Avantair selling majority of its Phenom slots

[Guitar Guy]

From AIN:

Avantair Sells Phenom Positions To Executive AirShare


Central U.S. regional fractional provider Executive AirShare (EAS) last week signed an agreement to acquire 18 Embraer Phenom 100 delivery slots from Clearwater, Fla.-based Avantair, which offers shares in Piaggio Avanti twin turboprops. EAS also has an option to buy Avantair’s two remaining Phenom 100 positions. The move ends Avantair’s plans for the 20 very light jets, which the company ordered in October 2006. Under the deal, which was sanctioned by Embraer, EAS now has firm orders for 28 Embraer Phenom 100s and four Phenom 300s, with options on 12 more 100s and four more 300s. EAS’s first Phenom 100 will be delivered next June, 14 months earlier than the company’s original order for the VLJ. According to EAS chairman and CEO Robert Taylor, the deal will allow Avantair to focus on building its national program, while EAS can more quickly “expand our regional fractional program into new markets.” Kansas City, Mo.-based EAS currently operates four Beechjet 400As, five King Air 350s, five King Air C90Bs and a Beech Baron. The Beechjets are likely to be phased out after the Phenom 100s arrive, a company spokesman told AIN.

 

[johnsonrod]

That's interesting. I wonder who sought out whom. Did Avantair look for a buyer? I know that JetSuite (www.jetsuite.com) will also be fielding Phenom 100s soon. EAS already had orders for Phenoms - perhaps it has more national than regional (currently based out of the Midwest) ambitions...

I wonder how the Avantair pilots view this situation? I always felt that the Phenom didn't fit the efficient one-aircraft model that Avantair currently operates - it would have added complexity to their model. It is probably a good thing (plus they get some useful cash from the sale).

 

[RNObased]

Orders are one thing, getting them on the property is another.

 

[jonjuan]

Orders are one thing, getting them on the property is another.

Exactly. NJA had 20 CXs scheduled to deliver the past 2 years and just delivered the first new one in 2-years in May 2008. They simply weren't selling.
The $1.8 billion in NJA orders are just that. There's no obligation to actually deliver.

 

[RNObased]

Exactly. NJA had 20 CXs scheduled to deliver the past 2 years and just delivered the first new one in 2-years in May 2008. They simply weren't selling.
The $1.8 billion in NJA orders are just that. There's no obligation to actually deliver.

Well JJ, I would be willing to bet that your information as usual is bad. I have a hard time believing that the Citation X one of the most popular jets in the NJA fleet isn't selling, but I can check on that and get back to you.

But orders are again just that, orders.

 

[Helmsalee]

In indoc about 2 months ago, the X chief pilot said that we were getting about 14 this year and for the next couple of years. As far as growth is concerned, he also said that was about the same number of retirements so the fleet is stable. No growth but still taking deliveries.

 

[GSXR600]

Exactly. NJA had 20 CXs scheduled to deliver the past 2 years and just delivered the first new one in 2-years in May 2008. They simply weren't selling.
The $1.8 billion in NJA orders are just that. There's no obligation to actually deliver.

Soo what ever happaned with the 2 year waiting list for new owners u guys are always talking about in today bad economy???

mmmm.......everyone is experiencing a slow down right? Even rich folks are been carefull how they spend their money..

 

[realityman]

jonjuan, as someone who is actually IN the X program, I can assure you we are taking delivery of new X's. At exactly what rate, I'm not sure. But they're showing up.

Relax, we're doing fine.

 

[Hawker dude]

Soo what ever happaned with the 2 year waiting list for new owners u guys are always talking about in today bad economy???

mmmm.......everyone is experiencing a slow down right? Even rich folks are been carefull how they spend their money..

Yup

you are right

the rich chick with the fake tits I just flew to go shopping is really hurting.

 

[RNObased]

Soo what ever happaned with the 2 year waiting list for new owners u guys are always talking about in today bad economy???

mmmm.......everyone is experiencing a slow down right? Even rich folks are been carefull how they spend their money..

Listen to JonJuan isn't a great idea if you want facts. However he will freely despense his opionion, about the fractional world for free.

 

[captain dad]

Soo what ever happaned with the 2 year waiting list for new owners u guys are always talking about in today bad economy???

mmmm.......everyone is experiencing a slow down right? Even rich folks are been carefull how they spend their money..

We are hiring 350-450 this year and have for the last several. Those guys aren't flying imaginary A/C. We still are making sales and will have a net gain of 50 A/C in 2008. Not sure how many Xs. I will have to check the fleet plan.

 

[glasspilot]

Thread Title: Avantair selling majority of its Phenom slots

Thread Content: NetJets


How does this happen?

 

[SharkBait]

Thread Title: Avantair selling majority of its Phenom slots

Thread Content: NetJets


How does this happen?

Didn't you get the memo?? The only fractional is NJ. Didn't you see the size of their pilot wings?

BTW I'm glad we aren't getting the Phenoms, the P180 is a much better bird. Slightly more $$ but worth it.

 

[Guitar Guy]

BTW I'm glad we aren't getting the Phenoms, the P180 is a much better bird. Slightly more $$ but worth it.

What was the original idea with the Phenom for Avantair? Was their some performance or other gain with the Phenom or was it to offer perhaps a lower-cost alternative for potential owners?

 

[corpflunkie]

Thread Title: Avantair selling majority of its Phenom slots

Thread Content: NetJets


How does this happen?

NJA pilots are like peacocks, any excuse to flash their fancy feathers and get noticed

 

[GSXR600]

NJA pilots are like peacocks, any excuse to flash their fancy feathers and get noticed

BEERS ON ME!!!

 

[RNObased]

NJA pilots are like peacocks, any excuse to flash their fancy feathers and get noticed

Yeah, that is it smart guy. If you would go back and look at the moment this thread turned into a NJA conversation, it was done by someone that doens't work for the company.

But believe what you want to believe...

 

[imacdog]

NJA pilots are like peacocks, any excuse to flash their fancy feathers and get noticed

More accurately, correcting misinformation being spread in this thread but you are free to believe what you like.

 

[SharkBait]

Getting back on track again...

The Phenom has a significantly lower acquisition cost and I think that was mgmt's official draw towards it. I speculate that it might be some remnant of the Legacy order that fell apart a few years ago, but that's just me talking out the blowhole. At any rate, we certainly can use the money in better places and stick to the core model. There are some bills to be paid off yet.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

NJA pilots are like peacocks, any excuse to flash their fancy feathers and get noticed

Whatzchu talkin 'bout Willis?

Im so busy:

• Flying at FL510
• Lay'n over in Maui
• Crossin 30 West while eating Ribeye's
• Buying North Face Jackets in China
• Fetchin the famous in KSUN
• Hoppin in the hot tub with the hotties
• Drivin my 911
• Gettin my snack on and drink on
• Gettin my upgrade on Platinum Status on
• Ridin my Jetski's
• Para sailin down in St. Lucia
• Flossin and Flyin my G Whiz big bird

Brotha! I gots no time to be Braggin.... imp:

 

[727C47]

NJA pilots are like peacocks, any excuse to flash their fancy feathers and get noticed

Geez ,you guys are getting like all the major/legacy folks bashing good ol' SWA,on the all the Major threads. Fancy feathers ?

 

[Geronimo4497]

Geez ,you guys are getting like all the major/legacy folks bashing good ol' SWA,on the all the Major threads. Fancy feathers ?

I believe it was a joke. Laugh already. :nuts:

I for one am not sad to see those options going away. I never did understand how those airplanes fit the model besides adding more aircraft more quickly. With the financial environment that the whole industry is in, slowing growth is probably not a bad thing. Anyway, back to NJA and them thar fancy highfalutin feathers......

 

[Guitar Guy]

So, Geronimo, do you know what your management's interest was in the Phenom originally? I was curious about that.

 

[Geronimo4497]

So, Geronimo, do you know what your management's interest was in the Phenom originally? I was curious about that.

Not a clue. That decision was made long before I got on here and I seriously doubt the pilots would have been in the loop anyway (much like I suspect NJA line pilots don't know about orders until they are announced). As was alluded to earlier, it could have had something to do with the Legacy orders from a past time.

It would have been nice to have the growth but perhaps this will make room for a bigger airframe down the line (or more P.180s).

 

[mainiac]

So, Geronimo, do you know what your management's interest was in the Phenom originally? I was curious about that.

My guess (and I mean that literally) is that we were looking for an even less expensive option to lure in some new biz. The numbers for the Phenom (that I've heard owners batting around) were in the $200K initial/$5k-month range. (again, this is all hearsay)
But, at that rate, it reaches a whole new level of potential frac customer, that, once they've flown frac, won't go back!
Possible hope could have been to bring some new, less $$ folks onboard, then grow them to something larger down the road.
Lot's of our owners (some with shares elsewhere) have called us the Southwest of the fracs, due to our relative costs. Many use us instead of their X or Falcon for the shorter trips, and I suppose some of our own current owners might have done the same with another cheaper share. Hey, what's another 50 hrs or so?
Seems like a cool little jet, with Embraer reputation behind it, but I wouldn't have traded my Piaggio seat for it! Maybe the 300, though?

My .02

And, Happy 4th to everyone else in the hotel appreciation biz today....

 

[johnsonrod]

My guess (and I mean that literally) is that we were looking for an even less expensive option to lure in some new biz. The numbers for the Phenom (that I've heard owners batting around) were in the $200K initial/$5k-month range. (again, this is all hearsay)
But, at that rate, it reaches a whole new level of potential frac customer, that, once they've flown frac, won't go back!
Possible hope could have been to bring some new, less $$ folks onboard, then grow them to something larger down the road.
Lot's of our owners (some with shares elsewhere) have called us the Southwest of the fracs, due to our relative costs. Many use us instead of their X or Falcon for the shorter trips, and I suppose some of our own current owners might have done the same with another cheaper share. Hey, what's another 50 hrs or so?
Seems like a cool little jet, with Embraer reputation behind it, but I wouldn't have traded my Piaggio seat for it! Maybe the 300, though?

My .02

And, Happy 4th to everyone else in the hotel appreciation biz today....

Perhaps Avantair was trying to protect the "low-end" of the market given that the P180 was one of the cheaper options out there for a long time. Flight Options ordered Phenom 300s but they could have ordered 100s as well. Keep in mind that more people can afford cheaper airplanes than really expensive airplanes - it's a bigger market to tap and those customers could eventually have been funnelled into the P180... That's my theory.

It's true that Executive AirShares also operates C90s, B350s and Beechjets. It is my understanding that EAS wants to expand its regional model (currently Midwest) to other regions using the 35+ Phenom 100s it now has on order. So, EAS now offers the cheapest fractional airplanes.

Beyond EAS, another interesting option for price-sensitive West-Coast owners is Jetsuite:
http://www.jetsuite.com/index2.html

It will be interesting to see if Jetsuite actually comes to fruition - it has an interesting model. The founder is a Jet Blue founder. Time will tell...

 

[lowspeed]

Also the sales mark up would be nothing compared to the p180. Why waste resources going after that when you can make four times that with a piaggio. Also there is a few companies going after the same market with the 100. It is like fighting for table scraps when we alreay have a steak dinner on our table.

 

[johnsonrod]

Slight correction - I forgot to add Alpha Flying to the mix. I guess their PC12s would be the "cheapest" mainstream fractional option out there (at least East of the Mississippi).