ALPA 401k vote.

[CopilotDoug]

The question now is.... with less operating funds, the satiated membership will expect ALPA to do more with less... and of course when ALPA does not because it has a big gaping AAAhole in its budget... the ALPA haters will jig with glee at its ineffectiveness...

So is a proposal for Dues Increase in the works?

 

[PCL_128]

So is a proposal for Dues Increase in the works?

I haven't heard of any.

 

[CopilotDoug]

ASA is a feeder carrier, and it will always be a feeder carrier.

Wasn't MESA looking into operating 737s a few years back?

 

[BeCareful!]

ALPA is in need of more dues money because ALPA fu%$#D up, and I'm so glad to see the membership tell them "not out of MY pockets."

Very plain.....very simple. ALPA is an organization in decline, and for very obvious reasons.

 

[pipejockey]

Congratulations to all the peons out here that don't have 2 nickels to rub together, let alone a buck for the van driver. This is a victory for all of us. Alpo finally did the right thing, although it was the people that voted this down and not the executive branch of Alpo. If Alpo can negotiate 50% pay raises for it's members and couple our yearly pay increases to the inflation rate, then maybe, just maybe I could stomach having my 401K contributions assessed. But until I am paid what highly skilled labor should be paid, then hell no!! I won't let anyone assess my 401K contributions.

CrewPass and now the defeat of this obnoxious proposal. What does Alpo have in store for us next? If they stay on this course I will continue to refer to them as Alpo instead of alpo. Maybe one day I can refer to them as ALPA. Highly doubtful though.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Very plain.....very simple. ALPA is an organization in decline, and for very obvious reasons.

What do you suggest as an alternative?

Or is subjecting yourself to your employers whim (aka indentured servatude) satisfactory?

 

[stlflyguy]

ALPA's removal of date of hire as an integration criteria is flawed. While not every integration supports a straight DOH merge, removing the possibility that it is to be considered is worse. Couple that with the desire to no longer have fences and you get your AAA/AWA debacle. In short, the "elephants" changed it to their advantage when they were growing and bulked up on FNG's. Then again, all it took was for the TWA pilots to give the OZ pilots DOH. That's a different rant. Seems to me that shortly thereafter the elephants wanted the DOH provision replaced with "career expectations."

In the meantime, ALPA also needs to control regional airline whipsawing so as to prevent undercutting between its own membership groups. A minimum work rule standard and pay rate should be implemented with no contract being approved that doesn't meet the criteria.

Instead, ALPA just worries about how big the membership is and how it can grab revenue without it seeming like its trying...to grab revenue.

stlflyguy

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Sounds good... got a plan?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Sounds good... got a plan?

I've got my plan, Rez...but you already know what that is

 

[JoeMerchant]

Sounds good... got a plan?

What's your plan Rez?....Specifics please......

 

[stlflyguy]

There shouldn't have to be "a plan"...

Sounds good... got a plan?

Employees form a union to collectively bargain, enact workrules, and prevent infractions on the agreements reached with the company. This is basic. Perhaps ALPA should "reinvent itself" because all they've seemed to worry about over the last ten years is increasing the membership.

To think that Prater is any different from Woerth is crazy as Prater probably has Duane's Right Guard on his head.

There doesn't need to be a plan when one returns to the original motivation for union representation. ALPA does nothing but take the longest standing carriers for granted.

/rant

stlflyguy

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What's your plan Rez?....Specifics please......

Well it is kind of boring, mundane, methodical and requires a certain level of self induced responsibility...

It certainly isn't sexy or exciting... like a lawsuit....

Still want to hear about it??

 

[stlflyguy]

Still want to hear about it??

Hold it...let me get ready with something to spew into...okay, go ahead.

stlflyguy

 

[CopilotDoug]

Well it is kind of boring, mundane, methodical and requires a certain level of self induced responsibility...

It certainly isn't sexy or exciting... like a lawsuit....

Still want to hear about it??

Well...WE'RE WAITING!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well it is kind of boring, mundane, methodical and requires a certain level of self induced responsibility...

It certainly isn't sexy or exciting... like a lawsuit....

Still want to hear about it??

Yes I do.....I am eargerly awaiting your plan.....

Lawsuits aren't fixes....they are responses to inaction or bad action.....

Go ahead and enlighten us Rez....Let's hear it......

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yes I do.....I am eargerly awaiting your plan.....

Lawsuits aren't fixes....they are responses to inaction or bad action.....

Go ahead and enlighten us Rez....Let's hear it......

Lawsuits, in your case, demonstrate that a group doesn't have the social skill set to communicate to another group the need for change. It is a character flaw.

With 55,000+ pilots it is impossible to make everyone happy...

However, with that said....

ALPA needs to improve its leadership training of its leaders. ALPA needs to create and implement a leadership training program..

ALPA also has to invest in pilots early. While ERAU and UND are selling the dream much like Kit Darby, there is little reality to the real world and real earnings.

Most pilots don't have a clue about ALPA and how it works. Then they fly with Joe Merchant or someone like him and "get educated". They are tainted for life.

Simply put, when the leadership says charge, the membership must show up in force and demonstrate to the opposition that force. This is ALPA's big problem. All bark no bite.

ALPA needs to run better LEC meetings. Back the leadership. A pilot shows up with a resolution poorly written but with good intentions... the LEC chair squashes the resolution and the pilot vows never to attend a dictatorship LEC meeting again. The LEC meetings need to be run professionally but relaxed. Start on time, end timely. A-V equip needs to be running before anyone shows up...

Pilots need to be informed. Ignorant pilots make for weak effectiveness. Despite poor leadership, the membership must demand effective leadership. However, in democracy what does one do when no effective leaders volunteer?

Simply put the responsibility lies with both the leadership and the membership. Dues money does not mean sit back and demand performance, like so many insist. Dues money is simply what we contribute, however, only after a member makes leaders accountable will ALPA improve.

Is ALPA really going to get better if we a members don't get involved, demanding better performance? Complaining on FI does nothing. That is for cowards. But going to LEC meetings and politely but firmly demanding better performance is what is real. That takes more maturity, social skill and tact than crying on FI. And if of course it is boring, mundane, methodical and slow...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Joey Merchant... Copilotdougie.... a reply perhaps?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Joey Merchant... Copilotdougie.... a reply perhaps?

Let me grab my red pen...we won't have to worry about the green one...

ALPA needs to improve its leadership training of its leaders. ALPA needs to create and implement a leadership training program...

Do they have the funds? Will this require a dues increase?

ALPA also has to invest in pilots early. While ERAU and UND are selling the dream much like Kit Darby, there is little reality to the real world and real earnings.

How? Remember your audience...a bunch of kids who already know everything, and they have a RAGING case of SJS. Are you going to coordinate with the individual schools to hold seminars for the students...or pass out pamphlets? Are you only going to solicit a top few...or try to hit them all? What about part 61 schools?

Most pilots don't have a clue about ALPA and how it works. Then they fly with Joe Merchant or someone like him and "get educated". They are tainted for life.

Perceptions of ALPA will differ from one pilot to the next...and perceptions will vary greatly between pilot groups. They are a fact of life, unless you intend to brainwash them. Anyway to mitigate these differences in perception?

Simply put, when the leadership says charge, the membership must show up in force and demonstrate to the opposition that force. This is ALPA's big problem. All bark no bite.

Naturally...

ALPA needs to run better LEC meetings. Back the leadership. A pilot shows up with a resolution poorly written but with good intentions... the LEC chair squashes the resolution and the pilot vows never to attend a dictatorship LEC meeting again. The LEC meetings need to be run professionally but relaxed. Start on time, end timely. A-V equip needs to be running before anyone shows up...

I'll have to take your word...

Pilots need to be informed. Ignorant pilots make for weak effectiveness.

Informing won't hurt, but doesn't guarantee they'll see things the ALPA way. You can lead a horse to water...

Despite poor leadership, the membership must demand effective leadership.

As I've always advocated...

However, in democracy what does one do when no effective leaders volunteer?

Improvise, adapt, and overcome...naturally.

Overall: Well intended pro-ALPA conjecture.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Let me grab my red pen...we won't have to worry about the green one...
Do they have the funds? Will this require a dues increase?

No.

How? Remember your audience...a bunch of kids who already know everything, and they have a RAGING case of SJS. Are you going to coordinate with the individual schools to hold seminars for the students...or pass out pamphlets? Are you only going to solicit a top few...or try to hit them all? What about part 61 schools?

Wrong perception on your part...as usual. ALPA has already had success in this... it just needs to be expanded.

Currently ALPA gets 30-60 mins in new hire class to introduce themselves. ALPA hits 'em with free pizza and the quick sell. Then says don't forget in 12 months send in your initiation fee. 13 months later the new hire pilot forgets and gets nasty grams from ALPA. Honeymoon over.

In addition this first year, the probation year is where new pilots develop poor expectation of what ALPA can and cannot do. They think ALPA can beat the RLA, management and gov't any day of the weak and when ALPA doesn't then the leaders are on the take.

Perceptions of ALPA will differ from one pilot to the next...and perceptions will vary greatly between pilot groups. They are a fact of life, unless you intend to brainwash them. Anyway to mitigate these differences in perception?

Yes. All organizations do this to keep their membership effective. ALPA needs to do a better job.

Naturally...

I'll have to take your word...

I guess so...

Informing won't hurt, but doesn't guarantee they'll see things the ALPA way. You can lead a horse to water...

Individual commitment to a group effort - that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work.
-Lombardi
​

As I've always advocated...
Improvise, adapt, and overcome...naturally.

An individual responsibility...

Overall: Well intended pro-ALPA conjecture.

copy that...

 

[JoeMerchant]

Sorry for the delay...more important stuff lately....

Lawsuits, in your case, demonstrate that a group doesn't have the social skill set to communicate to another group the need for change. It is a character flaw.

So all lawsuits are the result of not having the "social skill set to communicate to another group the need for change"?...Does that include all the ALPA lawsuits? Why did ALPA settle then?...Including paying much of the legal costs?

With 55,000+ pilots it is impossible to make everyone happy...

That is true....However, how should you deal with the minority opinions?.....You know...Democracy and all.....20-30% of regional pilots are "lifers"....How are you going to deal with them while telling them that their flying belongs to other members?

ALPA needs to improve its leadership training of its leaders. ALPA needs to create and implement a leadership training program..

ALPA also has to invest in pilots early. While ERAU and UND are selling the dream much like Kit Darby, there is little reality to the real world and real earnings.

Most pilots don't have a clue about ALPA and how it works. Then they fly with Joe Merchant or someone like him and "get educated". They are tainted for life.

Simply put, when the leadership says charge, the membership must show up in force and demonstrate to the opposition that force. This is ALPA's big problem. All bark no bite.

ALPA needs to run better LEC meetings. Back the leadership. A pilot shows up with a resolution poorly written but with good intentions... the LEC chair squashes the resolution and the pilot vows never to attend a dictatorship LEC meeting again. The LEC meetings need to be run professionally but relaxed. Start on time, end timely. A-V equip needs to be running before anyone shows up...

Pilots need to be informed. Ignorant pilots make for weak effectiveness. Despite poor leadership, the membership must demand effective leadership. However, in democracy what does one do when no effective leaders volunteer?

Simply put the responsibility lies with both the leadership and the membership. Dues money does not mean sit back and demand performance, like so many insist. Dues money is simply what we contribute, however, only after a member makes leaders accountable will ALPA improve.

Is ALPA really going to get better if we a members don't get involved, demanding better performance? Complaining on FI does nothing. That is for cowards. But going to LEC meetings and politely but firmly demanding better performance is what is real. That takes more maturity, social skill and tact than crying on FI. And if of course it is boring, mundane, methodical and slow...

How is any of that going to deal with the different goals that we have? ALPA will only work if we all pull in the same direction.....How are you going to address the issue of the "lifers" at ASA, CMR, Mesaba, etc........Specifics please....