AirTran Airways Reports All-Time Record May Traffic

[Benhuntn]

Yes, I'm sure our management is interested in us passing along the theories of some RJ pilot on a message board.

You don't look to be much past the rj stage, Buck Rogers.

 

[maxblast72]

BFD --- It's all irrelevant if you can't make money doing it..

It is good news that load factors are still increasing even with all the ticket price increases going through. If the load factors start decreasing significantly with these higher prices, that is a sign that we have found the consumer's breaking point. That would be bad news.

So far the consumer isn't balking at the higher prices. That is good news for the future as we try to catch ticket prices up to the quickly escalating price of fuel. Remember alot of our tickets were purchased long before this fuel spike hit.

 

[PCL_128]

You don't look to be much past the rj stage, Buck Rogers.

I'm not the one trying to "school" management on yield management theories.

 

[Colonel Savage]

You don't look to be much past the rj stage, Buck Rogers.

Interresting comment from a pilot who says he flys "light twins for SWA"...

 

[Adiabatic Pilot]

Interresting comment from a pilot who says he flys "light twins for SWA"...

Don't worry, BenHuntn has been flying some pretty big jets for a long, long time...and his humor must have zinged right over your head.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I've done the research many times. You're simply incorrect. In many cases, our fares are higher than Delta. Usually the fares are identical. It's extremely rare that our fare is below DAL's.

They are identical because Delta has had to lower fares to match AirTran on routes where Delta previously had no competition. Years ago, when AirTran began LA service with the Airbus, it had a net result of Delta's operating profit on the MD11 going from ~$200,000 per flight down to break-even.

I'm not saying it was unfair, or wrong. It was the low fare business model and competition. Delta throws RJ's at 717 at a loss as a competitive response rather than withdraw. It is a tough business.

Delta is more efficient now and says it can compete with AirTran head to head. Delta has an advantage in their larger route structure that can get more revenue from flights from anywhere to anywhere.

AirTran does, at times, beat Delta on service. Delta can not tolerate this from its' employees and contractors. 1 Billion dollar seat and inflight entertainment packages do not impress if pax are greeted by a rude agent, of the Panasonic IFE rarely works. RJ's are not service competitive with 717's.

My folks (on the side job) and wife can most often find cheaper fares at AirTran and buy them instead of Delta. Delta's cheap fares usually sell out faster. They like AirTran's service on short flights. On longer flights they very much prefer Delta's amenities.

Unlike Beantown, I had to say no to my folks, or wife buying tickets on AirTran. Not that I've got anything against you guys, but we're a Delta family. It just kills me when the same pilots that bitch about low fare airlines buy tickets because they saved money by not flying their own brand - duh.

AirTran is going to have to keep raising fares. There is no such thing as a low cost airline any more. It is all expensive. How that will effect "AirTran - Go there's nothing stopping you" cheap mantra, who knows? But there is no doubt AirTran runs a good airline.

 

[Ty Webb]

They are identical because Delta has had to lower fares to match AirTran on routes where Delta previously had no competition..

Thanks for a well-written post . . . I would agree with much of what you wrote in your post, but the situation between Delta and Airtran is kind of a "chicken or the egg" question.

In my observation, AirTran lowers the fares in a market when they enter it, it is obvious, however, Delta's response is to "dump seats" into that market, to try to "keep market share". That prevents AirTran from raising the price.

The example I like to use is Pensacola, FL. Before AirTran, Delta had 4 or 5 flights a day from PNS to ATL, using DC9 and RJ's. Since AirTran entered the market Delta now has 8 flights a day, mostly MD88, and even including a B757! AirTran operates 5 B717 a day.

Obviously, there was much more traffic to ATL at the lower rate structure, but where is the "happy medium", and how do you get there in this dysfunctional relationship, with one lowering the market price, and the other responding by dumping capacity into that market? Should they go on "Springer" together and throw folding chairs at each other? :laugh:

What's the solution? I don't know. I would be in favor of regulation saying that "no airline can offer a fare on a route that is less than its cost to operate that route" or something to that effect.

TW

 

[Networ-King]

Should they go on "Springer" together and throw folding chairs at each other? :laugh:

TW

That wasn't springer.... that was Heraldo Rivera .

Net

 

[gearup5]

Now if we could only get Captains to quit picking up FO open time.....

 

[Colonel Savage]

Now if we could only get Captains to quit picking up FO open time.....

They can do that? Please tell me you're kidding.

 

[Colonel Savage]

"...Years ago, when AirTran began LA service with the Airbus..."

When did AirTran fly Airbii?

 

[ultrarunner]

Price, on-time, and arrive with bags seem to be the only thing people care about nowadays.

Heck, is there anything else to care about!!!???

I only care about the first two...not necessarily in that order...I carry on...

What else is there...other than avoid booking on an RJ, which I also do. Add that to the list.

 

[JoeMerchant]

"...Years ago, when AirTran began LA service with the Airbus..."

When did AirTran fly Airbii?

They contracted it out to Ryan until the 737s came on line....Contract flying with airplanes of any size is OK unless you are a "regional"....

 

[Lear70]

They can do that? Please tell me you're kidding.

No, we're not kidding.

The problem this month seems to be that FLICA is including F/O open time in the CA open time bin, and the CA's picking up trips from open time only realize it's an F/O trip when the final pairing shows up in their schedule.

It's a glitch, but there ARE Captains who are DELIBERATELY picking up F/O open time for CA pay. I have my personal feelings on the matter, but it's a matter of personal preference.

Interestingly enough, right seat Sim qualification training for CA's has become mandatory, although the assignment of F/O trips for CA's is still strictly voluntary.

 

[CatfishVT9]

I call BS on that one. I haven't heard about or seen 2 CAs flying together except for IOE. And I sure haven't seen FO open time show up in FLICA. I'm staring at that screen watching for open time most of the days it seems.

By the way, it's the line holders who pick up most of the open time, not the reserves as the urban legend goes...........

 

[Lear70]

I call BS on that one. I haven't heard about or seen 2 CAs flying together except for IOE. And I sure haven't seen FO open time show up in FLICA. I'm staring at that screen watching for open time most of the days it seems.

Go check out the private boards, been posted there for 2 days...

By the way, it's the line holders who pick up most of the open time, not the reserves as the urban legend goes...........

Didn't say it was the reserves, although guys are b*tching about that, too, wondering why they aren't allowed to touch it on their off-days, especially if it's still in open time the day before.

 

[jehtplane]

No, we're not kidding.

The problem this month seems to be that FLICA is including F/O open time in the CA open time bin, and the CA's picking up trips from open time only realize it's an F/O trip when the final pairing shows up in their schedule.

It's a glitch, but there ARE Captains who are DELIBERATELY picking up F/O open time for CA pay. I have my personal feelings on the matter, but it's a matter of personal preference.

Interestingly enough, right seat Sim qualification training for CA's has become mandatory, although the assignment of F/O trips for CA's is still strictly voluntary.

Heard the same thing, personally I think that any Captain who deliberately picks up FO open time is a piece of @#%$!!!! Stick to your own opentime pot or go back to the right seat. There are enough people lining their own pockets here already.

 

[PCL_128]

They can do that? Please tell me you're kidding.

Nope. It's allowed per the contract. I haven't seen anyone doing it, although I've heard that some are. Probably the same group that supported raising the retirement age.

 

[PCL_128]

They contracted it out to Ryan until the 737s came on line....Contract flying with airplanes of any size is OK unless you are a "regional"....

The difference is that the outsourcing was temporary just to allow time for the 737s to arrive. Permanent outsourcing is a big difference.

 

[Kharma Police]

The difference is that the outsourcing was temporary just to allow time for the 737s to arrive. Permanent outsourcing is a big difference.

It was a very smart move by the company and the NPA to have Ryan make an early entry into LAX. We were able (with the help of Delta adding a ton of capacity) to run Jet Blue out of ATL.

 

[ArmadilloJackal]

It was a very smart move by the company and the NPA to have Ryan make an early entry into LAX. We were able (with the help of Delta adding a ton of capacity) to run Jet Blue out of ATL.

Very true, but now I bum rides to work on you guys, and am always treated very well.