NWA/DAL JCBA Final Thoughts

[Superpilot92]

The Northwest and Delta pilots are at a crossroads that will change our careers and possibly the future of the airline industry in the United States. As you prepare to make a decision on the JCBA and related documents, there are several questions that you should ask yourself:

• Will the merger go forward with or without a positive vote by the two pilot groups?
• Will the pilots at the new merged airline be unified or fighting one another?
• Will the cooperative agreement create a better future for both pilot groups?
• Will a cooperative approach break the chain of merger/pilot conflict and lead to more opportunity for growth and successful careers for both pilot groups?
• Will a refusal to ratify the JCBA, by either pilot group, launch us down the road of a traditional merger process, with the protracted inefficiencies and animosity that often result?

Your elected leadership and the elected leadership of the Delta pilots have closely examined these questions and have voted unanimously to approve the JCBA, this process and the future they provide for the pilots we represent. Please take time to examine the applicable documents and make a careful and reasoned decision for your future and the future of your fellow pilots.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

It seems that there is a slight shift in the affirmative in the last day or so down here in Atlanta.

 

[800Dog]

Just vote No! Duration is too long, pay raises are too small and the DC contribution is too little too late.

 

[FDJ2]

Just vote No! Duration is too long, pay raises are too small and the DC contribution is too little too late.

The duration is the same as LOA19. Voting no does not change the duration.

Granted the pay raises and DC contributions aren't eye watering, but we need to work for a strong and profitable airline and be a unified pilot group before we can demand substantially more pay.

At a time in the industry when other airlines are talking furlough and pay cuts, the fact that we can get pay raises and DC improvements that add up to over 21% over the life of this contract, an equity stake for every pilot on the combined list and other contractual improvements from LOA 19 and a JCBA as well as an equity payout from a company barely out of bankruptcy is nothing to sneeze at. JMHO

 

[800Dog]

The duration is the same as LOA19. Voting no does not change the duration.

Granted the pay raises and DC contributions aren't eye watering, but we need to work for a strong and profitable airline and be a unified pilot group before we can demand substantially more pay.

At a time in the industry when other airlines are talking furlough and pay cuts, the fact that we can get pay raises and DC improvements that add up to over 21% over the life of this contract, an equity stake for every pilot on the combined list and other contractual improvements from LOA 19 and a JCBA as well as an equity payout from a company barely out of bankruptcy is nothing to sneeze at. JMHO

Voted no for loa19 as well. Nothing new. Duration is too long! Amemdable date in 2012 and figure two years to negotiate a new contract. Bankruptcy contract until 2014 is unacceptable.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Voted Yes.

 

[FBN0223]

Any pay raise is good in this environment. Doubt the JCBA will see improvements if we vote it down more likely the opposite.

Voted yes

 

[ExAF]

We'll Know Soon

Voted Yes. Just don't see how a no vote can possibly lead to any further improvement in this environment. Not saying it is great, but it is better than a sharp stick in the eye. Overall pros outnumber cons. Seems like a no brainer.

 

[General Lee]

Voted YES. Overall, more good than bad. Would like to have seen the full DC allottement now instead of over a few years, and the pay raises should have been a bit higher.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[qxdash8]

I'm a new guy and therefore ineligible to vote, but I would vote yes if I could.

There are definitely some cons to this agreement, but l agree that they are outweighed by the pros. To be getting any improvements at all given the current state of the industry is a good thing.

 

[Flyer1015]

Will the merger go forward with or without a positive vote by the two pilot groups?

YES!

Will the pilots at the new merged airline be unified or fighting one another?

Fighting one another.

Will the cooperative agreement create a better future for both pilot groups?

NO! And don't let management, lawyers, and Wall Street investors tell you otherwise. Management and Wall Street profit when the stocks initially go up (everyone remember how high the new US Airways stock went when they 'merged' with AWA)? Once the dust settles, management, lawyers, and Wall Street will have cashed out. Employees will be the screwed group.

Will a cooperative approach break the chain of merger/pilot conflict and lead to more opportunity for growth and successful careers for both pilot groups?

Perhaps.

Will a refusal to ratify the JCBA, by either pilot group, launch us down the road of a traditional merger process, with the protracted inefficiencies and animosity that often result?

You bet yur as$! Would you expect any differently?

 

[Superpilot92]

NO! And don't let management, lawyers, and Wall Street investors tell you otherwise. Management and Wall Street profit when the stocks initially go up (everyone remember how high the new US Airways stock went when they 'merged' with AWA)? Once the dust settles, management, lawyers, and Wall Street will have cashed out. Employees will be the screwed group.

I disagree, the future prospects are better for the NWA and DAL pilots. The only people negatively effected in the short term are the regionals that will have their growth stopped. By NWA and DAL joining up the regionals growth prospects will pretty much be nill. Which is good for the industry long term as a whole. All pilots should want the growth to be at mainline, the damage needs to be and will be stopped under this agreement.

I dont think there are many people who think that the NEW DELTA wont be a better airline after the dust settles, except you i guess.

Time will tell

 

[Flybet3]

Just vote No! Duration is too long, pay raises are too small and the DC contribution is too little too late.

What kind of pay raises are you expecting? With the way the industry is now a days you have to be a complete a$$ to think that we will ever see $300K.

 

[Flybet3]

Any pay raise is good in this environment. Doubt the JCBA will see improvements if we vote it down more likely the opposite.

Voted yes

Good for you. At least you're not a greedy douch**** like many of these guys.

 

[180ToTheMarker]

Voted yes because General Lee did and he is my hero. Seriously though, voted yes due to the pros outweighing the cons.

 

[Noserider76]

Anyone heard a word on how SLI negotiations are going? Or I guess I should say "how it went?" I'm assuming if they had achieved a negotiated deal they would have publicized that fact.

 

[MJ42]

Anyone heard a word on how SLI negotiations are going? Or I guess I should say "how it went?" I'm assuming if they had achieved a negotiated deal they would have publicized that fact.

We got an email today saying they are waiting until after the JCBA voting is over. Been very quiet since negotiations started.

 

[Diesel-9]

Imagine they went nowhere. Things will happen last few days before arbitration ruling.

 

[AirportBum]

Anyone know when the results from the JCBA votes will be published? Will we know tomorrow night, or does it take a few days to "count" electronic votes?

 

[Diesel-9]

I imagine they will be out soon after the deadline.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The only people negatively effected in the short term are the regionals that will have their growth stopped.

Guess that your don't include Compass and Mesaba, or Shuttle America. Growth by larger equipment and seat miles is still growth.

These airplanes are growth directly related to the transfer of NWA's flying. I am not the only pilot who thinks so, "ALPA Watch," a group of NWA pilots published their thoughts:

...the probability of a post merger DAL needing to downsize seems inevitable. So the question becomes which pilots will be displaced out of seat, base, equipment or furloughed. What if the first targets of that downsizing are all former NWA fleets, piloted by former NWA pilots, such as the DC-9 and the B747-200. Former NWA pilots would bear the brunt of those displacements and furloughs.

I'm changing my vote to "no" because I just can't abide our failure to stop the transfer of the DC9 flying off the seniority list.

Frankly, I don't know what happened in the SLI negotiations, I do not know why "a yes vote protects more jobs than a no vote," or why "scope doesn't work and isn't needed." Without the SLI, I'm not even sure what this contract means. There is too much I don't know and those who have explained it are not giving answers that I consider to be correct. I frankly and earnestly think Occam has it wrong on scope and wrong on Compass.

Maybe it is just the seasoned paranoid pilot coming out in me, but my vote is to set the parking brake.

I'm certainly not suggesting to anyone else how they should vote and there are a lot of "pro's" for the JPWA. I want to see NWA pilot equity on day one. But to me the fact that DC9 pilots are going to be looking to take my job as OUR MEC's allowed the outsourcing of their flying overwhelms my egalitarian bias.

~~~^~~~

 

[Superpilot92]

Frankly, I don't know what happened in the SLI negotiations, I do not know why "a yes vote protects more jobs than a no vote," or why "scope doesn't work and isn't needed." Without the SLI, I'm not even sure what this contract means.

Maybe it is just the seasoned paranoid pilot coming out in me, but my vote is to set the parking brake.

~~~^~~~

SLI:
"There has been a significant amount of speculation regarding progress of the seniority list integration (SLI). The NWA MEC leadership will continue to refrain from any SLI communication during the voting process. Information will be given once the JCBA voting deadline has been reached."


You do realize that the Mesaba "growth" is actually replacement aircraft, for the avro right?

Your paranoia is getting the best of you IMHO.

Also our Scope protections, which we could lose if voted down, protect against outsourcing of all the 9 flying. DAL, DALPA, NWALPA, are in agreement that the 9's arent going anywhere right now. Especially if oil keeps going down. The more it goes down the better the DC9 is. Take a deep breath and relax. The MEC's have the FACTs, WE dont.

THE PRO'S FAR OUTWEIGH THE CON'S!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Superpilot:

The avro died of natural causes. It's replacement is a more cost effective and capable airplane than the DC9. None the less, you are grabbing at straws.

Your motivation to see this pass and the basis for my concern has the same basis. IMHO both of our efforts would be best spent trying to fix the problem that motivates you and scares me.

You just look at the numbers and it adds up to fewer pilots. Everyone says that is not the case, but they do not offer any objective rebuttal to the common sense conclusion that 92 airplanes being replaced by approximately 25 airplanes is going to result in a net loss of pilot jobs.

 

[Superpilot92]

Superpilot:

The avro died of natural causes. It's replacement is a more cost effective and capable airplane than the DC9. None the less, you are grabbing at straws.

Grabbing at straws? How so? How many Avro's did mesaba have compared to the number of CRJ's?

Why do you always seem to pretend that our SCOPE doesnt exist? Why do you pretend mgmt can just replace OUR flying just because of a YES vote? Dont jump on the Drama Queen Boat fins

 

[FBN0223]

We vote this JCBA down and I can see it going something like this...

DL Management, "It's nice to know ya'll didn't like that contract we negotiated, 'cause we jus' got to talkin' and figured with the industry the way it is and all, that we should be handin' you boys pay cuts. How 'bout we start with 10%, drop that scope clause and bump up yer monthly maxes. And thanks again fer saving us here at Delta HQ the trouble."

 

[nonstop]

It'd be really interesting to see what would happen if this JCBA didn't pass. Honestly I think it'll pass with flying colors, just based on my observation of past votes and group reaction on message boards.

However, I think things would get really interesting if it didn't pass. I do not think the end result would be a similar but better contract, someone would jockey for better position and I'm pretty sure I know who RA would favor to put in that better position. Not to mention, there's only one group left with leverage.

Like I said though, I think calmer heads will prevail and it will pass no problem. This is not a time to roll the dice, this coming from someone who's never voted yes for anything. We will all go on to eat our SLI for better or worse and hopefully 5 years from now a powerhouse with real leverage for significant improvements will prevail.

 

[Superpilot92]

We vote this JCBA down and I can see it going something like this...

DL Management, "It's nice to know ya'll didn't like that contract we negotiated, 'cause we jus' got to talkin' and figured with the industry the way it is and all that we should be handin' you boys pay cuts. How 'bout we start with 10%, drop that scope clause and bump up yer monthly maxes. And thanks again fer saving us here at Delta HQ the trouble."

Its amazing that some people really think they have negotiating power right now and are willing to venture into USAIR version 2.1 to "Get it".:nuts:

We all want more money, but sometimes you just need to take what gains you can. This is were we can join up and really "Get it" when we have the power to do so as a single unified 12000+ pilot group.

I cant wait till this is all over with so we can start fighting about important things, like Coke or Pepsi

 

[~~~^~~~]

FBN:

The Delta pilots have LOA19 and I have little doubt the NWA pilots will get a SLOA that reaches parity and a little more (just to punish the bad pilots that voted no).

In reality, I also think this agreement will pass.

 

[FBN0223]

Probably one of the most difficult tasks would be to negotiate a contract that is everything to everyone. There are definitely items in the JCBA that could be better but, in the end, it's is a pay raise for us all and more time at home with the family.
Expeditious uniting the two pilot groups under one contract is our best move and I do hope cooler heads prevail so that we can wrap this up and get on to the SLI. WHich brings me to another topic. The big unknown SLI. Frankly, I am concerned. The thought of flying reserve on MD88 out of ATL on reserve isn't very appealing right now.. the same way DL guys think about strapping themselves into a DC-9. But I doubt either side will hit a home run with the SLI and basically it will be fairly negotiated.

 

[General Lee]

Probably one of the most difficult tasks would be to negotiate a contract that is everything to everyone. There are definitely items in the JCBA that could be better but, in the end, it's is a pay raise for us all and more time at home with the family.
Expeditious uniting the two pilot groups under one contract is our best move and I do hope cooler heads prevail so that we can wrap this up and get on to the SLI. WHich brings me to another topic. The big unknown SLI. Frankly, I am concerned. The thought of flying reserve on MD88 out of ATL on reserve isn't very appealing right now.. the same way DL guys think about strapping themselves into a DC-9. But I doubt either side will hit a home run with the SLI and basically it will be fairly negotiated.

With your seniority you would probably be flying the MD88 as a Captain out of ATL if you wanted to.....I think we are all a bit scared of the unknown. Even with a new seniority list, it will take a year maybe to merge the certificates, and that means nobody moves from side to side until that point. There should be other bids coming out in the meantime---with new 777s coming etc. What will be interesting though is what will happen when they move equipment from base to base....

BTW, in the last few days of flying I have spoken with a lot of pilots (in the jetways and cockpit) and none of them voted YES. They mostly complained about duration of the contract and pay. (I still think it will pass though)


Bye Bye--General Lee