Gotta ask the DAL hat ???

[nwaredtail]

OK, the NWA guys are for better/worse ragging the pros/cons of the stupid hats. Now, the rumors are flying about fines, hat police. etc. I have seen PLENTY of DAL guys not wearing/carrying/ in suitcase etc.

So whats the real story???? I personally think it is an antiquated look, as is the double breasted suit. I think the chubby northern types will look a bit silly, but thats just my opinion.

 

[General Lee]

OK, the NWA guys are for better/worse ragging the pros/cons of the stupid hats. Now, the rumors are flying about fines, hat police. etc. I have seen PLENTY of DAL guys not wearing/carrying/ in suitcase etc.

So whats the real story???? I personally think it is an antiquated look, as is the double breasted suit. I think the chubby northern types will look a bit silly, but thats just my opinion.

If you don't wear the hat and some chief pilot etc sees you, you will be pulled aside. I have seen it happen. Just wear it, and if you want to rebel against Delta, wear it like a baret and pretend you are an Air France Frog.

A lot of people make fun of the "Russian Sub Commander" uniform, but in reality it looks good, and our profession demands respect. If you want to look sloppy and discheveled, do it on your own time. Some passengers don't care what we look like, but some do, and some expect clean shaven and somewhat in shape. That jacket can partially cover a big gut too I suppose, I have seen it on some Captains. Have fun and enjoy your $400 outfit allottment. I would suggest Abbotts.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Sinatra was the last man on the planet that looked cool in a hat.

 

[Cookie Monster]

If they pay you to wear it, wear it.

 

[jehtplane]

and our profession demands respect.

Bye Bye--General Lee

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Do you really think in this day and age that people look at you in that double breasted jacket and respect you. Have you had a dead head in the last few years. Do you listen to what passengers say about the guys up front? Damn I want to live in your world. AHHHHH DELTA AHHHHHH DELTA AHHHHH DELTA.


ps. This post is in no way a slam to any Delta Pilot or any Pilot at all.

 

[General Lee]

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Do you really think in this day and age that people look at you in that double breasted jacket and respect you. Have you had a dead head in the last few years. Do you listen to what passengers say about the guys up front? Damn I want to live in your world. AHHHHH DELTA AHHHHHH DELTA AHHHHH DELTA.


ps. This post is in no way a slam to any Delta Pilot or any Pilot at all.

Dude, if you want to be sloppy, go for it. Do I get respect wearing the uniform? You bet. I have not been "disrespected", because I have an answer for everything, and usually they can't say I am wrong. Are they mad at Delta? Probably. Do they take it out on me to my face? Very very rarely. Maybe the uniform scares them. If you look sharp, then you can demand respect from passengers and airline workers. Maybe not management, but from regular folks--YES. If you are a fat slob with a gut, maybe not as much. Sad but true. If people are yelling at you jehtplane, maybe you need to get a haircut, workout, and find a tailor. Really, you need to look in the mirror. Get some confidence BOY. Keep laughing too. You sound like the Joker in "The Dark Knight."(PS--I am Batman)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Abernathy]

Dude, if you want to be sloppy, go for it. Do I get respect wearing the unifor? You bet. I have not been "disrespected", because I have an answer for everything, and usually they can't say I am wrong. Are they mad at Delta? Probably. Do they take it out on me to my face? Very very rarely. Maybe the uniform scares them. If you look sharp, then you can demand respect from passengers and airline workers. Maybe not management, but from regular folks--YES. If you are a fat slob with a gut, maybe not as much too. Sad but true. If people are yelling at you
jehtplane, maybe you need to get a haircut, workout, and find a tailor. Really, you need to look in the mirror. Get some confidence BOY. Keep laughing too. You sound like the Joker in "The Dark Knight."(PS--I am Batman)


Bye Bye--General Lee

Some people look retarded in the hats and look more professional without the damn thing on. Especially if you've got a small head.

Hats should always be optional. No one should be forced to wear anything on their head. It's demeaning. But no one really takes the thing seriously enough to make an issue of it. Except Delta, apparently.

But whatever. If it makes your life easier at work, I guess wear the stupid thing.

 

[General Lee]

Some people look retarded in the hats and look more professional without the damn thing on. Especially if you've got a small head.

Hats should always be optional. No one should be forced to wear anything on their head. It's demeaning. But no one really takes the thing seriously enough to make an issue of it. Except Delta, apparently.

But whatever. If it makes your life easier at work, I guess wear the stupid thing.

There are different hat sizes you know. People don't have to wear one sized hat. If you don't want to look the part, fly part time at an FBO or at a charter or fractional. Otherwise, wear what they tell you to wear. It really is that simple.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[cocknbull]

Just wear it. As long as your paycheck comes twice a month you ought to respect company policy. Its called being a professional.

Yes, most of us at DAL still take pride in our profession and ourselves. Looking sloppy gives people the impression that you have low self worth.

We may be out of printer paper in the crew room but we have plenty of shoe polish.

Now if we could only fire the cat loving bag ladies and get some hotties in the red dress! I'm dreaming.

 

[rf285]

Ah, cat ranchers.

It is true and not a myth, they exist... In the majority I might add.

 

[400ADude]

Wear it if required but most folks that say it commands respect or is an authority symbol are control freaks that have problems with just about everybody: Gate Agents, Flight Attendants, other pilots, ATC, ground crews, etc... and goes on and on and on.

Where I work, if somebody wears the hat and isn't a check airman, managment type, or an older Ex-Braniff, Eastern dude then they are probably a control freak or over the top anal. Either way it is not fun for the F/O.

The hat is dead.

 

[say again]

If you don't want to look the part, fly part time at an FBO or at a charter or fractional. Otherwise, wear what they tell you to wear. It really is that simple.

I "look" the part at my charter job, as do 99% of the pilots I see. Do you believe that only airline pilots wear uniforms? From working 121 and 135, I can tell you that corp/frac/charter pilots take pride in how they look, more so than 121 guys. Just an observation over the years, and I mean no disrespect to airline guys. I know many 121 guys look and act professional, but many do not.

 

[General Lee]

I "look" the part at my charter job, as do 99% of the pilots I see. Do you believe that only airline pilots wear uniforms? From working 121 and 135, I can tell you that corp/frac/charter pilots take pride in how they look, more so than 121 guys. Just an observation over the years, and I mean no disrespect to airline guys. I know many 121 guys look and act professional, but many do not.

You left out the first part of my response. I never said Frac or charter guys don't wear uniforms, rather I was talking about HATS. Do you guys wear hats? I don't think so. Your company doesn't make you wear them. Ours does. That is the point. And I know there are a lot of lazy azz airline pilots that would rather blend into the crowd rather than stand in front of it. That really is too bad. If you aren't comfortable in the outfit, you can take part of it off in the cockpit(or all of it if you are at Southwest ). Otherwise, wear it as advertised or go somewhere else.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[slapstick]

argue all you want. the fact remains - girls like the double breasted uniform.

 

[400ADude]

argue all you want. the fact remains - girls like the double breasted uniform.

Women like a nice paycheck and if you wear a double breasted uniform then a lot of women by default won't like you. Get your old payrates back and you are set!

 

[FDJ2]

It's part of the uniform, wear it.

 

[Max Powers]

Just wear it, and if you want to rebel against Delta, wear it like a baret and pretend you are an Air France Frog.

A lot of people make fun of the "Russian Sub Commander" uniform, but in reality it looks good, and our profession demands respect. If you want to look sloppy and discheveled, do it on your own time.
Bye Bye--General Lee

So you don't wear your hat and you look "sloppy and discheveled" ? Give me a break. Hats are hold overs from the old days when showers were hard to come by so you needed to cover your grease mop hair.

Once again the general shows his dumbness.

 

[waka]

That jacket can partially cover a big gut too I suppose, I have seen it on some Captains.

Incorrect. A double breasted jacket actually enhances a big gut. A traditional two or three button jacket is more slimming.


As for the folks talking about how the hat commands respect; That's BS too. What? Let's say there is an issue in the cabin on the ground and a hatless Captain comes back to address it. The misbehaving passenger doesn't respect the Captain. Then the Captain returns to the cockpit to don his hat and goes back to the passenger. Will the misbehaving passenger all of a sudden generate a newly found respect for the now hatted Captain? Give me a break! I'm all for wearing what your employer tells you. However, don't be so pretentious and say that a friggin' hat "commands respect". Or else you had better respect those Skycaps as an authority figure!

 

[DYLIN]

As for the folks talking about how the hat commands respect; That's BS too. What? Let's say there is an issue in the cabin on the ground and a hatless Captain comes back to address it. The misbehaving passenger doesn't respect the Captain. Then the Captain returns to the cockpit to don his hat and goes back to the passenger. Will the misbehaving passenger all of a sudden generate a newly found respect for the now hatted Captain? Give me a break! I'm all for wearing what your employer tells you. However, don't be so pretentious and say that a friggin' hat "commands respect". Or else you had better respect those Skycaps as an authority figure!

That is the type of argument a little kid makes. Twisted logic and a weak debate point overall.

When did someone say if you went and got a hat and put it on, a situation would change? That's right, you made it up.

The point is, from the beginning, if you go up the jetway to the gate to lay down the law with them in regards to some PIC decision you've had to make that they won't like, if you show up looking like a slob they are more likely to think that your decision is equally sloppy.

If you go up the jetway looking nice and perhaps wearing a hat and jacket, in their sub-conscience you are a figure of more authority.

 

[waka]

When did someone say if you went and got a hat and put it on, a situation would change? That's right, you made it up.

No, I didn't make it up. Some junior folks, like you, think a hat is necessary to command respect. It is called an inference. Look it up in the dictionary. Inferences are accomplished by using your brain and reading between the lines.

That is the type of argument a little kid makes. Twisted logic and a weak debate point overall. (did a little kid write this "sentence"?)

The point is, from the beginning, if you go up the jetway to the gate to lay down the law with them in regards to some PIC decision you've had to make that they won't like, if you show up looking like a slob they are more likely to think that your decision is equally sloppy.

If you go up the jetway looking nice and perhaps wearing a hat and jacket, in their sub-conscience (??? huh? ) you are a figure of more authority.

You're one to talk about a "little kid" argument.

A. Since when is a hat necessary for looking "nice" and not looking like a slob?

B. How does a hat contribute to a PIC decision?

C. Little kids write in incomplete sentences and try to pass them off as complete sentences.....s-u-b-c-o-n-s-c-i-o-u-s-l-y or otherwise

Nice try sonny.

 

[DYLIN]

No, I didn't make it up. Some junior folks, like you, think a hat is necessary to command respect. It is called an inference. Look it up in the dictionary. Inferences are accomplished by using your brain and reading between the lines.



You're one to talk about a "little kid" argument.

A. Since when is a hat necessary for looking "nice" and not looking like a slob?

B. How does a hat contribute to a PIC decision?

C. Little kids write in incomplete sentences and try to pass them off as complete sentences.....s-u-b-c-o-n-s-c-i-o-u-s-l-y or otherwise

Nice try sonny.

You must be a real treat to fly with, assuming seniority, experience, calling people sonny, et cetera.

Anyway, the hat does not contribute to any decision. I never said it did. You made that up.

Lack of a hat does not make one look like slob. I never said that either. You made that up by reading between the lines.

The hat, part of a uniform, distinguishes one from the crowd. That is all there is to it. Nothing to do with the hat itself. I'm referring to the uniform and the hat simply may be part of it.

 

[snow-back]

Several years ago in ATL, I was trying to get to the aircraft after multiple gate changes. After going from E to T back to B, I was heading down the escalator, sweating my ass off. I took off my hat and put it on my bag. As I was going down the escalator, a fellow Delta pilot was coming up the other side. This guy was pushing 300 lbs and he looked at me with a scowl, shook his head and pointed to his head as a reminder for me to put on my hat. That was the last time I wore my hat. The hat is a joke and anyone who thinks an airline pilot commands respect by wearing the hat, is probably the type who wears their uniform to get their mail because it impresses the chicks.

PS: You don't get paid to wear a hat!

 

[cocknbull]

PS: You don't get paid to wear a hat!

You get paid to do your job. Part of doing your job is following company procedures. Wearing your hat is company procedure.

This part is not directed at snow-back:

Someone somewhere well above our pay grade has determined that there is significant value in wearing the hat. That is why it is company policy. You don't get paid to make up your own rules you get paid to follow the rules. Instead of wasting time debating stupid points just put your cover on and shut up!

PS: Life would be easier for me without the hat. I wear way too much hair gel and when I take the hat off my hair is molded into some real funky positions. With that said I don't make decisions on Delta uniform policy so I must follow the will of those who do.

The best way for the anti-hat types to get their voices heard is to call their association reps and not argue their point on Flightinfo.

 

[GogglesPisano]

The fact is that when you are overseas, pilots are still treated with a great deal more respect than in the US. It may not be "the glory days of Pan Am," anymore but it is still a lot closer than what we have in the US with starvation wages and ... well, you know the rest.

As an interesting consequence (or causation) airline pilots overseas look a lot sharper than typical US pilots. The uniforms are more traditional and the jackets are usually worn at all times.

Delta is trying to be a gobal powerhouse and has to compete with that image.

If all you are familiar with is a spikey-haired, gelled up ipodoson, you probably don't understand how important the uniform is to some of us who have spent a lot of time overseas.

Rag away, ladies.

 

[cocknbull]

spikey-haired, gelled up ipodoson, you probably don't understand how important the uniform is to some of us who have spent a lot of time overseas.

Rag away, ladies.

LOL, I always look nicer than the captains with their feathered 80s haircut and mustache!

 

[Occam's Razor]

PS: You don't get paid to wear a hat!

You get paid to operate the aircraft, and make decisions.

You could do that without a tie, stripes on your shoulders, or wings on your chest.

But you wear those other three items, don't you?

Why?

None of those items give you "authority"...they're just uniform parts. Maybe the reason Delta pilots wear hats is because of discipline. Not the Chief Pilot vs. Line Pilot discipline...but self-discipline. It's a rule, and the hallmark of our profession is following the rules. If Delta makes hats optional (as they became at NWA), then pilots can choose. Until then, it's a rule. Those who pick-and-choose which rules they follow send a signal to others that they know better.

Mebbe it's a Marine thing...

 

[glasspilot1]

At TWA we had a mixture. Some wore hats and others didn't. Ya, sure it was a rule but I never saw it enforced; I think the Chief pilots and the rest had bigger problems to think about (Icahn, ect).

Most the Ozark guys left the hats at home, though I saw one around 1990 who wore his, but had chipped out the red paint in the hat emblem and replaced it with green!

I was a TWA hire and wore my hat. My attitude was I can comb my hair once in the morning and just cover it up the rest of the day!

After the AA deal was announced we wondered about the dreaded American hat police. To be honest I never saw anybody scolded about their lack of hat. After 9/11 it was not the most important thing a Chief pilot had to occupy his mind with.

 

[slapstick]

If all you are familiar with is a spikey-haired, gelled up ipodoson, you probably don't understand how important the uniform is to some of us who have spent a lot of time overseas.

You can just come out and say it: Freedom Airlines, Inc. ugh.

 

[FBN0223]

I think NWA and Delta had two of the sharpest looking uniforms in the business but NWA no longer really has a uniform especially in the winter months, OCT-APR, where one will certainly see several different versions (Leather coats, blazers, overcoats, hats, no hats and a few other versions that I won't mention.)

So here we are again with one uniform, hats and a pay raise. Sign me up.

 

[waka]

You must be a real treat to fly with, assuming seniority, experience, calling people sonny, et cetera.

Your hypocrisy shown below;

That is the type of argument a little kid makes.

You're the one that started with the ad hominems. Not that it bothers me but, I was just giving you a little taste of your own medicine

Anyway, the hat does not contribute to any decision. I never said it did. You made that up.

ahem. Remember, your reply below is to my post about the hat.

The point is, from the beginning, if you go up the jetway to the gate to lay down the law with them in regards to some PIC decision you've had to make that they won't like, if you show up looking like a slob they are more likely to think that your decision is equally sloppy.

Lack of a hat does not make one look like slob. I never said that either. You made that up by reading between the lines.

Again, above is your reply to my post about, you guessed it, the hat;

The hat, part of a uniform, distinguishes one from the crowd. That is all there is to it. Nothing to do with the hat itself. I'm referring to the uniform and the hat simply may be part of it.

However, in your previous post;

If you go up the jetway looking nice and perhaps wearing a hat and jacket, in their sub-conscience you are a figure of more authority.

Look, you're the one that started this with your implicit ad hominem about a "little kid" argument. Ironically to you, this is something a much younger person might say. Hence, "sonny" and "junior" fits.

My original post about the Captain going back to get his hat was partially a tongue-in-cheek example....as a swipe at humor (perhaps not your brand of humor). Nevertheless, the "humor" is applicable when people, like you, imply that a hat somehow generates or commands respect, subconsciously or otherwise.

Perhaps the next time you reply to someone's post, you could stay on the topic in that person's post. Otherwise, your intended meaning gets jumbled.

For the record, I don't get the impression that you're much fun to fly with either.