Regional pilots and airlines can kiss my a$$

[JustaNumber]

Options Slave,

Interesting post, and for the most part, true. There are some intricacies and nuances to the regional hiring situation that you have missed, though. Yes, I understand and can empathize with anyone hired at the less desirable regionals in the last few months, as any flying job beats rapidly losing currency in a dead market.

There is a big difference, though, between someone hired in the last few months at Mesa or Gojets, and someone hired at those places during the last few years when airline jobs were plentiful. To not apply at a well-paid regional and go directly to the bottom-feeders shows ignorance at best and industry-damaging-short-sightedness at worst. Gojets was specifically created to shaft the TSA guys, and to take a job there when others were readily available was a slap in the face of every TSA pilot. Mesa pilots have been flying under a criminally deficient contract, and to allow such an airline to continue to function by purposefully seeking employment there, especially when many other jobs were plentiful, in my view was intentionally damaging to the industry by people who didn't give a damn what the effects would be.

So yes, we are all whores in some respects, but some are worse than others. It is human nature to look out for number one, but especially when lots of choices are available, you have a responsibility to look at the big picture.

 

[DrewBlows]

W

HUGE difference in the dues being paid though. For that reason, there will always be a conflict, and is why ALPA will NEVER see "one union", and "for the betterment of the mainline" every single regional ALPA pilots' job is expendable. Makes ya feel all special sendin' that check in, doesn't it, considering 75% of it goes to ALPA National and only 25% of it goes to your own Union.

This is 100% wrong. Mainline ALPA carriers have always subsidized the regionals and likely always will. It's pretty simple, mainline companies have more pilots making more money, so when Pinnacle, or ASA, or Comair get one million for this or two million for that it's the mainline carriers footing the bill.

 

[bigshooter107]

MESA SUCKS! was i the first?

 

[ASACRJFlyer]

If it makes you feel better...

Slave,

As was pointed out in an earlier post, while we may all be "whores", some whores are "sluttier" than others. GoJet falls into that superslut category, as it was specifically created to screw the TSA pilots. We pilots are our own worst enemy but you've got to decide whose side you're on. Airlines can't get off the ground without pilots and if we as pilots had simply refused to work for GoJets, they would have quietly disappeared. But no, unfortunately, there are those who fail to see the bigger picture, and think, "I'm getting mine, screw everyone else." You talked about those senior mainline pilots who screwed us all by giving the RJ's to the regionals and about how selfish they were. I agree, they were selfish and short sighted, but how is going to work for an airline like GoJets, formed specifically to undercut a group of pilots, any different? Are you seeing a little bit of yourself when you look at those selfish senior mainline pilots? You should...

You can take that fatalistic, selfish and ignorant attitude that what you do as an individual doesn't matter, but it's the attitude and actions of you and people like you that have gotten us to where we are today. I know that my view may not be realistic, that if we all take the higher road, things will all work out. There are always going to be pilots ready to undercut their brethren for their own best interest. That whole scab argument of I've got a family to feed doesn't fly. We've all got families to feed so using the excuse of "I've got to get mine" to undercut someone else just shows how selfish and shortsighted that argument is, whether it's mainline pilots over decade ago or GoJets pilots today.

 

[ePilot22]

Dude...

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you, your mouth must be full of mainline D?@K and the red light on your porch glared, and I couldn't read what you said.

Your airline just charges more per john than mine does, which is why you're not hiring, and we are, btw.

So yeah. Your airline is better than mine. Today.

Relax, Killer.

After your summary of the FI regional forum posts from the last year you've been on here, I was just pointing out that you forgot the classic "my regional is better than your regional" mentality.

As for being a whore, it certainly takes one to know one. :beer: to your career on your hands and knees.





eP.

 

[Tank Commander]

Pilots throw pilots under the bus. ALPA just supplies the ballot for you to do it.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

This is 100% wrong. Mainline ALPA carriers have always subsidized the regionals and likely always will. It's pretty simple, mainline companies have more pilots making more money, so when Pinnacle, or ASA, or Comair get one million for this or two million for that it's the mainline carriers footing the bill.

Uh, no, it is NOT 100% wrong, it is 100% correct. 75% of your dues DO go to ALPA. Only 25% goes to your own Union to spend. I said nothing of subsidies. I have no doubt that many regional ALPA operators, especially small ones, operate in the red and ALPA picks up the tab.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Slave,

As was pointed out in an earlier post, while we may all be "whores", some whores are "sluttier" than others. GoJet falls into that superslut category, as it was specifically created to screw the TSA pilots. We pilots are our own worst enemy but you've got to decide whose side you're on. Airlines can't get off the ground without pilots and if we as pilots had simply refused to work for GoJets, they would have quietly disappeared. But no, unfortunately, there are those who fail to see the bigger picture, and think, "I'm getting mine, screw everyone else." You talked about those senior mainline pilots who screwed us all by giving the RJ's to the regionals and about how selfish they were. I agree, they were selfish and short sighted, but how is going to work for an airline like GoJets, formed specifically to undercut a group of pilots, any different? Are you seeing a little bit of yourself when you look at those selfish senior mainline pilots? You should...

You can take that fatalistic, selfish and ignorant attitude that what you do as an individual doesn't matter, but it's the attitude and actions of you and people like you that have gotten us to where we are today. I know that my view may not be realistic, that if we all take the higher road, things will all work out. There are always going to be pilots ready to undercut their brethren for their own best interest. That whole scab argument of I've got a family to feed doesn't fly. We've all got families to feed so using the excuse of "I've got to get mine" to undercut someone else just shows how selfish and shortsighted that argument is, whether it's mainline pilots over decade ago or GoJets pilots today.

GoJet was not created to get around a pilot group, it was created to get around the scope agreement between AA and TSAH, which prohited them from flying aircraft with more than 50 seats for ANY carrier. You can disagree with that if you want, but your argument was presented in court and lost. It was presented to the NMB and lost. Therefore, you can view me as a "sluttier" slut than you if you wish, however all the GoJet pilots hired from this point on for the foreseeable future will be furloughed airline pilots. It is selfish of people to think that a pilot should sit in the bread line for YEARS to protect another pilot who is working's job - especially since the damage has already been done by the regional whores already. TSA's pilots had the chance to vote on a single list and rather than do what the other regional pilots did in similar cases and making contract consessions to get everyone on one list, they voted no, opting to hopefully force the issue instead through the courts and the NMB, and they lost that gamble. The fact that they lost does not mean that a pilot going to work there now is violating any TSA contractual issues. Some TSA pilots disagree with that, as can be expected, however it is biased opinions and is not the major opinion. GoJet's pay is not that bad, it's in the middle of regional pay. It does not hurt the industry for a furloughed pilot to work at GoJet.

Disagree if you want. When you're furloughed and the choice is to fly left seat in a 402 for less than regional wages or GoJet, you might see things a little differently. I know I sure did.

Other than that, I agree with what you said.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Relax, Killer.

After your summary of the FI regional forum posts from the last year you've been on here, I was just pointing out that you forgot the classic "my regional is better than your regional" mentality.

As for being a whore, it certainly takes one to know one. :beer: to your career on your hands and knees.


eP.

Agreed. ;-|

 

[regionaltard]

GoJet was not created to get around a pilot group, it was created to get around the scope agreement between AA and TSAH, which prohited them from flying aircraft with more than 50 seats for ANY carrier.

Is that what GoJetters tell themselves when they look in the mirror? That flying could have been done by TSA seniority list pilots (not the issue decided by the single-carrier petition btw.) GoJet came to be simply because Hulas correctly assumed that there would be enough scumbags in the ranks willing to work for less in exchange for a shot at a seniority grab to offset the costs associated with obtaining a new certificate.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

You must fly for Mesaba. Who do you think ALPA will look out for? Mesaba and Pinnacle pilots or NWA mainline pilots? You cant be that ignorant. Maybe if you belonged to a separate union the FO' s wouldnt be making $17 an hr because thats all ALPA said they could get.

I love it. A JB pilot giving union advice. :laugh:

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Is that what GoJetters tell themselves when they look in the mirror? That flying could have been done by TSA seniority list pilots (not the issue decided by the single-carrier petition btw.) GoJet came to be simply because Hulas correctly assumed that there would be enough scumbags in the ranks willing to work for less in exchange for a shot at a seniority grab to offset the costs associated with obtaining a new certificate.

Says you. Might look in the mirror, before you tell someone else to look in the mirror. ALL flying by trans states was stolen from other carriers.

 

[regionaltard]

Says you. Might look in the mirror, before you tell someone else to look in the mirror. ALL flying by trans states was stolen from other carriers.

Sorry if I hit a nerve there. Good thing that I'm not one of these guys or I'd be moving in for the kill.

Regional flying as a whole wasn't stolen from anyone; it was given away by pilots who believed that it was beneath their dignity to perform it themselves.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

No nerve hit - it would take a lot more than words on a message board to hit a nerve for me. ;-)


Cheers.

 

[Speedtape]

I'll never work for a regional again. How any of you can put up with the horsesh!t that goes on there is beyond me. Pilots used to be upper-middle class. Executives, few of whom fly, have beaten the profession down below the level of a competent electrician, or a decent plumber. In this country, it is no longer a wise thing to hitch one's star to a large company, as management now views labor as a resource to be exploited as much as possible, instead of the stakeholders that we are.


Waco

That's why they call it Capitalism--or some form of it!