contract military pilots overseas

[xjhawk]

I mentioned this in a previous thread a while back. The response I got was not the "jist" of the idea or question. I have seen reports of civilian pilots flying military type missions in A/C such as the Shorts in Afganistan and Iraq. I know its very hard to get a flying job in the army (flying fixed wing) unless you are already a helicopter pilot. I know pilots like myself and others who have thousands of hours of experience at airlines flying turboprops and jets cannot get a posting to a job such as this. I am an officer with the MN Guard and am branched infantry, I am too old to go through pilot training for helicopters (37 years old) and would not think of giving up my job at my airline to take a contract job flying overseas (as was most of the responses from my last posting).

Why is the US military and state department using contract pilots to fly missions into what is obviously a combat zone. Guys like me would gladly take a deployment flying a shorts or similar A/C and the training to type in that type of A/C. Just an idea, seems like a good idea to me. Keeping those positions in house would be better for all involved. Contract flying might be good for some, but I think the professionalism of a commissioned officer (warrentls included) flying would be a better fit.

 

[SIU 130]

Most of the guys flying the contract aircraft are current military (guard/res) pilots or retired pilots. So I believe that they still have the "professionalism of a commissioned officer (warrentls included)". If you are interested Blackwater would probally be happy to train you! 2 months on one off for arround 130k a year is not bad. Also contract flying is just flying. You do not have all of the BS "RedTape" "up and commers" "professional OPR bullet officers" "stab you in the back" officers of our current military interfearing in simple daily ops. Yes I have a close friend flying contract missions in Afganistan and a brother who will probally join him when he returns from the AOR. I have flown on numorous deployments in Iraq and Afganistan and I am happy to share the airspace with the PROFESSIONAL CONTRACT pilots.

 

[SIU 130]

Sorry, I should of used Spell-check
· Most of the guys flying the contract aircraft are current military (guard/res) pilots or retired pilots. So I believe that they still have the "professionalism of a commissioned officer (warrants included)". If you are interested Black water would probably be happy to train you! 2 months on one off for around 130k a year is not bad. Also contract flying is just flying. You do not have all of the BS "Red Tape" "up and comers" "professional OPR bullet officers" "stab you in the back" officers of our current military interfering in simple daily ops. Yes I have a close friend flying contract missions in Afghanistan and a brother who will probably join him when he returns from the AOR. I have flown on numerous deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan and I am happy to share the airspace with the professional contract pilots.

 

[xjhawk]

See this is the response I get, do not get so touchy about your contract pilots who are your buddies. I too know of contract pilots and I know they are professional. Once again I get the-try blackwater or someone else. Thats not what I am saying, I am saying I am not willing to give up my job as a Captain at an airline. What I am saying is that there are perfectly qualified pilots who are not military pilots who could accomplish this mission as military pilots. I do think there are good contracts out there, but when I am in country, and need to be transported to the other side of Afganistan or Iraq, I would rather have it be by a military pilot on a military bird.

I made the preface of my post that I did not want to hear "try blackwater". Maybe I should have also said that I did not want someone defending contract pilots. Yes I do believe most are professional, but I also know there are so many cool videos of blackwater pilots doing crazy things in their aircraft. Guess what? Thats not professional, fun yes, professional not.

Anyways, I am sure I am getting away from my point. Why not have a guard or reserve unit with a cadre of instructors for one of those transport birds (shorts 212?), staff the deployments with temporarily assigned Officers trained (type rated and a train up) who are branched in other branches willing to take the deployment which comes with the assignment. Thats my point. Military mission= military pilot+Military A/C.

 

[pony251]

xjhawk, what you mention is already being done to a degree. For example, the guard is asking for volunteers to cross-train for the RC-26. I would imagine they don't ask non-aviation rated officers to fly because you are not a known quantity. It is cheaper to contract out for a temporary period than stand up a whole unit and pay for it. Contractors are also far more expendable than military members, sorry contract flyers. Just ask the poor bastards that just got rescued from columbia.

 

[Captain Happy]

To answer what I believe is the core of your question...

There are certain jobs that need to be done that the state department doesnt or cant involve the military in. Also certain countries wont allow u s military aircraft in their airspace, or atleast in very limited numbers.

I hope that helps.

 

[bagasticks]

There would not be nearly enough manpower to fill the MANY gov't contracts. If it werent for all of the contractors in the AOR, we'd have to reinstate the draft. . .just my .02

 

[Pirate]

Your looking for people to agree that because you are in the military and you are a pilot that there should be some type of special flying program that you can be a part of. It ain't going to happen. To be on orders and at the controls of an aircraft requies that you go to military pilot training. Just because you have civilian experiance doesn't mean you get to go to some short type course and get winged.

Look at it the other way. Your an Infantry officer. I know how to fire a gun. I've had some basic move-shot-communicate type training. Why can't I lead a security team in the AOR......because it is not my trade.

You spent years learning your trade. I spent years learning mine. Flying a civilian airline does not qualify you to be a military pilot. It's not harder but it is different and it takes years to learn to do well. I don't care how many hours you have.

We use contractors to fill niches. Most are trained former military pilots. They are cheaper and when the war is over you can cancel the contract. If they are shot down in Columbia it sucks but they are not uniformed military and they ARE NOT POWs. They are civilian hostages.

I see you logic but your idea is not a good one.

 

[414Flyer]

Anyways, I am sure I am getting away from my point. Why not have a guard or reserve unit with a cadre of instructors for one of those transport birds (shorts 212?),

Bastard child of a Shorts and a Casa-212?

 

[xjhawk]

We use contractors to fill niches

I guess my point was why not use military officers who are qualified pilots to fill these niches on a branch detail temporary basis.

I know I have looked into the army's flight training, its very comprehensive and from what I can see, is nothing like airline flying (obviously a different mission end state). But if you can train a non-military contract pilot, you can train a airline pilot who is an army officer the same, then you would be using in house assets for in country flying. I am more leaning towards the transportation assets they use to transport soldiers and equipment from camp to camp, not the spec ops (black ops) which is an entirely different ball game. I am an army Guard officer now, on active duty I was a Ranger, Paratrooper, and a Light Infantry line dog. I like the Infantry, I have well over 10 years experience doing it, but I like flying more. I AM TOO OLD to go through army flight training for Helos, but would love a shot at flying fix wings if they had a program which I could join as I have described.

Thanks to those who have put in their two cents, I am not trying to say contract pilots are inferior, I am just saying in house seems like a better fit for those soldiers who have to use that transportation.

Sua Sponte Rangers
Geronimo "All the Way" 1/509th PIR
Nec aspera terrent Wolfhounds 2/27 INF

 

[JohnnyP]

.....

Bastard child of a Shorts and a Casa-212?

Shorts 212-----God that would be an ugly plane....Can you imagine?.......

I wouldn't bag on the contract pilots too much....A lot of them have been around the neighborhood for quite some time and know the areas very well.....Flying 100hrs+ per month for a few years in the area gets you pretty well seasoned up after a while....And the barrel roll & river running crowd is a super small minority.....every place (mil included) has its 1%.....

 

["Luke"]

There have been civilian pilots spraying poppy fields and other "combat type" missions for years. Air America did a pretty good job using civilian pilots as well. I personally think it's just a way for the politicians to line their friends pockets with the money from the contracts. Anyway, the Army needs more boots on the ground, not in the air.

 

[Deuce130]

Flying a civilian airline does not qualify you to be a military pilot. It's not harder ...

No, it sure doesn't. And, yes, it is.

 

[jherk02]

You would have to know how the "contract" was written to get a complete answer to your question. There are contracts out there that seek to hire civilian pilots, but one requirement might be a "graduate from USAF or USN UPT course."

Also, there is a liability issue if the aircraft is owned by the USGov. If that is the case then they (USGov) are probably going to want it flown by DoD rules, and one way to ensure that is to hire the pilots with that type of background. As long as there are enough applicants, there is no need to lift that requirement.

 

[727flier]

looking for contacts myself......

 

[avbug]

Why is the US military and state department using contract pilots to fly missions into what is obviously a combat zone.

What has being a combat zone got to do with the price of tea in china?

You're aware that half of the personnel in any such given area, often performing the same or similiar missions, are civillian, are you not?

Thanks to those who have put in their two cents, I am not trying to say contract pilots are inferior, I am just saying in house seems like a better fit for those soldiers who have to use that transportation.

Not really. No.

I do think there are good contracts out there, but when I am in country, and need to be transported to the other side of Afganistan or Iraq, I would rather have it be by a military pilot on a military bird.

That may be, but when you are in that place, at that time, what you think or want really doesn't matter.

Keeping those positions in house would be better for all involved. Contract flying might be good for some, but I think the professionalism of a commissioned officer (warrentls included) flying would be a better fit.

How perfectly closed-minded, arrogant, and ignorant of you.

Thats not what I am saying, I am saying I am not willing to give up my job as a Captain at an airline.

You needn't say any more. That single sentence sums it up quite clearly.

Of course, you'll hear only what you want to hear, and whine and cry about what you don't.