Frontier will ground 7 planes and reduce by 17%

[radarlove]

Oh yeah, there's one more point: working for a BK company sucks. It sucks hard. Everything sucks, not just the uncertainty but the new consultants they bring in to fire people, the upper management's belief that if you just quit, it would be fine with them, the way the rest of the industry treats you...

It's like living in a bad neighborhood. It's easier just to move than to make it into a good neighborhood.

It doesn't get better, either. If and when Frontier exits BK, it's not like you're all going to get raises and a fruit plate.

The way BK works, if it's a successful reorganization, is that the bondholders turn their debt into shares of the new company, let's call it Frontier III. They take it public on the stock exchange and do their best to unload the shares.

So now you have owners, and a board of directors that wants nothing more than to rid their hands of you and is glancing toward the door the whole time.

It's the polar opposite of something like when JBLU went public, all the shareholders were ecstatic and investors bought new shares hand over fist.

There really is nothing to look forward to. Think about Eastern. TWA. Skybus. Gemini. I'm trying to think of a single (!) BK sucess story and honestly, I can't. USAir maybe? They're still breathing.

Pan Am. Nope. American International Airways. Nope. Zantop.

I could keep going, but I know this industy backward and forward and I can't think of a single shining start that went BK and came out in enviable shape.

 

[radarlove]

One last thing: your pilot's union is on the creditor's committee, they should give you the address of the creditor's website if there is one and should be keeping you apprised.

EDIT: oops, didn't see that the address got posted.

Go read the entire "first day orders" then the docket.

Almost nobody actually reads the stuff cover to cover, so you'll know more than anyone other than the consultants and upper management.

 

[stratus72]

One last thing: your pilot's union is on the creditor's committee, they should give you the address of the creditor's website if there is one and should be keeping you apprised.

EDIT: oops, didn't see that the address got posted.

Go read the entire "first day orders" then the docket.

Almost nobody actually reads the stuff cover to cover, so you'll know more than anyone other than the consultants and upper management.

Good suggestions. I've found some of the info but I'll keep looking. I agree, if we survive it wont be the same F9. I'd like to think it would be better than unemployment.

 

[Charlie Brown]

Oh yeah, there's one more point: working for a BK company sucks. It sucks hard. Everything sucks, not just the uncertainty but the new consultants they bring in to fire people, the upper management's belief that if you just quit, it would be fine with them, the way the rest of the industry treats you...

It's like living in a bad neighborhood. It's easier just to move than to make it into a good neighborhood.

It doesn't get better, either. If and when Frontier exits BK, it's not like you're all going to get raises and a fruit plate.

The way BK works, if it's a successful reorganization, is that the bondholders turn their debt into shares of the new company, let's call it Frontier III. They take it public on the stock exchange and do their best to unload the shares.

So now you have owners, and a board of directors that wants nothing more than to rid their hands of you and is glancing toward the door the whole time.

It's the polar opposite of something like when JBLU went public, all the shareholders were ecstatic and investors bought new shares hand over fist.

There really is nothing to look forward to. Think about Eastern. TWA. Skybus. Gemini. I'm trying to think of a single (!) BK sucess story and honestly, I can't. USAir maybe? They're still breathing.

Pan Am. Nope. American International Airways. Nope. Zantop.

I could keep going, but I know this industy backward and forward and I can't think of a single shining start that went BK and came out in enviable shape.

Continental had successful reorganization some years ago. Reference: Gordo Bethune's "From Worst to First" book.

 

[Charlie Brown]

Foolish to say we have no chance and SW is taking over Denver....not buying it.

Is it? Honest question. I think you may be suprised what SWA is capable of. Just study the company's history.

Best of luck to you guys/gals......

 

[WSurf]

Continental had successful reorganization some years ago. Reference: Gordo Bethune's "From Worst to First" book.

True, but not in a time when oil is a buck forty.

 

[puddlejumper101]

i think SWA in DEN has to do with UAL more so than F9. Let's face it when both the dominant carriers at DEN are F9 and UAL...well no wonder SWA management is doing what they are doing. UAL is shrinking fast...either way they see a win win...even if both carriers survive.

 

[stratus72]

i think SWA in DEN has to do with UAL more so than F9. Let's face it when both the dominant carriers at DEN are F9 and UAL...well no wonder SWA management is doing what they are doing. UAL is shrinking fast...either way they see a win win...even if both carriers survive.

yep..another reason I think we have a fighting chance.

 

[radarlove]

Continental had successful reorganization some years ago. Reference: Gordo Bethune's "From Worst to First" book.

Good one. Forgot about that one. That's one out of about thirty.

 

[Wesb737fo]

No offense was taken. I was just curious if people could shed light on the situation at hand. From the outside looking in i would think we're toast. However, based on the info we get from the company, union, etc... we have a fighting chance. Who knows?

Good luck to us all.

By no means am I wishing to put a damper on your chances of survival. I read that you have seen some numbers that indicate you have a good chance of making through this.

The only caution I would add is that you ask yourself if you believe in the business plan going forward. Who is giving you the information and do you really believe them.

I too, used to work at an airline that went head to head with SWA. In the end I hung around waiting for some grand plan (as we were told) to be enacted that would save us. Even after I left, I still never believed that their liquidation was a possibility. But there I was a few months ago staring a the news ticker reading about the demise of a great group of guys.

By waiting around, all I really did was waiste about of year hanging on when I should have been moving on. Unfortunately, now, there doesn't seem to be too many places to move on to.

I'm sorry if my pessimism adds to you anxiety. I'm not picking on F-9, I think we are all in deep sh!t right now. Maybe you guys will get bought out and see a fair integration somewhere. I really do hope that fuel prices drop and the economic conditions dictate that we all get to keep out jobs (with better contracts). I'll be in Vegas next week, should I bet on oil dropping?