Airtran pilot staffing

[27 driver]

I hear ya bro. I have a wife and new daughter at home that both count on my paycheck. I will go deep into debt with another furlough. Must tap 401K. This is going to suck.

 

[scarlet]

well the 4 year guy=is really a 3 year guy. A 4 year guy could have upgraded already.

If you can not live on 70 hours, you can hardly live on 80 hours=you need to make a change. 400.00 is not alot of money, if you lose an appliance or car breaks down.

Everyone has problems !!!

 

[TV9Driver]

Zman,

You obviously didn't read my entire post. I am not out buying big houses or new cars. I've been furloughed for 6 years and haven't been able to come close to replacing the income. I've had to burn through my entire savings to keep the house and used cars I have.

Again, i'm not looking for sympathy - that is not what my post was all about. Compared to some of my brothern, i've been very lucky. We've had suicides, divorces, bankruptcies, stressed induced medical and drug problems, etc. I'm very blessed to have a wonderful wife and 2 great kids who have been extremely supportive.

MY F***ING POINT WAS THAT WE AT AAI DON'T MAKE ENOUGH TO TAKE PAY CUTS

If we need to drop to 70hrs a month to keep my AirTran brothers off the street, you are darn right i'll be doing everything I can do to help - including not picking up open time etc. ALL I WANT IS TO SEE THE COMPANY BUILD EFFICIENT 70HR LINES SO THAT I CAN GET A SECOND JOB ON MY DAYS OFF!!

15 hours x $66/hr x12 months is approximately $12,000.00 pay cut.

How many of YOU can afford a $12,000 pay cut right now? I'm sorry, but I can't and therefore will need a second job.

 

[carl p]

Zman,

You obviously didn't read my entire post. I am not out buying big houses or new cars. I've been furloughed for 6 years and haven't been able to come close to replacing the income. I've had to burn through my entire savings to keep the house and used cars I have.

Again, i'm not looking for sympathy - that is not what my post was all about. Compared to some of my brothern, i've been very lucky. We've had suicides, divorces, bankruptcies, stressed induced medical and drug problems, etc. I'm very blessed to have a wonderful wife and 2 great kids who have been extremely supportive.

MY F***ING POINT WAS THAT WE AT AAI DON'T MAKE ENOUGH TO TAKE PAY CUTS

If we need to drop to 70hrs a month to keep my AirTran brothers off the street, you are darn right i'll be doing everything I can do to help - including not picking up open time etc. ALL I WANT IS TO SEE THE COMPANY BUILD EFFICIENT 70HR LINES SO THAT I CAN GET A SECOND JOB ON MY DAYS OFF!!

15 hours x $66/hr x12 months is approximately $12,000.00 pay cut.

How many of YOU can afford a $12,000 pay cut right now? I'm sorry, but I can't and therefore will need a second job.

I got your point the first time brother, crystal clear!

 

[Kenney G]

Three years without a new contract you already gave the company at least 12% in cola.

 

[bravodude]

Zman,

You obviously didn't read my entire post. I am not out buying big houses or new cars. I've been furloughed for 6 years and haven't been able to come close to replacing the income. I've had to burn through my entire savings to keep the house and used cars I have.

Again, i'm not looking for sympathy - that is not what my post was all about. Compared to some of my brothern, i've been very lucky. We've had suicides, divorces, bankruptcies, stressed induced medical and drug problems, etc. I'm very blessed to have a wonderful wife and 2 great kids who have been extremely supportive.

MY F***ING POINT WAS THAT WE AT AAI DON'T MAKE ENOUGH TO TAKE PAY CUTS

If we need to drop to 70hrs a month to keep my AirTran brothers off the street, you are darn right i'll be doing everything I can do to help - including not picking up open time etc. ALL I WANT IS TO SEE THE COMPANY BUILD EFFICIENT 70HR LINES SO THAT I CAN GET A SECOND JOB ON MY DAYS OFF!!

15 hours x $66/hr x12 months is approximately $12,000.00 pay cut.

How many of YOU can afford a $12,000 pay cut right now? I'm sorry, but I can't and therefore will need a second job.

Dude just go ahead and apply at SWA. Just think about it you wont have to put up with Lear 70 and pcl 128.

 

[jester757]

Zman,

You obviously didn't read my entire post. I am not out buying big houses or new cars. I've been furloughed for 6 years and haven't been able to come close to replacing the income. I've had to burn through my entire savings to keep the house and used cars I have.

Again, i'm not looking for sympathy - that is not what my post was all about. Compared to some of my brothern, i've been very lucky. We've had suicides, divorces, bankruptcies, stressed induced medical and drug problems, etc. I'm very blessed to have a wonderful wife and 2 great kids who have been extremely supportive.

MY F***ING POINT WAS THAT WE AT AAI DON'T MAKE ENOUGH TO TAKE PAY CUTS

If we need to drop to 70hrs a month to keep my AirTran brothers off the street, you are darn right i'll be doing everything I can do to help - including not picking up open time etc. ALL I WANT IS TO SEE THE COMPANY BUILD EFFICIENT 70HR LINES SO THAT I CAN GET A SECOND JOB ON MY DAYS OFF!!

15 hours x $66/hr x12 months is approximately $12,000.00 pay cut.

How many of YOU can afford a $12,000 pay cut right now? I'm sorry, but I can't and therefore will need a second job.

Your problem (not a problem in my eyes) is that you have previously flown for a major airline and seen how things have been. You have as they say "the big picture" and apparently this does not sit well with your co-workers. I am with you - it costs money to move airplanes...those who are willing to do it for "free" kill the industry as a whole.

 

[Ty Webb]

Then maybe you should'nt be living above your means buddy. If you cant live off a 70 hr gurantee at 66 in hour something is wrong with you, not the company.

Are you kidding me? This is the kind of crap I used to hear from scabs as a newhire FO. This is an airline, not a shelter for battered pilots. Have some self-respect, and some respect for your fellow pilot.

 

[maxblast72]

At Airtran, there could be four categories of income changes by reduction in force or reduction in average line value:

1) Furloughed 1st yr FO (loss of approx $45,000/yr)
2) FO cut to 70 hrs avg pay/month (loss of approx $12,000 yr)
3) Downgraded CA (loss of approx $45,000 yr)
4) CA cut to 70 hrs to avg pay/month (loss of approx $24,000 yr)

Out of these 4 categories, I would say #1 would be the most painful down to #4 which be painful but at a much lower level than #1. I think dropping the average lines down to 70 to prevent as many #1's and #3's as possible would be the proper thing to do to help keep as much unity as possible in our pilot group. The next senior guy I hear saying I have been furoughed before, now it is the junior guys turn to be furloughed needs a blanket party.

PS. TV9Driver, I admire you work ethic to want the 18 days off with the 70 hrs lines to get a second job to support your family instead of expecting someone or government to take care of you.

 

[Lear70]

Dude just go ahead and apply at SWA. Just think about it you wont have to put up with Lear 70 and pcl 128.

That's kind of funny... several of us were talking the other day about having to work with YOU at Southwest, including two of your coworkers who are 3rd and 4th year F/O's over there.

All of your coworkers are repeatedly apologizing for your antics; maybe that should be a hint for you? Just a thought.

I understand what ZMan is saying completely. 70 hours * $66 an hour = $4,620 per month BEFORE taxes. Then you take out health insurance at around $300 a month, any 401(k) deductions, etc, then taxes and union dues. That means you're lucky to bring home $3,000 a month post-tax.

Whoever thinks that works to support a family of 4 (a wife, two kids, a moderate 3 bedroom $180k house in the suburbs, one car payment (the other an older paid-off car), plus utilities, student loan, car, home, and life insurance, food, gas, cell phone, etc...? Not even mentioning saving money for Birthdays, Christmas, Anniversaries, Vacation...

You're dreaming.

Even if you have a working spouse, child care costs while working are insane and, unless the spouse is making the same or more than you, it's often barely enough to cover the child care expenses, extra gas, food, etc.

The problem with working on the side at AirTran is that you have to either obtain the permission of the Chief Pilot or V.P. of Flight Ops to FLY somewhere else, or get a non-flying side job (FOM restriction).

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Gotta agree with TV9 here. If we are going to 70 hours then I'll be looking to fly that in no more than 12 days leaving the 18-19 others to generate income elsewhere.

As for ANY kind of pay cut or work rule relief---NO WAY!!!!

 

[Colonel Savage]

...The problem with working on the side at AirTran is that you have to either obtain the permission of the Chief Pilot or V.P. of Flight Ops to FLY somewhere else, or get a non-flying side job (FOM restriction).

Why in the world would a guy have to get permission to get a non-flying job, especially with a reduced line?

That's Orwellian (sp?)

 

[labatt]

Why in the world would a guy have to get permission to get a non-flying job, especially with a reduced line?

That's Orwellian (sp?)

Just flying for hire or compensation jobs.

 

[airline#5]

...The next senior guy I hear saying I have been furoughed before, now it is the junior guys turn to be furloughed needs a blanket party.

How 'bout a FO that's been furloughed 3 times, can I say that or will I get a blanket part too, Captain? You sound familiar, maybe one of my FO's somewhere.

 

[labatt]

How 'bout a FO that's been furloughed 3 times, can I say that or will I get a blanket part too, Captain? You sound familiar, maybe one of my FO's somewhere.

Anyone that says it. Blanket party. Time to hunker down and stick together.

 

[Lear70]

Why in the world would a guy have to get permission to get a non-flying job, especially with a reduced line?

That's Orwellian (sp?)

It was the way I worded it, sorry for the confusion:

"...The problem with working on the side at AirTran is that you have to either obtain the permission of the Chief Pilot or V.P. of Flight Ops to FLY somewhere else,

or

you can get a non-flying side job.

 

[jonjuan]

And quit pumping out the kids while on furlough. It's part of "living within ones means."

 

[27 driver]

And quit pumping out the kids while on furlough. It's part of "living within ones means."

First of all skippy, If your wife is pregnant before you know of a furlough there is not a lot you can do about it. Secondly, lets see how you tune changes when you are on the street. These are unprecedented times in our economy and people are hurting out there. You should really have some sympathy for your fellow pilots.

 

[maxblast72]

Anyone that says it. Blanket party. Time to hunker down and stick together.

Right on the money. All 1700 of us need to stick together instead of some of the senior guys here saying oh well. Airtran pilots have typically been some of the hardest working pilots in the industry and may be used to working 85-95 hours a month, but one must look at the bigger picture in the times we are in now.

Avg line value needs to go to 70 before we ever let someone go. I can't look anybody in the eye and say sorry my lifestyle requires 90 hours a month so we will see you in a year and a half or two years. We all need to share in the rewards when the company does well, and we all need to share in the pain when the company is struggling.

 

[27 driver]

Right on the money. All 1700 of us need to stick together instead of some of the senior guys here saying oh well. Airtran pilots have typically been some of the hardest working pilots in the industry and may be used to working 85-95 hours a month, but one must look at the bigger picture in the times we are in now.

Avg line value needs to go to 70 before we ever let someone go. I can't look anybody in the eyes and say sorry my lifestyle requires 90 hours a month so we will see you in a year and a half or two years. We all need to share in the rewards when the company does well, and we all need to share in the pain when the company is struggling.

Well said maxblast. A lot of people will be affected by a furlough. Many will go back to the right seat, back on reserve, and for me back on unemployment. This affects many more than just the few on the chopping block.