]

this is from the NTSB report...WOW !!!

The airplane was examined by a Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) inspector who responded to the accident site. The airplane received skin damage to the underside of the fuselage and several puncture holes into the pressure vessel. The pilot reported to the FAA inspector on scene, as well as to a National Transportation Safety Board investigator, that they had "ran out of fuel." They had attempted three instrument landing system (ILS) approaches to runway 24, however due to the fog at the airport they were unable to see the runway environment. On the third missed approach the No. 1 engine shut down and the pilots requested a vector from air traffic control (ATC) for another approach to KILM. The pilot stated to ATC that they were low on fuel. While being vectored for the fourth approach, the No. 2 engine shut down and the pilots requested an immediate turn to the airport; they were able to locate the center of the airport on their global positioning system (GPS) and "aimed the airplane at the intersection of the runways." Approximately 50 feet above ground level (agl), the pilots saw a row of lights, paralleled the lights, landed gear up on the departure end of runway 6, overran the runway, and impacted several light stands for runway 24, coming to rest 2,242 feet past the point of the initial touchdown.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Holy SHEEET!

Talk about consideration for those on the ground.

 

[CelticCitation]

Just over 1000NM, with 7 people (with crew), had to be pretty close to max range in a Cit. II. Three aproaches? they had to have the low fuel lights on for two of them.

 

[ultrarunner]

That trip is a no-brainer at normal altitudes. Had that plane been RVSM equipped, they likely could have shot 10 more approaches before they bellied it in!

 

[CelticCitation]

Was this a Bravo, or an older Cit. II? An older II would have been max range with 5 pax.

Max TO- 13,300
Empty wt ~9,000
7 people ~1300

Leaves 3000 for fuel, about 3 hours worth at 370kts. Flightaware shows the leg took almost six hours to tanks dry. Can a Bravo fly that long with that many people, assuming less fuel because of the pax, or did it depart with full fuel? Either way, it seems like more endurance than I would have guessed for any C-550.

 

[BoilerUP]

No way we could do 1000nm with 7 passengers in our C-II unless we had a monster tailwind...then again, we don't have the gross weight mod and do have a fairly heavy BOW.