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C-Series announcement tomorrow?

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jonjuan

Honey Ryder
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Posts
4,155
Will this be the replacement for the Diesel-9????

http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080712.wbombardier0712/GIStory/

Bombardier expected to name launch customer of new C-Series

ERIC REGULY

Saturday, July 12, 2008

LONDON — Bombardier Inc. is set to move into direct competition with industry heavyweights Boeing and Airbus with the expected announcement Sunday morning of the launch customer for the new C-Series jet, a $3-billion program that has been an on-again, off-again project for four years.
Bombardier officials would not confirm or deny on Saturday that the C-Series, with 110 to 130 seats, had found a buyer or buyers among airlines or aircraft-leasing companies. But it is rolling out its top aerospace officials Sunday morning at the Farnborough air show, just outside of London, to make a major announcement. Analysts and fund managers assume it will be related to the C-Series.
The announcement will be made by Bombardier chief executive officer Pierre Beaudoin; Guy Hachey, the president of the Montreal company's aerospace division; and Gary Scott, president of Bombardier commercial aircraft.
Notice of the press conference went out Saturday, suggesting that Bombardier had nailed down a launch customer in the last few days. All the aerospace companies are keen to make big announcements at the bi-annual Farnborough show, one of the industry's top gatherings of aircraft buyers and sellers.
If the project goes ahead, it will create about 2,500 new jobs. It is expected that the plane will be built in Mirabel, near Montreal, though Missouri has been pushing hard to get a piece of the manufacturing action. The Canadian and Quebec governments would no doubt withdraw some or all of their proposed financial assistance if the plane were to be built outside of Canada. About one-third of the $3-billion development bill will come from government sources.
Bombardier is keen to push ahead with the C-Series in spite of the gloom in the airline industry, triggered by soaring fuel prices and an economic slowdown in North America and in Europe. That's because airlines that want to stay in business will have to retire their gas-guzzling clunkers and replace them with the most fuel-efficient jets, said Clifford Ransom, president of Ransom Research of Baltimore.
“The old jets are going to get parked in the desert,” he said.
Bombardier has claimed that the C-Series will consume about 15 per cent less fuel, and will be about 20 per cent cheaper to operate than current jets of comparable size. Mr. Ransom said airlines that cannot afford to buy the C-Series outright will be tempted to rent them from airline-leasing companies.
While the C-Series would compete with the Boeing 737, the Airbus 319 and their variants, Bombardier is apparently emboldened by lack of plans by either manufacturer to replace the small jets with more efficient models in the near term. This would leave Brazil's Embraer as the C-Series toughest competitor at first, though analysts assume Boeing and Airbus will eventually compete directly with the C-Series.
Mr. Beaudoin last month said the C-Series project is “very advanced” but would not confirm the rumours that the plane would be officially launched at Farnborough.
Analysts Jacques Kavafian of Canada's Research Capital has said Bombardier should be able to sell 3,000 of the aircraft over 20 years. If the plane is launched on Sunday, the first versions would be delivered in 2013.
 
Aviation Week quoted Bombardier as saying 20% fuel savings in their March article.
 
Aviation Week quoted Bombardier as saying 20% fuel savings in their March article.
20% over what? A DC-9? Hell, the 717 does that, and then some...

20% fuel savings over a CRJ-900 for an aircraft that seats 20-40% more people than a 90-seater would be something to shout about...
 
:rolleyes: Over the newest current generation aircraft. I guess that means the E190, 737, A319. That's what the article above says.
 
20-25% is on a per seat basis. They apparently are looking at a 150 seat version. Should be good competition for the 737-700s mid next decade.
 
Just on the paystub, unfortunately.

Thats up to the pilots to ensure the pay is on par with the 737s. Just because it says Bombardier doesnt mean it shouldn't pay well. Especially with 150 seats. ;)
 
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5g-I1zXlWpkEpuSUX9pghRfMdlBiw

Bombardier announces new CSeries regional jet to be built in Quebec

21 minutes ago
LONDON — Bombardier (TSX:BBD.B) announced the launch of a new CSeries regional jet on Sunday, saying the "greenest aircraft in its class" will be manufactured at the company's Mirabel plant north of Montreal.
The Montreal-based aerospace manufacturer announced its long-awaited launch in London, at the prestigious Farnborough Air Show in England.
"With the latest in system technologies and aerodynamics, the CSeries family of aircraft will revolutionize the economics and network strategies for airline operations in the 100-to 149-seat commercial market," said Pierre Beaudoin, Bombardier's president and chief executive officer.
The company said in a news release that German airline Lufthansa has signed a letter of interest for up to 60 aircraft, at a price of US$46.7 million each. It also said that discussions with a number of airlines worldwide "are progressing well.".....

...Other airlines that have been mentioned as potential customers down the road are Malaysian Airlines and U.S. airlines Northwest and Delta.
 
Fast forward to 2015...

Airbus announced new A330-RJ to be built in it's Toulouse plant

21 minutes ago
LONDON — European consortium Airbus announced the launch of a new A-330 regional jet on Sunday, saying the "greenest aircraft in its class" will be manufactured at the company's Toulouse plant near the Spanish border.
The European aerospace manufacturer announced its long-awaited launch in London, at the prestigious Farnborough Air Show in England.
"With the latest in system technologies and aerodynamics, the A-330RJ family of aircraft will revolutionize the economics and network strategies for airline operations in the 300 to 350 seat commercial market," said Gustav Humbart, Airbus's president and chief executive officer.
The company said in a news release that the US airline, Mesa, has signed a letter of interest for up to 60 aircraft, at a price of US$146.7 million each. It also said that discussions with a number of regional airlines worldwide "are progressing well.".....

...Other airlines that have been mentioned as potential customers down the road are PSA Airlines, Chautauqua Airlines, and Gulfstream International Airlines.
 
If DL/NWA are considering it, it just may be a replacement for the DC-9. It seems Delta is happy with the 737NGs they have, so no change there. What this says to me is DL/NW think that the C-series can do the light jet job better than Embraer, which may make Compass outdated (unless Compass gets them at a more management friendly payscale).

Or... hello Skywest, here is your new toy.
 
Compass isn't flying the E-190s with 100 seats. Compass was definitely created to replace some of the diesel 9 flying, but the C series (and the 190 I believe) are both larger than what Compass is allowed to fly. Hopefully the current fuel crises doesn't erode scope enough around the industry to take the C-series outside the mainlines, but things will be interesting as Chapter 11 looms if oil doesn't come down soon. Hopefully the pilots have truly had enough career erosion and will stand tall, even if it means one or more of the legacies must fall. If the C-series is allowed outside the mainlines, then how long would it be before the 73s and 320 series are all replaced and mainlines are only 75 and bigger and the regionals are the most the majority could hope for?
 
They don't need to call them "RJs" anymore.....The damage has already been done.....The mainline rates are now regional rates.....Mission accomplished......

Pay and workrules are like water....they seek the lowest level......
 
They don't need to call them "RJs" anymore.....The damage has already been done.....The mainline rates are now regional rates.....Mission accomplished......

Pay and workrules are like water....they seek the lowest level......

Kind of like bottom feeders such as yourself. The rjdc founded the lowest level, that's why the lawsuit! You should be proud.
 
If DL/NWA are considering it, it just may be a replacement for the DC-9. It seems Delta is happy with the 737NGs they have, so no change there. What this says to me is DL/NW think that the C-series can do the light jet job better than Embraer, which may make Compass outdated (unless Compass gets them at a more management friendly payscale).

Or... hello Skywest, here is your new toy.

Thats not going to be possible under the new scope provisions and that is a VERY good thing.
 
jonjuan--
Your avatar...nice...very nice.

On point, one of those articles included these details:

"Its wings will be built in Belfast, Northern Ireland, and the fuselage in China through a deal with the AVIC I state aviation company to invest $400 million in a new factory."

Missouri must have really messed up this deal :rolleyes:, but who can compete with forced labor?


"Bombardier said it would receive loans from the governments of Canada and Quebec as well as Northern Ireland and the British government to fund a third of the research and development costs. A similar funding system in place for Europe's Airbus is being challenged by Boeing in a key U.S.-European trade dispute."

Isn't Bombardier protesting Brazil's subsidy of Embraer? What's the difference?
 
Kind of like bottom feeders such as yourself.
Scope out RJ's, surely you must realize that when mainline outsources the DC9 flying, then mainline gets sucked down to compete with the alter ego competition.

By my figuring, the CRJ900/1000 and the E jets are not only a threat to the DC9's and MD8X, they also free up some 737's to backfil older 757's coming out of the fleet.

You can't scope them out. You have to scope them in.

I don't like Joe's bomb throwing, but he is right about how mainline ALPA has undermined itself. Joe did not participate in the negotiation of his scope. The mainline guys defined the bottom and made it bigger in the contracts they negotiated and their pilots ratified.
 
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Good Reuters Article posted above... Clarification on a significant savings given how much these airplanes are utilized. Delta's 737's go 13+ hours a day.

That is a slice of the mainstream airliner market which Bombardier's commercial aerospace chief Gary Scott believes is being neglected by Boeing -- the Seattle-based titan from which he defected to Bombardier four years ago.

"To our friends in Seattle, I say these airplanes are real and we are addressing a market space they have long ignored," he said, adding mockingly, "It's just a lousy half a trillion dollar market below 150 seats, we can leave that to Bombardier."


Airbus and Boeing have a combined backlog of about 1,100 aircraft of the types Bombardier where wants to poach business, and they have held off developing replacements partly to avoid undercutting the value of business on their order books.

The five-abreast CSeries will compete with the smaller version of the single-aisle Boeing 737 and Airbus A320 families for new business or replacement of old planes like the MD-80.

Besides Airbus and Boeing models, the CSeries will compete with the ERJ195 made by Brazil's Embraer (EMBR3.SA: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) (ERJ.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), Bombardier's main rival in its existing markets.
A Bombardier executive said the CSeries family, containing two variants with 110 and 130 seats respectively, would burn 20 percent less fuel per trip than its nearest Embraer rival, reaching the "high 20s" against the Boeing 737-600 or -700.

The CSeries aircraft marks a branching out from Bombardier's current lines of regional jets and turboprops, which hold up to 100 or 80 passengers respectively.
If there is an order coming, I do not see it until post merger and then perhaps with financing from AirFrance/KLM. Delta management does not want them in the mix, yet until the SLI & JPWA issues are signed, sealed and delivered (source AW&ST).
 
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If DL/NWA are considering it, it just may be a replacement for the DC-9. It seems Delta is happy with the 737NGs they have, so no change there. What this says to me is DL/NW think that the C-series can do the light jet job better than Embraer, which may make Compass outdated (unless Compass gets them at a more management friendly payscale).

Or... hello Skywest, here is your new toy.

I heard that rumor as well (That SkyWest might end up flying those for Continental if the campaign to get them to relax their scope is successful).
 
I heard that rumor as well (That SkyWest might end up flying those for Continental if the campaign to get them to relax their scope is successful).

Now that is funny!! The majority of the CAL pilots HAVE figured out the negative effects of what relaxing scope has done to all the other pilot groups. I wouldn't hold your breath hoping for that announcement. Why anyone would hope for larger "RJ's" at the regionals is beyond me.:erm:
 
If DL/NWA are considering it, it just may be a replacement for the DC-9. It seems Delta is happy with the 737NGs they have, so no change there. What this says to me is DL/NW think that the C-series can do the light jet job better than Embraer, which may make Compass outdated
The reason why Delta looked at and decided against the Embraer is that they thought it would be obsolete the day it arrived. The plan was a baby dreamliner, but that obviously isn't working out and Boeing is not motivated to replace the 737 as long as it continues to sell well and make profits.

I think we could very well see an order for these. Once the rush starts, there are a lot of airplanes due for replacement at American, NWA and Delta. We know Delta does not like being first in line, but the line might get long, quickly.
 
Kind of like bottom feeders such as yourself. The rjdc founded the lowest level, that's why the lawsuit! You should be proud.

Payrates and workrules will find a natural level towards the lower end of the spectrum in this business....It was the mainline MECs and ALPA national that have been too stupid to realize that...

They have conspired with management to foster competition within a brand for the flying.....This drags down the lower end rates which eventually drags down the top.....You were warned.....but you couldn't hear it with your head stuck up your A$$....
 
Scope out RJ's, surely you must realize that when mainline outsources the DC9 flying, then mainline gets sucked down to compete with the alter ego competition.

By my figuring, the CRJ900/1000 and the E jets are not only a threat to the DC9's and MD8X, they also free up some 737's to backfil older 757's coming out of the fleet.

You can't scope them out. You have to scope them in.

I don't like Joe's bomb throwing, but he is right about how mainline ALPA has undermined itself. Joe did not participate in the negotiation of his scope. The mainline guys defined the bottom and made it bigger in the contracts they negotiated and their pilots ratified.

The ALPA establishment only understands "bomb throwing"....Diplomacy and a false sense of brotherhood will get you nowhere in this loose association of independant contractors....

They were warned that this would happen, and yet they chose to partner with managment to create even lower paying jobs at MidAtlantic and Compass, while holding Jets4jobs agreements over the heads of carriers like PDT and ALG to drive down regional rates.....

The chickens have come home to roost.....
 
Joe,

ALPA does not understand bomb throwing, they marginalize you and defend their positions.

You have to appeal to the membership on a grass roots level. The majority of pilots have not made an issue out of scope to their Reps while they push pay rates, and equity. The Reps deliver what they are asked to deliver, pay rates and equity (as best they can with lousy scope).

Attacking ALPA will not get you what you say you want. Without ALPA, who is going to deliver for you, the student counsel?

The chickens aren't roosting. To the contrary, new hires are eggs - fragile and a few might have to get broken to make cake. The senior guys have been through hell and figure it is part of the initiation.
 
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Joe,

ALPA does not understand bomb throwing, they marginalize you and defend their positions.

You have to appeal to the membership on a grass roots level. The majority of pilots have not made an issue out of scope to their Reps while they push pay rates, and equity. The Reps deliver what they are asked to deliver, pay rates and equity (as best they can with lousy scope).

Attacking ALPA will not get you what you say you want. Without ALPA, who is going to deliver for you, the student counsel?

Fins....how do you propose "inclusive scope" for ASA, now that we have been sold to Skywest? I suspect you now want scope that excludes us.....

You even advocate a single list for the Compass folks while ignoring the Mesaba and CMR pilots....Talk about the mother of all DFR lawsuits....

Too late to stuff the genie back in the bottle Fins....The quagmire is too deep.....
 
Fins....how do you propose "inclusive scope" for ASA, now that we have been sold to Skywest? I suspect you now want scope that excludes us.....

You even advocate a single list for the Compass folks while ignoring the Mesaba and CMR pilots....Talk about the mother of all DFR lawsuits....

Too late to stuff the genie back in the bottle Fins....The quagmire is too deep.....


All you ever talk about is lawsuits :cool: Stop looking for a free ride :rolleyes:

As far as the genie in the bottle, i understand your nervous about the fact that more and more ex-regional pilots are getting to the majors and pushing for a change in scope. It should have never been relaxed and people are realizing that more and more everyday. The mentality IS changing and the mainline guys have seen what scope has done to degrade their QOLs and pay. Sorry if that bursts your bubble.
 
You even advocate a single list for the Compass folks while ignoring the Mesaba and CMR pilots....Talk about the mother of all DFR lawsuits....
Yes, we have a bilateral flow, concurrent seniority and a single MEC.

You have made a point that you would not want to be stapled on a mainline list. You've written against ALPA Certification on the SkyWest property. You bring seniority and representation problems to the table that Compass does not bring. You should be spending your time getting one list between ASA and SkyWest rather than throwing rocks at the Delta and NWA pilots (who are working out their problems well, so far).

I'll never give up as long as unity is a goal worth working towards.

I've heard about the mother of all DFR lawsuits before ... yawn. Hard to top US Air.
 

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