DAL AE's, Junior Bases

[Who Dey]

Thanks for the input guys. I will check out the ALPA website. As far as moving how could I give up the Bengals for the Lions. The Bengals are far superior. 1 win and a tie vs 0 wins come on.

 

[maxblast72]

Thanks for the input guys. I will check out the ALPA website. As far as moving how could I give up the Bengals for the Lions. The Bengals are far superior. 1 win and a tie vs 0 wins come on.

Who Dey? We Dey. Sorry couldn't resist.

Go Steelers.

 

[regionalcap]

Look, we are at the point that whining and complaining is not going to do any good. The best thing that we can do is work together. The arbitrator has ruled. DONE. OVER. FINISHED. MOVE ON. We are one company now. Let's make it the best and we will all profit.

 

[cocknbull]

I usually don't post much but here it goes. I am on the bottom of the seniority list and was wondering how jr CVG is. It is my home so I would like to stop commuting to DTW. Yes bitter Dal guy(jetjockey) I will be getting a better lifestyle if I get CVG but in 10 years I was supposed to be halfway up the list now I will only be 1/4 of the way up. My % on the list 10 years will be hurt. I am not complaining I am dealing with it. If I can get CVG after SOC I would like it. I don't think that is screwing over any Delta pilots. So back to my point is there a chance to get CVG? I am down in the real low 12000s

With all of the displacements going on don't count on seniority being of any value in regards to backfill into open psoitions in CVG. For some reason the union allows people being displaced priority for seats created by movement rather than senior pilots.

 

[DAL737FO]

With all of the displacements going on don't count on seniority being of any value in regards to backfill into open psoitions in CVG. For some reason the union allows people being displaced priority for seats created by movement rather than senior pilots.[/quote]

This is a false statement. Just like when the company opened the CVG ER base the AE is run first followed by the displacement bid. If the person on the displacement bid is senior to someone that got the bid via the AE then they bump them out. Seniority is still king. The problem comes from a bid that is mostly displacements. Then the displaced pilot can bump someone out of category if they are senior enough to bump that person. Now if there was no AE for that slot you don't get looked at if you had an AE bid preference in for the same category if you are not being displaced. I know this is clear as mud but I can give an example if you still don't understand.

With the amount of aircraft movement the company is talking about in the near future, everyone better have their displacement bids up to date.

 

[Going2Baja]

Sorry not to know the lingo - But what is an "AE" and how is it used? Also - With no fences, when will a new bid come out for a system wide bid? Or will it?

Baja.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

My guess is that if the company knows when the SOC will be handed down, the next AE or the one after that could be for both sides.

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

AE stands for Advance Entitlement. It is a bid and can include forward (vacancies) or rearward movement (displacements).

You can call it a "system" bid if you wish but that's not really what it is. It's to fill vacancies or move people back in surplusses.

Pertaining to the second question, prior to SOC or single certificate which is when NWA no longer exists even as the Delta subsidary it is now, any displacements/vacancies will be kept on respective fence sides. After the SOC which is scheduled for late Fall 2009, and NWA or DAL bubba can bid to the other side, based upon needs of Delta, with the exception of 747-400s (NWA) and Delta (777s). One cannot cross the fence on/off those jets for 5 years from SOC.

I am not sure whether those big jet fences apply to Captains only or both CA's and F/Os.

 

[michael707767]

The problem is the much different demographics, bases, and equipment at the two companies. The day this merger was announced the writing was on the wall that the NW guys would move to bigger equipment closer to home ASAP. I don't blame them.

Yeah, while the NWA lawyers were arguing about their Super Premium Widebodies, we should have been arguing about our Super Premium Bases.

It's ironic. I think Delta pilots in the middle of the list would have been better off with the NWA proposal......DOH with 10 year fences.

 

[nwaredtail]

Yeah, while the NWA lawyers were arguing about their Super Premium Widebodies, we should have been arguing about our Super Premium Bases.

It's ironic. I think Delta pilots in the middle of the list would have been better off with the NWA proposal......DOH with 10 year fences.

DAL pilots would have been better off with either proposal vs. original DAL, I guess I was talking to myself.

And you are correct. There are hundreds of DAL pilots that would have done better with NWA's DOH list.

 

[General Lee]

AE stands for Advance Entitlement. It is a bid and can include forward (vacancies) or rearward movement (displacements).

You can call it a "system" bid if you wish but that's not really what it is. It's to fill vacancies or move people back in surplusses.

Pertaining to the second question, prior to SOC or single certificate which is when NWA no longer exists even as the Delta subsidary it is now, any displacements/vacancies will be kept on respective fence sides. After the SOC which is scheduled for late Fall 2009, and NWA or DAL bubba can bid to the other side, based upon needs of Delta, with the exception of 747-400s (NWA) and Delta (777s). One cannot cross the fence on/off those jets for 5 years from SOC.

I am not sure whether those big jet fences apply to Captains only or both CA's and F/Os.

I would think it would be for both Captains and FOs, since it doesn't specify one way or the other. It said those planes are fenced off. I would think DTW 777 will be junior initiailly for both Captains and FOs from the DL side....for at least 5 years anyway. I see a lot of senior NWA guys going to ATL 744, though.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[michael707767]

DAL pilots would have been better off with either proposal vs. original DAL, I guess I was talking to myself.

And you are correct. There are hundreds of DAL pilots that would have done better with NWA's DOH list.

I think the list is pretty fair. And I only say many DAL pilots would have been better off with the NWA proposal because it included a ten year fence.

The lack of fences combined with most DAL pilots moving down a couple of percent means there will be a lot of DAL pilots getting bumped out of their seats once we have SOC.

I never envisioned there would be zero fences (which for anyone too junior to fy the 777/747/787 is what we got). I really think the arbitrators dropped the ball on that one.

 

[NuGuy]

I never envisioned there would be zero fences (which for anyone too junior to fy the 777/747/787 is what we got). I really think the arbitrators dropped the ball on that one.

Too bad. That's the price that was paid to share in the attrition that NWA brought to the table.

Get over it and move on.

Nu

 

[nwaredtail]

The lack of fences combined with most DAL pilots moving down a couple of percent means there will be a lot of DAL pilots getting bumped out of their seats once we have SOC.

Not necessarily true. No bump/ no flush unless you are displaced. So unless there are base realignments, parking of NWA aircraft, everyone will stay put.

 

[General Lee]

Not necessarily true. No bump/ no flush unless you are displaced. So unless there are base realignments, parking of NWA aircraft, everyone will stay put.

Expect a lot of possible aircraft swaps at bases. I have heard MD88/90 to MSP (so they can hit both coasts), A320/19 to SLC (because the MD90 could not hit the East Coast from there nonstop, and could have A330s going from SLC to NRT, AMS, and CDG too), 744 to ATL, 767-400s to DTW (maybe), and 777s at either DTW or MSP---to fill in for the 744s going to ATL. Some A330s will move from SEA to JFK (for AMM, CAI, and TLV), and maybe some A330s in ATL also. I think the DC9s will probably stay in MSP/DTW/MEM, but will do a lot more of their flying through ATL to compete with Airtran. That is what I have heard, and tomorrow that could all change...

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I think the list is pretty fair. And I only say many DAL pilots would have been better off with the NWA proposal because it included a ten year fence.

The lack of fences combined with most DAL pilots moving down a couple of percent means there will be a lot of DAL pilots getting bumped out of their seats once we have SOC.

I never envisioned there would be zero fences (which for anyone too junior to fy the 777/747/787 is what we got). I really think the arbitrators dropped the ball on that one.

Well, at least the greenbooks who were left without a widebody seat after the Roberts award will have to bid up on their side if they want one of the top seats, and the 777 with a 5 year fence will make them look at the 744 first. They could try the 764 in ATL I suppose, but it won't pay as much, and they will have to wait for displacements first. I bet they will look at new A330 positions in ATL or SLC after they first bid for ATL 744.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[poor2thecore]

How senior is SEA A330 FO/CA right now? Do you expect it to stay senior/junior over time? How about size, does DL want to grow it or keep it the way it is?

 

[nwaredtail]

How senior is SEA A330 FO/CA right now? Do you expect it to stay senior/junior over time? How about size, does DL want to grow it or keep it the way it is?

Very senior, Except for the random guy (1000 seniority/5100) most Capts are in the top 300. Same with the F/O's. Reserve fo is 1996 hire, rest are easily 88-95 hires. Very small base for us. 300ish pilots. I will be very glad when 300 pilots don't get 2 votes out of 15 mec members.

 

[poor2thecore]

Very senior, Except for the random guy (1000 seniority/5100) most Capts are in the top 300. Same with the F/O's. Reserve fo is 1996 hire, rest are easily 88-95 hires. Very small base for us. 300ish pilots. I will be very glad when 300 pilots don't get 2 votes out of 15 mec members.

Wow, 300? That seems like a lot for just AMS, NRT, and LHR? Or am I missing some? Do they cover the PRX and SFO flying as well?

 

[xray678]

Too bad. That's the price that was paid to share in the attrition that NWA brought to the table.

Get over it and move on.

You can't be a real pilot until you bitch about things you can't change.