Senior People Hoping for Furlough

[Max Q]

Both are wrong, simple as that.

-Brett

 

[crj567]

Let's face it:

Many of these people are not that smart.... I flew with a guy back in the day-MH-who is now a very senior 70 capt.

This guy was a special type of retarded-he constantly yelled about everything I did-was mean to anyone and everyone he came in contact with, and generally was just a world-class ass. Numerous examples of just plain idiocy.

One thing that stuck in my mind came out of this fool's mouth, and it was so retarded I wish I never heard it.

This was back around 2000, and the DAL pilots were coming down to the wire on the prospect of a strike. I was posing the question of why he thought we would continue flying right through their strike, His reply was:

"we make so much money, we would keep Delta going-mainline doesn't need their planes to fly-they could park 'em all, and we would still keep making a billion a year......"

Now that little statement crawled in my head, and rattled around. The level of sheer retardation for someone to come up with that is simply incredible. I can't un-hear a statement like that, but I can wish I never met anyone with the same levels of mean and stupid as MH. He would definitely be a candidate for saying something that foolish.

-What a fool-almost of the Gen. Lee caliber.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Both are wrong, simple as that.

-Brett

It's only wrong if the other person really cares about what happens to me.....If they don't really care about me than I don't care about them....If they care about me than I care about them.....Not so simple.....

"Brotherhood" has to be more than a pin, a sticker on a flight bag, and a magazine......

Whether you think it is "right" or "wrong"....it is prudent to assume that nobody is looking out for YOU....other than YOU.....

It's not the best way for us to conduct ourselves....but it is reality....

 

[Simon Says]

Interesting aurgument. I don't have a dog in this fight, but there is an aurgument.

Lets take a look at the extreme of the aurgument and then judge how much is enough.

For the sake of aurgument lets say you guys are only paid for what you fly and no monthly garantee. (could happen in bankrupcy) Then they cut flying so much that everybody on property only flys one day trip a month worth 3 hours....so everybody on property only gets paid 3 hours a month.

What is worth more. Keeping everybody on property but everybody is only making a couple of bucks. Or furloghing so the rest of the guys on property can make money to support whatever they need to support.

I am not saying at this time furlogh, but there does come a time, and it is different for everybody when you must sacrafice some for the good of the whole.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Interesting aurgument. I don't have a dog in this fight, but there is an aurgument.

Lets take a look at the extreme of the aurgument and then judge how much is enough.

For the sake of aurgument lets say you guys are only paid for what you fly and no monthly garantee. (could happen in bankrupcy) Then they cut flying so much that everybody on property only flys one day trip a month worth 3 hours....so everybody on property only gets paid 3 hours a month.

What is worth more. Keeping everybody on property but everybody is only making a couple of bucks. Or furloghing so the rest of the guys on property can make money to support whatever they need to support.

I am not saying at this time furlogh, but there does come a time, and it is different for everybody when you must sacrafice some for the good of the whole.

Kinda like the socialism vs. capitalism argument...

 

[Stifler's Mom]

It's only wrong if the other person really cares about what happens to me.....If they don't really care about me than I don't care about them....If they care about me than I care about them.....Not so simple.....

"Brotherhood" has to be more than a pin, a sticker on a flight bag, and a magazine......

Whether you think it is "right" or "wrong"....it is prudent to assume that nobody is looking out for YOU....other than YOU.....

It's not the best way for us to conduct ourselves....but it is reality....

Speaking of Brotherhood then Joe. Care to explain how your stunt as Secretary a few years ago promoted brotherhood for the rest of us line pilots?

Remember us, the ones that elected you to that position?

Or was this another example of a person (you) looking out for yourself without regard to other people (line pilots)?

 

[Texx]

Speaking of Brotherhood then Joe. Care to explain how your stunt as Secretary a few years ago promoted brotherhood for the rest of us line pilots?

Remember us, the ones that elected you to that position?

Or was this another example of a person (you) looking out for yourself without regard to other people (line pilots)?

DIVE DIVE Here comes the firefight!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Speaking of Brotherhood then Joe. Care to explain how your stunt as Secretary a few years ago promoted brotherhood for the rest of us line pilots?

Remember us, the ones that elected you to that position?

Or was this another example of a person (you) looking out for yourself without regard to other people (line pilots)?

I supported RJDC without hiding it....unlike our current MEC Chairman who supported RJDC in secret....You cannot publically speak ill of ALPA and hold a position within it...If so you will be ignored...I was ignored so I withdrew from all support.....

We are promoting a myth that ALPA is a brotherhood....

I promoted forcing ALPA to quit the practice of using mainline scope to divide and weaken us....both with the PID and subsequently with RJDC....

WF and I don't agree on much...but we will both tell you what happens to ALPA volunteers who speak out against ALPA.....You are shunned....Public dissention is not allowed....

In addition to the whole DFR/PID/RJDC issue....I believe the entire negotiations process was botched from the git go.....

At the time I still believed we could salvage this union.....I no longer believe that and believe ALPA has outlived it's usefullness.....

Stifler...let me turn that question around:

How can we have "brotherhood" when ALPA represents conflicting interests at the mainline and the regional level....The current structure does not promote "brotherhood"....

 

[damnflyboy]

I don't even know why everyone is getting bent out of shape.

The Messiah is rising on January 20th and will spray the world with a liquid panacea of the likes nobody has ever seen.

The beer will flow like wine.

Beautiful women will instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano.

I'm talking about a little place called THE REGIONALS.


And, besides...Who needs a job when we can steal the wealth from others and live in a society with absolutely no personal accountability?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Joe,

Maybe some others could shed light on your comment about being shunned by ASA ALPA. From what I was able to gather you didn't show up to meetings, and when you did, you kept the minutes.

I am pretty sure that you would have had many people support you in your quest to question authority, but what I understand, you took your ball and went home instead. You offered to represent the pilots at ASA, and instead you sat it out.

As far as questioning ALPA, I enjoy reading your posts and looking at a different angle sometimes. But your whole time as Secretary left me with a sour taste, and as a result, Lynn, Barry, and the other two (can't remember their names right now) were never going to get my vote last election as a result of what happened.

I knew Barry from my years on the ATR and liked him as an instructor and a person, but he aligned himself with Lynn, and it cost him my vote.

Your whole agenda against ALPA is your personal issue, but when you constantly blame ALPA for every ill in the indutry it gets old. Somehow some senior jackass at our company has some belief that junior people should be let go, and you try to blame ALPA for it. ??????????????????????????

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Stifler...let me turn that question around:

How can we have "brotherhood" when ALPA represents conflicting interests at the mainline and the regional level....The current structure does not promote "brotherhood"....

I just saw this part, you may have added it after I responded above....

Here is my take on this particular thread and subject it is addressing.

We are talking about our pilot group, not ALPA National or any other regional. We are talking about our own pilot group. I spent a few years as an FO on the 700 after spending some time on the ATR. What a culture shock. I am not suprised to hear that most likely some senior guy at our company doesn't give a ******************** about some junior guy. I've flown with a few guys that didn't care how many 700's were transferred to SKW a few years ago because as one stated to me, "I am so senior, we'd have to lose all but 10 airframes before my QOL suffers." Nice attitude.

As soon as the first guy from ASA hits the street, I am flying my line and that's all. No picking up Open Time or anything. It may not make any difference, but it's my way of showing support to my friends and coworkers.

Back to your question about ALPA and its conflict of interest. I see that, but have nothing to really offer about solutions for it. My experience level with the union isn;t that great, and so I will not offer up something I really don't know much about. That is why I like listening to you and WF with your opinions, and probably won't hear me argue with you about it. It's your opinion and feelings on that issue, and can;t be taken away.

 

[Simon Says]

Kinda like the socialism vs. capitalism argument...

Exactly, and where to find a happy medium.

I always believe the medium is where no one is happy.

 

[JustaNumber]

Recently I ran into some people hoping that ASA furloughs so their credit hours will be back to normal. (ASA has reduced overall line values to minimize the costs of keeping people on.)

Is it just me, or does that seem selfish?

Nice, but you're all missing the fact that the concept is kind of ignorant to begin with. Furloughing would not necessarily "get credit hours back to normal." Just ask the (remaining) Comair guys if they are enjoying their 100 hour lines.

What the senior, and junior, guys should be wishing for is for Delta to increase our assigned block hours. That's what's driving our quality of life, nothing else.

For what it's worth, if block hours do decrease even more, I would support an average line value of 75 hours in order to keep guys off the street. Of course, below that number and furloughs would probably be necessary, as it doesn't make any fiscal sense to pay pilots for not working. Let's hope it never comes to that.

 

[wmuflyguy]

One thing that stuck in my mind came out of this fool's mouth, and it was so retarded I wish I never heard it.

This was back around 2000, and the DAL pilots were coming down to the wire on the prospect of a strike. I was posing the question of why he thought we would continue flying right through their strike, His reply was:

"we make so much money, we would keep Delta going-mainline doesn't need their planes to fly-they could park 'em all, and we would still keep making a billion a year......"

Now that little statement crawled in my head, and rattled around. The level of sheer retardation for someone to come up with that is simply incredible. I can't un-hear a statement like that, but I can wish I never met anyone with the same levels of mean and stupid as MH. He would definitely be a candidate for saying something that foolish.

-What a fool-almost of the Gen. Lee caliber.....

Unfortunately he isn't the only one that thinks this. I have flown with numerous senior captains who have stated the same thing where I work(a few of them were nice enough guys, but nice doesn't equal smart). I feel dumber every time I hear it.

 

[DoinTime]

Exactly, and where to find a happy medium.

I always believe the medium is where no one is happy.

The happy medium is where the majority of people are happy but the very vocal extremists from the far left and right are both infuriated.