New Bid for USAIR EAST Pilots?

[MCDU]

Word is maybe a new bid and no furloughs due to the training cost involved. Will learn more when the the pilots Union meet July 16th.
With only 95 furloughs and the amount of training required to basically train about 80% of 190 F/Os positions it does not makes sense to furlough. With such an old pilot group one can easily just wait it out. We are half the size we use to be and are at min. fleet size except for the 190's.

Never forget that USAIR once had almost 6000 pilots and now are closer to 3000. The airlines that picked up our flying have been Mesa, Brickyard, Air Wisconsin and PSA.

Marty

 

[MK82Man]

I'm glad USAPA and the East Coast pilots have a plan to prevent their 3% (125) East Coast furloughs. And I'm sure USAPA is hard at work developing a plan to prevent the 10% (175) furloughs on the West Coast as well, right? Not.

How in the world will the East pilots be able to justify the retention of new hires and the elimination of West mainline pilots?

Another clear violation of the Transition Agreement.

How wonderful for your guys …

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Marty,

US Airways had 6076 pilots before 9/11.

Sincerely,
Formerly #4997

 

[PositiveRate]

MK82,

Take a deep breath and relax...this may be good news for both sides. God knows, we've gotten but bad news for some time now.

 

[two leg commute]

Word is maybe a new bid and no furloughs due to the training cost involved. Will learn more when the the pilots Union meet July 16th.
With only 95 furloughs and the amount of training required to basically train about 80% of 190 F/Os positions it does not makes sense to furlough. With such an old pilot group one can easily just wait it out. We are half the size we use to be and are at min. fleet size except for the 190's.

Never forget that USAIR once had almost 6000 pilots and now are closer to 3000. The airlines that picked up our flying have been Mesa, Brickyard, Air Wisconsin and PSA.

Marty


Marty,

One can easily wait it out? Are you serious? Removing the entertainment systems on domestic flights, daily loss of 5+ million dollars a day, oil still rising, labled an in between airline.....

Yes we have cash on hand but the situation is bad and getting worse. In my opinion, somehow Doug will get around the TA while avoiding BK and the next announcement will be the rapid drawdown of the 73's. Training cost are factored into a companies decision to furlough, Hogg said they are planning on furloughs being out atleast 24 months. And if we are still furloughing in the spring the situation has become dire, his words not mine.

Good luck to all................

 

[Colonel Savage]

I've gotta call BS on this one. Nice try though.

 

[iflyhigh]

First of all Lyle Hogg stated...

There are 3 lists. West List, East List and New hire list. This is spelled out in the TA.

Unless the company starts violating the TA, Lyle specifically stated that all New hires will have to be furloughed first in order to furlough the guys on the West list, who have been here since 2005.

So any other discussion not to furlough on the East, thus leaving new hires on property, could result in litigation.

 

[Lampshade]

First of all Lyle Hogg stated...

There are 3 lists. West List, East List and New hire list. This is spelled out in the TA.

Unless the company starts violating the TA, Lyle specifically stated that all New hires will have to be furloughed first in order to furlough the guys on the West list, who have been here since 2005.

So any other discussion not to furlough on the East, thus leaving new hires on property, could result in litigation.

1. When did boss Hogg say that ALL third listers New hires went before AWA guys? He said that all new hires on the West list would go first I believe. Dave O. still is on schedule to be gone in Sept yet all the new hires won't be gone until early 09.

2. If they did Furlough out of seniority wouldn't that be a grievance not a lawsuit?

3. they're all cheats and liars.

 

[JAB31]

Didnt they already start to train guys down to the 190? I heard there are 2 classes for July(not new hires)One started on he 9th and another one starts @ the 21st? Also, how much reduction in flying will US see this fall ? Any guesses?

 

[get2flyin]

Word is maybe a new bid and no furloughs due to the training cost involved. Will learn more when the the pilots Union meet July 16th.
With only 95 furloughs and the amount of training required to basically train about 80% of 190 F/Os positions it does not makes sense to furlough. With such an old pilot group one can easily just wait it out. We are half the size we use to be and are at min. fleet size except for the 190's.

Oh Marty, thank you for sharing this wonderful news! I'm sure the unrepresented West pilots will sleep a little better knowing that some kid off the street will be throwing gear in PHL while the 4+ year guys are trying to find work elsewhere. (sigh) I'm sure Bradford still can't figure out why there aren't any checks arriving from West of the Mississippi.

Never forget that USAIR once had almost 6000 pilots and now are closer to 3000. The airlines that picked up our flying have been Mesa, Brickyard, Air Wisconsin and PSA.

Never forget you didn't lose the flying. You gave it away.

 

[PHXFLYR]

And the companies that they gave it away to(Air Wisconsin,Chataqua in all it's various forms and the wholly-owned folks) do the job a hell of a lot better than the company they replaced. Even Mesa is an improvement over anything mainline offers.

PHXFLYR

 

[eatme]

Here we go again...

 

[SOVT]

I'm sure the unrepresented West pilots will sleep a little better knowing that some kid off the street will be throwing gear in PHL while the 4+ year guys are trying to find work elsewhere. (

It's my impression from this board that the west pilots are choosing not to be represented. if thats the case how can you complain about not being represented.

It seems to me... pay your dues, volunteer for positions, participate in general and you will be welcomed into the fold.

 

[Colonel Savage]

And the companies that they gave it away to(Air Wisconsin,Chataqua in all it's various forms and the wholly-owned folks) do the job a hell of a lot better than the company they replaced. Even Mesa is an improvement over anything mainline offers.

How do you figure that?

 

[get2flyin]

It's my impression from this board that the west pilots are choosing not to be represented. if thats the case how can you complain about not being represented.

It seems to me... pay your dues, volunteer for positions, participate in general and you will be welcomed into the fold.

(sigh) If it was only that simple. There are a number of reasons why the West won't touch USAPA.

The USAPians have no interest in West representation. They seek a West figure head to offer the perception of representation. A few Westies asked about West Rep positions and were told they would have to sign something that stated they they supported USAPA's agenda. *(Read: a redo to the seniority list that is DOH based). Nobody would sign, so nobody can play with their dollies.

Besides that, they want the West's money which they've already demonstrated they will spend on frivolous lawsuits against West pilots.

I think primarily, the West pilots refuse to join because they know their membership will only be used to attempt to make USAPA appear credible. While the reference is extreme, I think it's similar to inviting the 1940's Jewish to join the Nazi party and telling them it would allow them to "change things from the inside". Why join the group whose stated goal is to destroy you?

I'm sure marty will offer some clever insights to how I'm "mis-informed". Make your own decision.

 

[reepicheep]

Never forget that USAIR once had almost 6000 pilots and now are closer to 3000.

Never forget that this aviation powerhouse that "owns the northeast" pulled off this remarkable feat not once, but twice. Personally, as a former America West type, I've had my fill with being "saved" by the east. Please go find someone else to rescue.

 

[f15boomer]

And the companies that they gave it away to(Air Wisconsin,Chataqua in all it's various forms and the wholly-owned folks) do the job a hell of a lot better than the company they replaced. Even Mesa is an improvement over anything mainline offers.

PHXFLYR

Well,

If you think Mesa is a better deal than maybe you should quit and be an F/O for OJ. I'm sure he would love to have an ex-AWA Captain in the right seat.

 

[JetMonkey]

Never forget that USAIR once had almost 6000 pilots and now are closer to 3000. The airlines that picked up our flying have been Mesa, Brickyard, Air Wisconsin and PSA.

Marty

I believe your figure is slightly skewed. You see, you and I'm sure many of your clan tend to forget there's another group of pilots that carry that Scarlett letter-of-a-name "US Airways" around too. So that number is actually closer to 5000. Never forget that...

 

[BeCareful!]

Well, that's incorrect. In 2001 I was around 5400 and had more than 600 guys junior. I believe the number was 6023 or something. What "group" are you talking about?

 

[Lampshade]

he's talking about "the present" and not about the "the past" ... strange concept, time to get "a clue".

 

[BeCareful!]

As for the notion that USAPA only represents East pilots, this is from the latest phone message:


[FONT=Arial,sans-serif]Item Three - [/FONT][FONT=Arial,sans-serif] The Negotiating Advisory Committee (NAC) released a recent update which reported that the Committee was successful in securing an East parity Expanded Leave of Absence (EVLA) program for the West pilots. The NAC will meet again with Management starting July 14th.[/FONT]

 

[get2flyin]

As for the notion that USAPA only represents East pilots, this is from the latest phone message:

[FONT=Arial,sans-serif]Item Three - [/FONT][FONT=Arial,sans-serif]The Negotiating Advisory Committee (NAC) released a recent update which reported that the Committee was successful in securing an East parity Expanded Leave of Absence (EVLA) program for the West pilots. The NAC will meet again with Management starting July 14th.[/FONT]

The East was able to secure a system allowing West pilots to leave the company, even if only for a very short time? Thanks! How about a program that allows West pilots to KEEP their jobs? Oh, and was there any word in the latest phone message about the outcome of that pesky lawsuit?

 

[LearLove]

as for the orginal topic/post on this thread:

Word is maybe a new bid and no furloughs due to the training cost involved. Will learn more when the the pilots Union meet July 16th.
With only 95 furloughs and the amount of training required to basically train about 80% of 190 F/Os positions it does not makes sense to furlough. With such an old pilot group one can easily just wait it out. We are half the size we use to be and are at min. fleet size except for the 190's.

Never forget that USAIR once had almost 6000 pilots and now are closer to 3000. The airlines that picked up our flying have been Mesa, Brickyard, Air Wisconsin and PSA.

Marty

No I don't think the displacement/furlough bid has been cx'd or any other bid has been put out from what I can gather.

I think the rumor started when guys getting bumped off group 2 (AB/boeing) were assigned 190 classes/training then had them changed (the dates not equip) or postponed.

I'd bet the changes in class (e190) were/are due to some conflicts in sked with 190 sim availability or some other (re)training related mess.

FWIW: know one guy (AB FO) who was assigned a late July 190 class that was called and told his class was on hold. I also know another guy (737 FO) who has a 22 july 190 class (give or take a day) and as far as he knows has not been changed.

 

[Green]

This is actually good news for the west. The transition agreement states that the company cannot furlough west pilots until all newhires are gone. Obviously they can furlough west while former furloughees are working but they can't furlough west with newhires still flying the 190. ...

 

[Lampshade]

This is actually good news for the west. The transition agreement states that the company cannot furlough west pilots until all newhires are gone. Obviously they can furlough west while former furloughees are working but they can't furlough west with newhires still flying the 190. ...

I wouldn't believe that for a second.

 

[BeCareful!]

he's talking about "the present" and not about the "the past" ... strange concept, time to get "a clue".

Ah, such venom.....do you milk that from the rattle snakes trolling your desert landscaping?

The original post was about the past, and the response didn't make clear which number was in question.

Speaking of concepts, I thought I'd post a few concepts that seem blurry to the West posters here:

1) FlightMisInfo.com is not the real world. Really, none of this stuff you guys post has any bearing on anything.

2) Thousands of dissatisfied ALPA members have congratulated us and asked us how to rid themselves of the Beast.

3) USAPA representation is available to all of us. Non-membership is a choice you guys are making, and it's a pretty stupid one.

4) USAPA's negotiation of the enhanced leave provisions in the East contract being offered to the West is something, it's a freekin' start, and it was done quickly on behalf of a group who doesn't pay dues, and who fights, kicks, and screams out loud on the Internet on a daily basis as well as mailing feces and all that other professional, responsible stuff. It's an indication that USAPA is here to do the right thing. But of course it's viewed here as nothing.

And, yes, to whoever asked, the phone message does address the case dismissal. As usual, it's not as cut and dried as you all make it seem here, but whatever. I have no illusion that USAPA is perfect, and I personally wish they'd focus on getting this group together. I really do believe that we could do better as a group independent of ALPA National, but, of course, we may never see this potential realized. Too bad.

 

[Dan Roman]

"2) Thousands of dissatisfied ALPA members have congratulated us and asked us how to rid themselves of the Beast."

Just to keep in perspective, there are a lot more ALPA members that feel you guys are idiots. I wouldn't gloat to much just because you are able to find a "dissatisfied airline pilot" there are a ton of them in todays economy and some will blame anything or anyone they can find for the dismal situation the industry is in.

 

[Lampshade]

4) USAPA's negotiation of the enhanced leave provisions in the East contract being offered to the West is something,

Might want to check and see what CAL UAL NWA are doing to offset furloughs before you start telling everyone how great USAPA is. :smash:

 

[BeCareful!]

"2) Thousands of dissatisfied ALPA members have congratulated us and asked us how to rid themselves of the Beast."

Just to keep in perspective, there are a lot more ALPA members that feel you guys are idiots..

Really, Dan? And you got this info from...? Did the Wilson Center conduct an ALPA poll (your dues $$ at work.)??

Do these same loyal ALPA members think the AA guys are idiots for leaving in 1964? Are the SWA and UPS pilots idiots, too?

You can spare us the "it was all about Nicolau" story, because it wasn't. ALPA has been identified as a self-serving, bloated, ineffective organization on this property for a loooong time, and their days were numbered Nic or no Nic.

 

[BeCareful!]

Might want to check and see what CAL UAL NWA are doing to offset furloughs before you start telling everyone how great USAPA is. :smash:

Since you seem to know, why don't you post it here so we can all examine the great accomplishments of these powerful ALPA MECs?