UAL Liquidation?

[CrimsonEclipse]

Wow are we really this lost as a people?

'fraid so.

CE

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

Some outfits thought to be "too important to fail" are long since gone.

Some that have been long thought to be "circling the drain" are still here with us. USAir has been going out of business since 1991.

You never know...

Nu

 

[contrail67]

Not to make light of this notion, nor to treat it with some sense of detached amusement, but has anyone out there heard about United ceasing operations sometime next month? I know this is a sensational statement (not that one would expect that to happen on this website) but we have had some company management types (CAL) make remarks along these lines and just last night a furloughed UAL pilot stated the same thing.

Anyone else hear about this?

So ...do you just get bored and then post stupid things?....do you have any credible source other than a pissed off furloughed pilot?

 

[contrail67]

In my mind (not talking about the people losing their jobs and careers...just talking moving people and planes business here) losing United will be a good thing for other airlines. Others will pick up the routes and people and thus may be able to charge higher fares which will equal profits..expansion...more hiring..etc. Yeah it would suck for those involved losing thier jobs but it has happened to other airline in the past it can happen to United...sad but the industry will move on as if it were never here.

Losing SWA would be a good thing too.

 

[iflyhigh]

Never so Never everyone.

I hate to see any airline go out of business. But it was been proven, with PanAm, Eastern, Braniff, TWA, and many more that airlines can and do go out of business.

Who remains standing in the next five years remains to be seen. You can probably pick a few that you know are certainity for sure, but others its a gamble. Being former UAL, I would hate to see them go out of business due to bad management. Before BK it was a great company, with alot of good people. Its unforunate that management can destroy morale and line their pocket books as they do it.

I wish all my friends at UAL luck, that includes those that are being furloughed. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your families.

Don't worry US Air is not doing much better than UAL. Only time will tell if they stay in existance.

 

[maxblast72]

Bailing out the Big 3 automakers vs bailing out United are two different animals. I couldn't believe that Ford would even be for the bailout since they are the best positioned out of the big 3. You would think that they would want GM or Chrysler to disappear. Supposedly their supply chains are too tied together to let one company go out of business without hurting the other two and the Big 3 were successful in scaring the government into a bailout package.

In the airline industry, the failure of one large airline would dramaticly improve the remaining airline's RASM overnight and probably prevent any other failures.

I am personally against all bailouts. Bad decisions/behavior shouldn't be rewarded with a bailout. Weaker companies should go away and be replaced with stronger companies or not replaced at all if there isn't enough demand for the product being produced.

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

Good news and bad news here.

First the bad news. The next airline that can't pay its bills will go straight to Ch. 7, as there will be no DIP financing available.

The good news is that executives such as Glenn Tilton can profit handsomely from this. Even I know that Glenn has no business even trying to manage a corner lemonade stand, much less an airline. I told him this, and he seemed to accept it. I suggested making his departure profitable by parting out the airline to save face from a Ch. 7 and to also line his pockets as a sort of severance package.

Sounds like he is taking my advice. Since Glenn and I will both be out of the airline business, I am thinking about partnering with him in the banking and finance sector. That industry seems to be filled with executives of the same competence level and lack of moral compass. We should do well there.

 

[Tweaker]

Harrumph harrumph! I say, good show Frankie, my boy. So right, you know.

 

[fullsail]

Didn't the CEO of Independance Air predict the impending and immediate demise of UAL in 2002? Where is that "expert" now? Nostradamas (sp?) he was not.

 

[clickclickboom]

Oken Skies would fill some of the gaps and the govt would fast track or even in some cases offer short term subsidies to airlines willing to step in and restore domestic routes.

Bailout? No Way it will never happen

 

[dispatchguy]

I would say that Tilton couldnt even run a whore house...

 

[Truckdriver]

First the bad news. The next airline that can't pay its bills will go straight to Ch. 7, as there will be no DIP financing available.

Don't forget about foreign airlines interests here. I'm sure that Lufthansa would pony up some cash for an equity stake in the company. UAL just disappearing is highly unlikely in my opinion.

Wouldn't it be funny if UAL said they needed to liquidate and then Lufthansa stepped in and provided enough cash for JetBlue to buy them. Maybe that is why they are parking all the 737's so they can have an all 319/320 narrowbody fleet. If CAL was in the mix you would think they would have parked the Airbus fleet.

 

[contrail67]

The thing is..United is not even considering liquidating they are in a good position for the future....this is just another thread..probably from another failed interview.

 

[Truckdriver]

The thing is..United is not even considering liquidating they are in a good position for the future....this is just another thread..probably from another failed interview.

?????

I would think even if we knew for a fact that UAL were not liquidating, those who failed an interview the last year would be feeling very lucky. Those who failed are still working at their old jobs while those who didn't are now selling nails at Home Depot.

 

[ualdriver]

Where in the world do you guys get this stuff?

 

[waveflyer]

contrail seems to be living in the past- where he had the most coveted job in aviation.

to my generation- UAL's just sad- part of a group of major airlines that has consistently sold out- albeit less than AMR, AAA, and DAL. But it is sad that you all haven't moved on and AWAY from UAL- if only our seniority system didn't prevent jumping off a sinking ship.

 

[greenlight]

follow this link to UAL's investor relations page and compare the 17 Dec memo and the 3rd quarter earnings report.

http://ir.united.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=83680&p=irol-IRHome

Cash declined $.9B to $2.0B. Somewhere else I read that the value of owned assets declined from $3.0B to $2.0B (can't find the reference). All of this in one quarter. Questions I would be asking are:

How much cash does it take to run United day to day? Somewhere I thought I read $1.5B but I don't know.

What are the next triggers for credit card hold backs? These triggered a great deal of the above losses when the cash dropped below $2.5B.

good luck

GL

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The only problem with a behemoth like UAUA going under is there are way to many banks, lending institutions et all attached to their teat. Point is, that too many people are making to much money bleeding them to death. Like before someone will give them money to keep this process alive.
Even in the credit crunch, companies like this are important. The other ones need UAUA to survive so that they can.
Not say it could not happen, but money rules.

 

[contrail67]

?????

I would think even if we knew for a fact that UAL were not liquidating, those who failed an interview the last year would be feeling very lucky. Those who failed are still working at their old jobs while those who didn't are now selling nails at Home Depot.

Yep...and in the end after all the retirements...I bet you don't want to see where that person will be that got furloughed. Probably don't want to talk about that. Some people look forward in their career...not just an arms length...it is all a risk.

 

[Minimaniac]

United and the airline indecency...i mean industry...need a bailout! Afterall, if the porn industry is eligible, why not he airlines? Not to mention, the porn industry cannot succeed without the airlines. Porn and the cockpit go together like peas and carrots...

 

[pipe]

United and the airline indecency...i mean industry...need a bailout! Afterall, if the porn industry is eligible, why not he airlines? Not to mention, the porn industry cannot succeed without the airlines. Porn and the cockpit go together like peas and carrots...

I disagree. Porn is more important, more rational, more profitable, and definitely better to it's employees. There is no comparison. Take for example, medical coverage. They probably get way more blood screenings than we do. I hear there are even regular prostate checks in some segments of the industry.

PIPEimp:

 

[Kugelblitz]

There are absolutely no rumors of talks between the 2 airlines in this area and our unions haven't spoken since last spring when the merger was discussed.

The two unions have been talking in the last few months. There was a picture taken not too long ago of both communication committees meeting at UAL ALPA's office.[/QUOTE]

Well that's awfully odd, I just spoke with the head of our merger and acquisitions committee last week and he told me exactly what I said, no merger talk of any sort. Perhaps it was star alliance stuff.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Hey our guys said the merger was dead, and then two weeks later, we have a merger.
These guys are covered under NDA's so they would nottell you a thing and in fact have to lie to your face.

 

[Kugelblitz]

UAL will not liquidate they are just putting themselves in a dire situation so when we do merge the DOJ will not object. This is a crappy way to do business but that is what UAL management has reduced themselves to.

I have to be honest with you, that is the most absurd thing I have yet read on this thread. I understand some of the outrage at the notion of a UAL liquidation, and as I stated at the outset, this is not about fun at someone else's expense (being I am ex-TWA). I heard 2 different people with the same rumor and it seemed worth seeking some corroboration on this website and I have yet to see any to date.

I really don't want to see anybody at UAL lose their jobs, moreover, I don't want anyone at UAL taking my job or career progression from me at CAL. I will just say that this notion of being 'too important, or too big to allow to fail' is a good justification to get oneself to fall asleep at night but it certainly isn't true on an economics level.

For that matter, Merrill Lynch and Wachovia were to big to allow to fail also. Guess what happened?

 

[Kugelblitz]

Hey our guys said the merger was dead, and then two weeks later, we have a merger.
These guys are covered under NDA's so they would nottell you a thing and in fact have to lie to your face.

Well my union finds lying to my face a great past-time. I still think the business media would be all over this if either the liquidation or merger were in the works. Our instructors just came out of a big meeting with Kellner himself and no hint of anything other than recalls and newhire hiring in the offing. He did make some pessimistic remarks about UAL's future which would seem to indicate there are no NDA'S in effect or he wouldn't have even mentioned United's name.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Trust me, you can talk generalities about anything covered under an NDA. It is the specifics that one needs to worry about.

Media would be in the dark about something like this. With a merger you want the hype, with Ch7 you want to push it off and out of the light as much as possible.
FWIW, I would be very surprised to see CH7. CH11 maybe. They are sick, but own a lot more than many do. If they are willing to pay over 10% interest there are people that will take their jets and make em pay for them. They can still raise the cash they need.

You have got to feed a monster like UAUA. To many people get rich off of them.

 

[Truckdriver]

Yep...and in the end after all the retirements...I bet you don't want to see where that person will be that got furloughed. Probably don't want to talk about that. Some people look forward in their career...not just an arms length...it is all a risk.

Don't want to piss back and forth at each other here pal. I'm glad you have a positive attitude and that will get you farther than luck in this industry. I wish the guys who got turned down by UAL were upset, that you were still hiring, and that UAL was still the airline it was 10 years ago. My point was that most of the guys who got turned down by UAL this year feel very lucky and I doubt they are starting posts like this because they are pissed. I wish they were, but they aren't. Keep up the positive attitude though.

FWIW, I know a couple fellas turned down by DAL and they feel lucky that they aren't sitting on the very bottom of a huge list that will most likely shrink soon. I think it is kinda that way everywhere right now.

 

[FBN0223]

You have got to feed a monster like UAUA. To many people get rich off of them.

I disagree. Times are much different now than when UA, NW and DL filed BK Chap 11 on round one. Lenders who could provide the necessary DIP financing are now in survival mode. As for a gov't bailout, I doubt that would come as one less major airline would actually help the industry.


Not saying that it will be UAUA, but whichever "monster" it is, I doubt that it will be fed by anyone.

 

[belchfire]

You have got to feed a monster like UAUA. To many people get rich off of them.

Well, the monsters have already taken the defined benefits and fed them to the CEO's thereof...so who are the real monsters???

 

[waveflyer]

belch- were not on polar opposites on everything. Why is it if we mention CEO compensation somebody's accusing us of 'class warfare'. Call it whatever you like- How about stop stealing the benefits of my productivity.