Before going to Compass,,,,think again

[GearDwn]

Before taking a job offer from Compass, think again.

NWA (NWA/Delta) starts the furlough after they park all the gas-hog DC9's (remember United is parking 100, AA is reducing 10-12%; so this is very real). ALL Delta and NWA pilots will flo-back to Compass putting you on the street IMMEDIATELY (ok, 20/month).

oh, and the top 75 or so guys that took the job as off the street captains? you aren't safe either. The flo-backs will go ahead of you and you will be sitting FO reserve in MEM with a $40k pay cut. Can't afford it? Well, if you quit you won't get unemployment.

No, you don't get to keep your captain pay.

Thought it was a great time to go to Compass 1 year ago, huh? Maybe not.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Who pi$$ed in your Cheerios?

 

[Butters]

Thought it was a great time to go to Compass 1 year ago, huh? Maybe not.

Why are you hating on Compass?

You think the pilots that went there last year didn't know the risks? Does rubbing that in make you a better person?

The whole industry sucks. Thanks for reminding the rest of us who didn't seem to notice.

 

[MJ42]

Before taking a job offer from Compass, think again.

NWA (NWA/Delta) starts the furlough after they park all the gas-hog DC9's (remember United is parking 100, AA is reducing 10-12%; so this is very real). ALL Delta and NWA pilots will flo-back to Compass putting you on the street IMMEDIATELY (ok, 20/month).

oh, and the top 75 or so guys that took the job as off the street captains? you aren't safe either. The flo-backs will go ahead of you and you will be sitting FO reserve in MEM with a $40k pay cut. Can't afford it? Well, if you quit you won't get unemployment.

No, you don't get to keep your captain pay.

Thought it was a great time to go to Compass 1 year ago, huh? Maybe not.

AA and United are not good comparisons. Northwest and Delta had their restructuring during BK. United came out of BK as screwed up as ever. AA has had a lot of issues lately and did not have the (sell out) advantage that BK gave to NWA and DAL. I'm not saying the 9's won't get parked quicker then planed, but NWA was down to minimal staffing after BK. This should help as far as if there are ever plans to furlough.

I know NWA staffing levels are appropriate for the year end planned reduction of the 9's. NWA has alway staffed aircraft at a minimal level. If we use DAL staffing model, furloughs will not be necessary.

Where do you get your theory from? Seems like a guess to me.

We may or may not park the 9's at a faster pace. DAL management seems to think they serve a purpose for the next several years, however, that could change tomorrow. But, YOU HAVE NO CLUE if that will happen or not! Please explain how you came to your conclusion. Was it based on your intellect or actual credible information? BTW, if it was based on your intellect (and not facts) then you're pretty dumb!

 

[DoinTime]

We may or may not park the 9's at a faster pace. DAL management seems to think they serve a purpose for the next several years, however, that could change tomorrow. But, YOU HAVE NO CLUE if that will happen or not! Please explain how you came to your conclusion. Was it based on your intellect or actual credible information? BTW, if it was based on your intellect (and not facts) then you're pretty dumb!

I hope this isn't another example of how you scream and yell that someone else's speculation is not supported by current facts but in a couple months it turns out to be true. I hope this for everyones sake.

 

[General Lee]

Wait a second, the NWA guys on the Majors forum say that according to their own current scope clause, if they park the DC9s, they have to park Compass planes. They are somehow tied together. That is the reason they have so far not parked ALL of the DC9s. We are now working on a "Joint Contract" (even before the Seniority list integration is completed) and I would think (and hope) that Dalpa and NWALPA would try to keep that scope clause. Management does want this joint contract complete prior to the conclusion of the deal at the end of the year, so that does take a bit of pressure off of us. If they want to keep Compass flying, they will keep the DC9s or add a replacement.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DoinTime]

Wait a second, the NWA guys on the Majors forum say that according to their own current scope clause, if they park the DC9s, they have to park Compass planes. They are somehow tied together. That is the reason they have so far not parked ALL of the DC9s.

That is urban myth. Compass is not a required element to NWAs fleet plan.

 

[General Lee]

That is urban myth. Compass is not a required element to NWAs fleet plan.

Really? This is what DTW320 says on the Major's forum:

Quote:
Do you think our pilots should get furloughed for planes brought to the table by you guys?
When the airplanes are parked BECAUSE OF DAL's SCOPE CLAUSE? YES. YOU BETCHA.

Quote:
Honestly, do you think our guys should be furloughed because of your planes possibly going away?
YES. If they are allowed to park them with NO PENALTY due to DALPA's scope language. Honestly, do you think NWA guys should be furloughed because your scope clause allows them to be parked vs NWA scope clause that penalizes NWA tremendously for parking them beyond a certain point?

You guys ALWAYS ignore this point"



So, what is the truth????? How does parking the DC9s penalize NWA?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[dwhsunday]

Wow gear down. Say hi to your wife for me when you get home.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Imagine that...another failed ALPA experiment....MidAtlantic/Compass/flowthough agreements....More smoke and mirrors....and we keep falling for them.....

When ALPA draws dividing lines.....managment exploits them.....A real union wouldn't draw dividing lines....A real union would unify it's members.....

Sadly ALPA isn't a real union and we keep falling for it's 3 card Monty.....

 

[DoinTime]

Really? This is what DTW320 says on the Major's forum:

Quote:
Do you think our pilots should get furloughed for planes brought to the table by you guys?
When the airplanes are parked BECAUSE OF DAL's SCOPE CLAUSE? YES. YOU BETCHA.

Quote:
Honestly, do you think our guys should be furloughed because of your planes possibly going away?
YES. If they are allowed to park them with NO PENALTY due to DALPA's scope language. Honestly, do you think NWA guys should be furloughed because your scope clause allows them to be parked vs NWA scope clause that penalizes NWA tremendously for parking them beyond a certain point?

You guys ALWAYS ignore this point"



So, what is the truth????? How does parking the DC9s penalize NWA?


Bye Bye--General Lee

That quote was pretty incoherent when left out of context but the only effect the NW mainline fleet has on the "large RJ" fleet at the Airlinks is that after one year out of bankruptcy a "floor" is established on the narrow body fleet at NW. If the floor is exceeded more large RJs can be put into service. If the fleet drops below the floor there is no penalty.

There are provisions that make it difficult to sell Compass as an airline to be operated as an airline. If NW were to divest of Compass though I doubt you would see it survive as an airline though.

There are no restrictions that prevent a shutdown of Compass besides a reshuffling of what paint jobs come on the NW 76-seat orders.

 

[Windsor]

Couldnt Compass's planes be the replacement for the -9's? The Emb's are 100 seat planes. They could be a direct replacement for the baby -9's that seat 100.

Granted I dont have all the details about the flow back agreement, but it seems to me that the replacement planes are already on property. The Emb's should be flown by mainline pilots for mainline pay.

PS, I do get a kick out of seeing the NW guys with the "Dont blame me, I voted NO" stickers on their bags.

 

[JoeMerchant]

That quote was pretty incoherent when left out of context but the only effect the NW mainline fleet has on the "large RJ" fleet at the Airlinks is that after one year out of bankruptcy a "floor" is established on the narrow body fleet at NW. If the floor is exceeded more large RJs can be put into service. If the fleet drops below the floor there is no penalty.

There are provisions that make it difficult to sell Compass as an airline to be operated as an airline. If NW were to divest of Compass though I doubt you would see it survive as an airline though.

There are no restrictions that prevent a shutdown of Compass besides a reshuffling of what paint jobs come on the NW 76-seat orders.

You mean ALPA helped create an alter-ego B scale airline that isn't really viable on it's own? Say it ain't so.......

I'm amazed that so many people still have faith in ALPA after more of these failures keep coming to light......

 

[DoinTime]

The Emb's should be flown by mainline pilots for mainline pay.

Have you seen the NW mainline pay scale for the E-175?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Have you seen the NW mainline pay scale for the E-175?

EXACTLY....All this talk of "the mainline should fly them".....That would be a paycut as the mainline whore themselves to steal these planes.....Union my A$$.....

 

[General Lee]

Couldnt Compass's planes be the replacement for the -9's? The Emb's are 100 seat planes. They could be a direct replacement for the baby -9's that seat 100.

Granted I dont have all the details about the flow back agreement, but it seems to me that the replacement planes are already on property. The Emb's should be flown by mainline pilots for mainline pay.

PS, I do get a kick out of seeing the NW guys with the "Dont blame me, I voted NO" stickers on their bags.

They are not 100 seaters. The E190 is the 100 seater, not the E175. And, there is a 76 seat limit. Most of the DC9-30s will be gone soon, leaving DC9-40/50 series, and I think the DC95s have 124 seats. That is almost a 50 seat difference.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Windsor]

Have you seen the NW mainline pay scale for the E-175?

No, have you? It'd be nice to see a 20% override of what Compass is paying if this were to ever happen.
The 20% pay hike would still be a large cost savings compared to the overall operating costs between the 2 aircraft.

 

[Windsor]

They are not 100 seaters. The E190 is the 100 seater, not the E175. And, there is a 76 seat limit. Most of the DC9-30s will be gone soon, leaving DC9-40/50 series, and I think the DC95s have 124 seats. That is almost a 50 seat difference.

Bye Bye--General Lee

The Emb's are 100 seat planes. If they take the first class section out, its a 100 seat plane. Due to the scope clause, they are configured for 76. Same thing goes for the 900's mesaba is flying. 100 seat planes configured for 76.

 

[MJ42]

I hope this isn't another example of how you scream and yell that someone else's speculation is not supported by current facts but in a couple months it turns out to be true. I hope this for everyones sake.

Examples??? Someone else's SPECULATION? You mean someone who GUESSES and predicts something that may or may not come true?

Do you think you're such an intelligent person if you predict the 9's will be parked? Let me fill you in...they will be parked, but neither you nor I know how fast. Apparently DAL management has plans for the 9's. Only time will tell, keep your drivel and bitterness to yourself!

If you're so smart and can speculate what is going to happen then why don't you use your (lack of) intelligence to save the industry?

 

[DoinTime]

Examples??? Someone else's SPECULATION? You mean someone who GUESSES and predicts something that may or may not come true?

Do you think you're such an intelligent person if you predict the 9's will be parked? Let me fill you in...they will be parked, but neither you nor I know how fast. Apparently DAL management has plans for the 9's. Only time will tell, keep your drivel and bitterness to yourself!

If you're so smart and can speculate what is going to happen then why don't you use your (lack of) intelligence to save the industry?

I'm sorry....the sting from your last smack down must not have faded yet. I wont hold you to your comments.

....and me? bitter? you embody the term. Now get your a** back on reserve!

 

[Superpilot92]

That quote was pretty incoherent when left out of context but the only effect the NW mainline fleet has on the "large RJ" fleet at the Airlinks is that after one year out of bankruptcy a "floor" is established on the narrow body fleet at NW. If the floor is exceeded more large RJs can be put into service. If the fleet drops below the floor there is no penalty.

There are provisions that make it difficult to sell Compass as an airline to be operated as an airline. If NW were to divest of Compass though I doubt you would see it survive as an airline though.

There are no restrictions that prevent a shutdown of Compass besides a reshuffling of what paint jobs come on the NW 76-seat orders.

thats not accurate, the floor serves 2 purposes 1 being it cant drop below that without parking 70 seaters first and 2. it is a floor for it the NWA fleet ever goes up with a NET increase, not replacements, then another "large RJ" can be ordered. the compass deal while not a smart move at NWA by the pilots did include protections to ensure ALL dc9s wouldnt get parked and directly replaced by compass. How come only 18 more unaccounted orders can be filled if your theory is correct? I know, because of the scope provisions limiting the number of 70 seaters.

 

[DoinTime]

The Emb's are 100 seat planes. If they take the first class section out, its a 100 seat plane. Due to the scope clause, they are configured for 76. Same thing goes for the 900's mesaba is flying. 100 seat planes configured for 76.

The EMB-175 is not a 100 seat plane. Neither is the CRJ-900.

 

[DoinTime]

thats not accurate, the floor serves 2 purposes 1 being it cant drop below that without parking 70 seaters first and 2. it is a floor for it the NWA fleet ever goes up with a NET increase, not replacements, then another "large RJ" can be ordered. the compass deal while not a smart move at NWA by the pilots did include protections to ensure ALL dc9s wouldnt get parked and directly replaced by compass. How come only 18 more unaccounted orders can be filled if your theory is correct? I know, because of the scope provisions limiting the number of 70 seaters.

After reading some more there are some penalties for going below the floor [my bad]. There is a 1 for 1 "peel back" penalty for for new 77-110 seat aircraft taken out of service at NWA but seeing is that none were ever put into service this is not applicable. The second element is that the lower cap cannot be exceeded if the floor is not maintained.

The current orders are for 62 76-seat RJs (36 CRJ-900s at XJ and 36 E-175s at Compass). The lower cap is for 55 of these planes and the upper cap is 90 planes. If the NB floor is not maintained (and it looks like wont be) 7 of the current 76-seaters will not be deliverable unless they come in Delta Connection colors. Being below the floor also negates any benefit for NWA operating Compass as they can't be used to boost the total number of large RJs.

 

[Superpilot92]

After reading some more there are some penalties for going below the floor [my bad]. There is a 1 for 1 "peel back" penalty for for new 77-110 seat aircraft taken out of service at NWA but seeing is that none were ever put into service this is not applicable. The second element is that the lower cap cannot be exceeded if the floor is not maintained.

The current orders are for 62 76-seat RJs (36 CRJ-900s at XJ and 36 E-175s at Compass). The lower cap is for 55 of these planes and the upper cap is 90 planes. If the NB floor is not maintained (and it looks like wont be) 7 of the current 76-seaters will not be deliverable unless they come in Delta Connection colors. Being below the floor also negates any benefit for NWA operating Compass as they can't be used to boost the total number of large RJs.

Like i said the whole mess should have never been allowed to happen but it did and there were at least protections included to protect mainline jobs and flying that was my point. All the 9's CANT be parked and replaced by "RJ"s per the NWA scope language. What document are you getting your info from?

The funniest thing is GL took your original post on this subject as "fact" and already posted it against some NWA guys on a different thread. LMAO you really got him bent out of shape.

 

[JoeMerchant]

SuperPilot,

Your signature says "one airline one contract".....can you explain the reason for that and the method you want.....

 

[DoinTime]

Like i said the whole mess should have never been allowed to happen but it did and there were at least protections included to protect mainline jobs and flying that was my point. All the 9's CANT be parked and replaced by "RJ"s per the NWA scope language. What document are you getting your info from?

The funniest thing is GL took your original post on this subject as "fact" and already posted it against some NWA guys on a different thread. LMAO you really got him bent out of shape.

Not all of the -9s can be replaced by 76-seaters. Just 55 of them.

I get my info from the NW Contract. You know, its that 2 inch thick document that most NW pilots have never peeled the shrink wrap off of.

The General should know better than to ever repeat anything he read off of flight info.

 

[Superpilot92]

SuperPilot,

Your signature says "one airline one contract".....can you explain the reason for that and the method you want.....

Its self explanatory. Arguing about it online is pointless and arguing about it with someone who isnt a pilot at NWA or DAL is even more pointless. This topic has been discussed on so many ridiculous threads its not funny so i wont get into it again, especially since thats not what this thread is about.

 

[Superpilot92]

Not all of the -9s can be replaced by 76-seaters. Just 55 of them. comment below

I get my info from the NW Contract. You know, its that 2 inch thick document that most NW pilots have never peeled the shrink wrap off of. I know what it is I have it sitting at the house. I was just curious where you were getting your info from.

The General should know better than to ever repeat anything he read off of flight info come on your giving the General way to much credit.

Thats exactly why NWA announced the cuts they did when they did because they needed to announce it before the floor was set.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Its self explanatory. Arguing about it online is pointless and arguing about it with someone who isnt a pilot at NWA or DAL is even more pointless. This topic has been discussed on so many ridiculous threads its not funny so i wont get into it again, especially since thats not what this thread is about.

The ASA and CMR pilots tried this with the DAL pilots in 2000.....Their elitism and arrogance prevented it....You will learn about the master race soon enough....I'm not trying to argue with you about it.....it is obvious that we should strive towards it....

However in this dysfunctional "association"....the obvious is difficult.....

 

[MJ42]

I'm sorry....the sting from your last smack down must not have faded yet. I wont hold you to your comments. Do tell...

....and me? bitter? you embody the term. Now get your a** back on reserve!About what? I'm completely happy with my career, from your past posts I find it hard that you can say that too. BTW, I choose to bid LONG CALL reserve instead of being a block holder. Last month I had 18 days at home including all weekends and still flew 65 hours! So, I'll gladly go back to my reserve life.

I think Superpilot proved you're full of it, talk about a smack down!