United pulls out of FLL & PBI

[redflyer65]

Interesting...


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/sfl-0625airlines,0,6722642.story?track=rss

is this the beginning of the end? FLL is a pretty substantial market.

RF

 

[~~~^~~~]

But, if they backfill with Mesa, this would make some great crew accomidations:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/service.../sfl-flbbrothelbus0627sbjun26,0,2634594.story

 

[JumpJetter]

Southwest Airlines culls 31 flights, but adds 40

Interesting article to go along with this one.

link

AP
Southwest Airlines culls 31 flights, but adds 40
Thursday June 26, 11:58 am ET
Southwest Airlines drops 31 flights from schedule, but adds 40 more; big push in Denver
DALLAS (AP) -- Southwest Airlines Co. on Thursday outlined plans to shed 31 flights but add 40 others, including a big push into Denver.The addition of nine flights overall comes as many of Southwest's competitors scale back their flight offerings as they retrench in the face of record-high fuel prices and a slumping economy.
A number of markets will gain new nonstop Southwest service as a result of the change. The carrier will now offer three daily roundtrip flights between Denver and Orange County, Calif., for example, and two daily between Denver and Tulsa, Okla.
Denver is the home of Frontier Airlines and a major hub for UAL Corp., both of which have announced capacity cutbacks in recent weeks. Frontier filed for bankruptcy protection in April, and UAL recently announced plans to shutter its low-cost arm Ted, which was based in Denver.
Southwest also is beefing up its service in Ft. Lauderdale, Fla., including the addition of four new nonstop routes.
Southwest plans to expand its schedule by keeping in service two planes it had planned to retire. That brings to 15 the number of aircraft Southwest is adding this year.
"We have a much different story to tell today than our competitors," Chief Executive Gary Kelly said in a statement. "We are well prepared financially ... (and) we are still growing."
Southwest shares fell 20 cents, or 1.4 percent, to $13.88 in morning trading.

 

[BigMotorToter]

This didn't take long.
--------------------------------------------------


AP
Southwest Airlines culls 31 flights, but adds 40
Thursday June 26, 11:58 am ET

Southwest Airlines drops 31 flights from schedule, but adds 40 more; big push in Denver

DALLAS (AP) -- Southwest Airlines Co. on Thursday outlined plans to shed 31 flights but add 40 others, including a big push into Denver.
The addition of nine flights overall comes as many of Southwest's competitors scale back their flight offerings as they retrench in the face of record-high fuel prices and a slumping economy.

A number of markets will gain new nonstop Southwest service as a result of the change. The carrier will now offer three daily roundtrip flights between Denver and Orange County, Calif., for example, and two daily between Denver and Tulsa, Okla.
Denver is the home of Frontier Airlines and a major hub for UAL Corp., both of which have announced capacity cutbacks in recent weeks. Frontier filed for bankruptcy protection in April, and UAL recently announced plans to shutter its low-cost arm Ted, which was based in Denver.

Southwest also is beefing up its service in Ft. Lauderdale, Fla., including the addition of four new nonstop routes.

Southwest plans to expand its schedule by keeping in service two planes it had planned to retire. That brings to 15 the number of aircraft Southwest is adding this year.
"We have a much different story to tell today than our competitors," Chief Executive Gary Kelly said in a statement. "We are well prepared financially ... (and) we are still growing."
Southwest shares fell 20 cents, or 1.4 percent, to $13.88 in morning trading.

 

[airlinepilot]

Kelly wasn't kidding when he said SWA would fill-in the gaps left by downsizing. I guess maybe that is why the school house is prepared to train 500+ newhires

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Does UAL still have a crew base in MIA?

 

[MCDU]

no, not any more

 

[redflyer65]

The article doesn't even say they plan on feeding it with United Express. Am I missing something?

They are going to dump a big cruise port city and still fly to Quad City and Des Moines?

 

[ultrarunner]

The article doesn't even say they plan on feeding it with United Express. Am I missing something?....

When you're hemoraging, you just hope to be get off the operating table....

You could give a $hit about what's making or loosing money..

Ya know what I mean?

I'd bet money UAL will cave. It's worth WAY more in pieces than as a whole...

I mean, c'mon. UAL has a market cap of 800 mil! That's chump change. It'll bring WAY more than that at liquidation. There are likely a few birds that are worth something, and some hubs. They likey have a few routes and gates that would bring in some heavy bidding.

I bet you liquidate UAL and easily get twice its market cap, if not more.

Not to mention what it would do for fares having tens of thousands less seats, daily, off the market.

Sorry to say this, but the US government wanted deregulation and competition, now you got it!

 

[contrail67]

CAL pulled out of Oakland last week too....so what. Service is being dropped everywhere...by almost every carrier.

 

[redflyer65]

I hate to say it, but OAK is not close to FLL. Just my opinion....

 

[IADBLRJ41]

It also looks like UAL is dumping the DEN-LHR service.

Sucks

 

[ultrarunner]

It does not suck. If you have to bail, you bail. All this is a great example of what happens when you decide stay in market you can't make money in.

 

[Cobra17]

The article doesn't even say they plan on feeding it with United Express. Am I missing something?

They are going to dump a big cruise port city and still fly to Quad City and Des Moines?

What's wrong with Quad City and Des Moines?

Good people.

Heartland.

Children of the Corn and stuff....

 

[ultrarunner]

Hey, I don't care what you call the cities...Quad, Des Moines, etc...

It's all about yield....


FLL is a LEISURE market. Business does not go on there. That's why the fares are $hit, and yield is $hit.

If Quad City and Des Moines has the yield, bring 'em on.

It's all about yield...who gives a $hit about the name of the town!

Billy Bob and Bobby Sue want to pay 30 bucks RT to go to FLL....maybe it's just me, but I'm thinking only a few carries can afford to carry Billy Bob and Bobby Sue and those fares...

As Imus would say..."There you go. Now we know."

 

[D-Bo]

It also looks like UAL is dumping the DEN-LHR service.

Sucks

Don't know what it is but I'm not defending my ********************ty airline but to correct a few of you.

1) DEN-LHR is seasonal. We hoped we would do it year round. They wanted to go from a 777 to a 767 in the winter but it wouldn't be able to carry max weight. So in their dumb wisdom just to make it seasonal since they already committed the triple to something else.

2) We need FLL instead of letting Airways take our pax down there but it was far from "substantial".

3) Beginning of the end????? If you see UAL giving up all of it's rights in Asia that would be a great signal. Jeez, if we over here were as bearish as you all we'd be throwing the kitchen sink in our contract to save it. Luckily most of us see through this BS and if it caves, it caves, but we now have a tendency to not believe our management when they try to say the sky is falling. If anything they need to give us a pay raise right Fn now. Oh, and don't believe the furlough numbers either. If they were truly planning on grounding 100 planes and 950 pilots, they may as well ground 400+ planes and furlough 7000+ pilots. That would be the result of their actions anyway.

 

[redflyer65]

Good replies everyone.

There's nothing wrong with Quad Cities/Des Moines, just trying to prove a point.

I wish all the United employees all the best.

 

[FatesPawn]

If they were truly planning on grounding 100 planes and 950 pilots, they may as well ground 400+ planes and furlough 7000+ pilots. That would be the result of their actions anyway.

D-Bo,

Believe me, I'm not trying to piss in your Wheaties, but as a former furloughee, I can ASSURE you that nobody believed they would shrink 30% and park the entire 727/737-200 fleet in one day on Oct 31, 2001 either. Everyone was looking for the silver lining then, too. Parking 100 airplanes is on page 359 of their playbook.

My 20/20 hindsight tells me to never underestimate stupid draconian decisions made by management.

I'm not trying to be negative - just a realist. I learned in 2001 to plan for the worst and hope for the best. I hope everyone left at UAL is doing the same today.


-fate

 

[NuGuy]

Hey, I don't care what you call the cities...Quad, Des Moines, etc...

It's all about yield....


FLL is a LEISURE market. Business does not go on there. That's why the fares are $hit, and yield is $hit.

If Quad City and Des Moines has the yield, bring 'em on.

It's all about yield...who gives a $hit about the name of the town!

Billy Bob and Bobby Sue want to pay 30 bucks RT to go to FLL....maybe it's just me, but I'm thinking only a few carries can afford to carry Billy Bob and Bobby Sue and those fares...

As Imus would say..."There you go. Now we know."

This is something NWA has known for decades.

Sure, MOT, FSD, RAP, GRR, FNT and FAR suck in the wintertime, but that's where the cash is.

"Sure, they're cold and dark, but they're all OURS"


Nu

 

[Turtlesfly]

My extended family is from the Quad Cities - and I have gone there extensively.

Let's get it straight, first of all: United doesn't fly there. It's the GoJet mother********************ers.

 

[Skybus]

Actually I do NOT have the data however my observations of FLL is HEAVY business travel.

 

[NuGuy]

Actually I do NOT have the data however my observations of FLL is HEAVY business travel.

Sorry...wrong. I live in and commute out of FLL.

Definately the backpack, sleep-on-the-terminal floor crowd.

Nu

 

[Marko Ramius]

D-Bo,

Believe me, I'm not trying to piss in your Wheaties, but as a former furloughee, I can ASSURE you that nobody believed they would shrink 30% and park the entire 727/737-200 fleet in one day on Oct 31, 2001 either. Everyone was looking for the silver lining then, too. Parking 100 airplanes is on page 359 of their playbook.

My 20/20 hindsight tells me to never underestimate stupid draconian decisions made by management.

I'm not trying to be negative - just a realist. I learned in 2001 to plan for the worst and hope for the best. I hope everyone left at UAL is doing the same today.


-fate

I agree on not underestimating management's heavy hand, you must have been in lala land if you didn't think the 727's and the 737-291's weren't going away and quickly. They said as far back as 1998 that planes like the 727, 737-200, DC-10 and 747-200 were fine with a good economy(.com) and cheap fuel but that they were goners if any of those variable turned south.

In fact the original A319 order was made to replace the 737-291 and beat out a lowball offer for 737-700's from Boeing. The economy was so good though, they elected to bring them in as extra capacity instead. Prior to 9/11, the company had already gotten rid of the DC-10 and the 747-238B's and announced that the 727's and 737-291's were toast to be replaced by the Airbus order that is still on the books 7 years later. The company said that they weren't going to furlough and that they were going to let attrition and the 3man to 2man conversions shrink their operations through the economic downturn. When 9/11 hit, of course all bets were off and stuff changed but it only accelerated the 727 and 737-291 retirements by about 6mos-1 year, so how can you say it was surprising?

 

[Marko Ramius]

The article doesn't even say they plan on feeding it with United Express. Am I missing something?

Why bother? If this stuff keeps up, the regional industry is a couple of bold moves from AMR and/or Mesa from being turned on it's head. What happens if the same MBA's and people who raked lessors over the coals for lease rate reductions in major airline bk's get the chance to do the same to the lease rates on RJ's at Eagle, Mesa and maybe Pinnacle? That would/will be a boom goes the dynamite moment.

 

[contrail67]

Actually I do NOT have the data however my observations of FLL is HEAVY business travel.

For the most part..current TED cities are not HEAVY business travelers...