Regional pilots and airlines can kiss my a$$

[Tank Commander]

Pilots throw pilots under the bus. ALPA just supplies the ballot for you to do it.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

This is 100% wrong. Mainline ALPA carriers have always subsidized the regionals and likely always will. It's pretty simple, mainline companies have more pilots making more money, so when Pinnacle, or ASA, or Comair get one million for this or two million for that it's the mainline carriers footing the bill.

Uh, no, it is NOT 100% wrong, it is 100% correct. 75% of your dues DO go to ALPA. Only 25% goes to your own Union to spend. I said nothing of subsidies. I have no doubt that many regional ALPA operators, especially small ones, operate in the red and ALPA picks up the tab.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Slave,

As was pointed out in an earlier post, while we may all be "whores", some whores are "sluttier" than others. GoJet falls into that superslut category, as it was specifically created to screw the TSA pilots. We pilots are our own worst enemy but you've got to decide whose side you're on. Airlines can't get off the ground without pilots and if we as pilots had simply refused to work for GoJets, they would have quietly disappeared. But no, unfortunately, there are those who fail to see the bigger picture, and think, "I'm getting mine, screw everyone else." You talked about those senior mainline pilots who screwed us all by giving the RJ's to the regionals and about how selfish they were. I agree, they were selfish and short sighted, but how is going to work for an airline like GoJets, formed specifically to undercut a group of pilots, any different? Are you seeing a little bit of yourself when you look at those selfish senior mainline pilots? You should...

You can take that fatalistic, selfish and ignorant attitude that what you do as an individual doesn't matter, but it's the attitude and actions of you and people like you that have gotten us to where we are today. I know that my view may not be realistic, that if we all take the higher road, things will all work out. There are always going to be pilots ready to undercut their brethren for their own best interest. That whole scab argument of I've got a family to feed doesn't fly. We've all got families to feed so using the excuse of "I've got to get mine" to undercut someone else just shows how selfish and shortsighted that argument is, whether it's mainline pilots over decade ago or GoJets pilots today.

GoJet was not created to get around a pilot group, it was created to get around the scope agreement between AA and TSAH, which prohited them from flying aircraft with more than 50 seats for ANY carrier. You can disagree with that if you want, but your argument was presented in court and lost. It was presented to the NMB and lost. Therefore, you can view me as a "sluttier" slut than you if you wish, however all the GoJet pilots hired from this point on for the foreseeable future will be furloughed airline pilots. It is selfish of people to think that a pilot should sit in the bread line for YEARS to protect another pilot who is working's job - especially since the damage has already been done by the regional whores already. TSA's pilots had the chance to vote on a single list and rather than do what the other regional pilots did in similar cases and making contract consessions to get everyone on one list, they voted no, opting to hopefully force the issue instead through the courts and the NMB, and they lost that gamble. The fact that they lost does not mean that a pilot going to work there now is violating any TSA contractual issues. Some TSA pilots disagree with that, as can be expected, however it is biased opinions and is not the major opinion. GoJet's pay is not that bad, it's in the middle of regional pay. It does not hurt the industry for a furloughed pilot to work at GoJet.

Disagree if you want. When you're furloughed and the choice is to fly left seat in a 402 for less than regional wages or GoJet, you might see things a little differently. I know I sure did.

Other than that, I agree with what you said.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Relax, Killer.

After your summary of the FI regional forum posts from the last year you've been on here, I was just pointing out that you forgot the classic "my regional is better than your regional" mentality.

As for being a whore, it certainly takes one to know one. :beer: to your career on your hands and knees.


eP.

Agreed. ;-|

 

[regionaltard]

GoJet was not created to get around a pilot group, it was created to get around the scope agreement between AA and TSAH, which prohited them from flying aircraft with more than 50 seats for ANY carrier.

Is that what GoJetters tell themselves when they look in the mirror? That flying could have been done by TSA seniority list pilots (not the issue decided by the single-carrier petition btw.) GoJet came to be simply because Hulas correctly assumed that there would be enough scumbags in the ranks willing to work for less in exchange for a shot at a seniority grab to offset the costs associated with obtaining a new certificate.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

You must fly for Mesaba. Who do you think ALPA will look out for? Mesaba and Pinnacle pilots or NWA mainline pilots? You cant be that ignorant. Maybe if you belonged to a separate union the FO' s wouldnt be making $17 an hr because thats all ALPA said they could get.

I love it. A JB pilot giving union advice. :laugh:

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Is that what GoJetters tell themselves when they look in the mirror? That flying could have been done by TSA seniority list pilots (not the issue decided by the single-carrier petition btw.) GoJet came to be simply because Hulas correctly assumed that there would be enough scumbags in the ranks willing to work for less in exchange for a shot at a seniority grab to offset the costs associated with obtaining a new certificate.

Says you. Might look in the mirror, before you tell someone else to look in the mirror. ALL flying by trans states was stolen from other carriers.

 

[regionaltard]

Says you. Might look in the mirror, before you tell someone else to look in the mirror. ALL flying by trans states was stolen from other carriers.

Sorry if I hit a nerve there. Good thing that I'm not one of these guys or I'd be moving in for the kill.

Regional flying as a whole wasn't stolen from anyone; it was given away by pilots who believed that it was beneath their dignity to perform it themselves.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

No nerve hit - it would take a lot more than words on a message board to hit a nerve for me. ;-)


Cheers.

 

[Speedtape]

I'll never work for a regional again. How any of you can put up with the horsesh!t that goes on there is beyond me. Pilots used to be upper-middle class. Executives, few of whom fly, have beaten the profession down below the level of a competent electrician, or a decent plumber. In this country, it is no longer a wise thing to hitch one's star to a large company, as management now views labor as a resource to be exploited as much as possible, instead of the stakeholders that we are.


Waco

That's why they call it Capitalism--or some form of it!

 

[wacoflyr]

That's why they call it Capitalism--or some form of it!

The problem is this form of capitalism is self destructive. Would you reccomend this occupation to some eager 20 year old? I would hope not. They would be far, far better off getting in to health care, or becoming pharmicists. Yes, there are many pilots on the street right now, a problem that will get worse in the next few months. But eventually, maybe as soon as next year, the country's need to fly will start to reassert itself, and airline companies will hire again. They will, if you are an optimist, suck up maybe 50% of the pilots they laid off, and the other 50% will tell them to pound sand. So where will they find pilots? It takes time and money to make a pilot. With the price of fuel so high, the $120,000 green FO is right around the corner. Would you assume that kind of debt for this industry? Some will of course(brains are optional in this world) but most will not. The upshot: I predict that the pilot shortage is actually going to get much, much worse. Of course I, like all of us, am already here. And I wouldn't trust an airline company with my future ever again. I have moved over to the fractional side, and I am never going back. Is it better over here? I hope so. It is so far. I would be an idiot, however, not to hedge my bets. My family is counting on me, and I am working to develop other forms of income as we speak. I hope every pilot does the same, so that none of us has to go bankrupt so that some executive can buy a third home in the Bahamas.

Wacoflyr

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

That is why we have unions.... imagine what this job/carrer would be with this destructive capitalism if we didn't have self representation and rights.....

I'd say foreign nationals would be flying our jets.... just like you see many foreign doctors and dentist in the medical field....


It is not that capitalism is bad... no its a great market system.. but it needs to be regulated and disciplined like everything in life...

Right now.. capitalism doesn't meet real needs of people.. it manufactures needs that people don't need or want....

 

[Caspian27]

Ok... how about his... why doesn't Rhode Island suceed from the Federal gov't?

Because there is no such thing as "to suceed." To withdraw from government they'd have to: secede.

 

[CitationUltra]

Only kidding. Just want to get your attention. Please explain this to me. Why hasnt every regional pilot left ALPA and formed a union for regional pilots and airlines. ALPA throws you guys under the bus. Their main concern is for mainline and in my opinion its a conflict of interest to represent the regional guys and mainline guys.
Anybody?

It's been done again and again, but forming and maintaining an independent union that can accomplish anything is beyond the means of most regional airline pilot groups.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Individually, yes. If they all joined, it could be sustained. Look how many regional pilots are ALPA, now. RALPA could definitely be maintained if they all got on board.

 

[Goose Egg]

This thread is just another reminder of what a collosal waste of time the regional forum is. I'm really starting to tire of being blamed for decisions that I had no part in making and conditions which I am powerless to change. See ya.

-Goose