DOJ Criteria for Pass/Denial of Mergers and why DAL/AK Could Be Approved

[ACL65PILOT]

Yep, but it is a different story with AS. We are not equal carriers so there will be fences.

 

[alaskaplt]

Nope it would be the same award as we did with NWA. Relative by equipment. It would allow you guys to move up in time. Plus, I could see them putting a moat and large fence around SEA for you!

What would relative by equipment look like? Since we only have 737's.

 

[IXLR8]

what an unbelievable clusterf**** it must be over there now

How so?..things are just beginning to start rolling along...enjoy!!!

 

[Sedona16]

And the seniority argument would go something like "lets see, you little guys only have 737's, so lets put you on the bottom of the list. You were never going to fly a big airplane anyway."

No Thanks.

Dont pay any attention to this guy ACL. He's just worried what will happen if/when he goes to SWA and his buddies at AK end up ahead of him career wise later on.

 

[QCappy]

Dont pay any attention to this guy ACL. He's just worried what will happen if/when he goes to SWA and his buddies at AK end up ahead of him career wise later on.

You are completely off base with this criticism of Green Banana. This couldn't be farther from the truth.

 

[RedRum]

Yep, but it is a different story with AS. We are not equal carriers so there will be fences.

You have seriously got to be the biggest Kool-Aid drinker I have seen on these boards in a long while. General does it, but he doesn't come off sounding like a greedy little junior Delta pilot.

Try to leave the AS guys alone, they have larger fish to fry than worrying about dealing with arrogant pilots wanting a piece of their action right now.

 

[Sedona16]

You have seriously got to be the biggest Kool-Aid drinker I have seen on these boards in a long while. General does it, but he doesn't come off sounding like a greedy little junior Delta pilot.

Try to leave the AS guys alone, they have larger fish to fry than worrying about dealing with arrogant pilots wanting a piece of their action right now.

In ACL's defense, if I'm not mistaken he was suggesting AS guys deserve fences to protect their base because of the unique situation. Not sure why you are jumping on his case.

 

[becket]

Nope it would be the same award as we did with NWA. Relative by equipment. It would allow you guys to move up in time. Plus, I could see them putting a moat and large fence around SEA for you!

There is absolutely no way of knowing any of this. Just because NWA/DAL used one method to integrate lists, does not mean that ALK/DAL would go the same way.

It would end up in binding arbitration and since all mergers have their own individual circumstances, nobody knows anything about relativity, doh, LOS, fences, nothing.

It's all up in the air. Even though DAL is 10 times the size of ALK, a deal still has to be negotiated or, most likely, arbitrated. DAL won't be able to dictate terms to little ole alaska.

Wish USAPA would get that through their puny little skulls.

 

[alaskaplt]

How would relative seniority by equipment work?

 

[slinky]

How would relative seniority by equipment work?

To answer your question:
They would determine how many 73 capt positions you bring to the merge.
They would determine how many 73 fo positions you bring to the merge.

They would determine what category this falls into. For example, using the DL/NW logic we would call everything in the system below 757 a narrow body and thus equal to the 73.

They would count the number of New Delta narrow body capt and fo positions.

We will take a totally fictional example.

Alaska Capt 100 New Delta Narrow body Capt 2500

Alaska FO 150 New Delta Narrow body Fo 5000


Ratio 100/2500 = 1/25
Ratio 150/5000 = 1/33.33333

Find the basic seniority number of the guy that could hold #1 narrow body Capt if every pilot in the company bid their most senior seat without reference to base. Then ratio the pilots starting at that seniority number 25 New Delta for every one Alaska until the numbers run out. Then Ratio the FO guys one Alaska for every 33.3 Delta till the numbers run out.

Since this is a totally fictional numbers game do not freak at the ratios that I picked. I simply did not want to spend the time to figure it out correctly.

Slinky

 

[alaskaplt]

To answer your question:
They would determine how many 73 capt positions you bring to the merge.
They would determine how many 73 fo positions you bring to the merge.

They would determine what category this falls into. For example, using the DL/NW logic we would call everything in the system below 757 a narrow body and thus equal to the 73.

They would count the number of New Delta narrow body capt and fo positions.

We will take a totally fictional example.

Alaska Capt 100 New Delta Narrow body Capt 2500

Alaska FO 150 New Delta Narrow body Fo 5000


Ratio 100/2500 = 1/25
Ratio 150/5000 = 1/33.33333

Find the basic seniority number of the guy that could hold #1 narrow body Capt if every pilot in the company bid their most senior seat without reference to base. Then ratio the pilots starting at that seniority number 25 New Delta for every one Alaska until the numbers run out. Then Ratio the FO guys one Alaska for every 33.3 Delta till the numbers run out.

Since this is a totally fictional numbers game do not freak at the ratios that I picked. I simply did not want to spend the time to figure it out correctly.

Slinky

Thanks Slinky. I'm guessing the md, 737, and dc9 probably make up at least 50% of deltas fleet. especially after you through in alaska's 100 or so 737's. so a simple way of looking at it, if that assumption is correct, would be if one were 30% up the alaska list you would be around 15% up delta list.

 

[slinky]

Thanks Slinky. I'm guessing the md, 737, and dc9 probably make up at least 50% of deltas fleet. especially after you through in alaska's 100 or so 737's. so a simple way of looking at it, if that assumption is correct, would be if one were 30% up the alaska list you would be around 15% up delta list.

I guess... the important thing is that you would all keep your seats. There is a no bump no flush polacy at Delta. You cannot be bid out of your equipment or base unless a displacement bid is announced. That is when someones aircraft or base is changed or canceled. Then those guys can go anywhere in the system that their seniority can hold and the chance exists that someone could get bumped off the bottom of their base/category.

Generally speaking you would have a seniority number that slotted you into where you could hold your present position at this company.

Slinky

 

[Fubijaakr]

The Banana beat me to it, but it bears repeating. You could buy Alaska with Alaska's money.

 

[ReverseSensing]

You could buy Alaska with Alaska's money.

Might as well...Lord knows we're not using it for anything.

 

[alaskaplt]

Might as well...Lord knows we're not using it for anything.

Isn't that the truth. We'll be close to the same size in 20 years if we're not bought. I like the plan 3000 pilots by year 3000 though.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

How many total pilots at AS? And could someone post the retirement #s by year?

 

[tico]

How many total pilots at AS? And could someone post the retirement #s by year?

We had 1435 active pilots.(Too hard to figure how many gravy sucking day maggots we have. est 100 +) On March 3rd we will have 1286 active pilots....
The published retirement numbers are:
08--32 :17--59 : 26--58
09--40 :18--51 :27--70
10--46 :19--60 :28--56
11--51 :20--58 :29--67
12--49 : 21--53 :30--63
13--45 : 22--77 1282 total
14--49 : 23--56
15--56 :24--76
16--57 : 25--52

Problem is this is not what is happening. About 65 % are going past 60 and that with a fully funded pension. I think if you move all the numbers by three years it comes out about right......