Runway heading

[phishhman]

I know this may be a stupid sounding question, but it is something that has never made sense.

When I get "Runway heading, cleared for takeoff" and there is a stiff crosswind, what does ATC want? Do you want me to fly the magnetic heading of the runway and drift off due to the wind, or are you wanting me to track the extended centerline? To me, the latter makes more sense and corrolates to the fixed infrastructure on the ground and radar maps. Or, do you issue runway heading, knowing the wind is there, and that I am gonna drift off the centerline?

Something I have always wondered.

 

[chuckthepilot]

Are you freaking kidding me? THREE SECONDS of searching the pilot/controller glossary will find you the answer. Wow.

 

[CallmeJB]

ATC only cares about aircraft seperation. All aircraft are operating in the airmass (the wind). As far as radar maps go, they're happy as long as all the aircraft are drifting in the same manner. ATC knows what the winds are doing. So, they want you to fly runway heading. Which is why they say "fly runway heading".

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

If you are cleared for takeoff and instructed ruwnay heading off RWY 32L, fly heading 320......All planes will drift the same or close too!

 

[CA1900]

If you are cleared for takeoff and instructed ruwnay heading off RWY 32L, fly heading 320...

Not exactly.

From the Pilot-Controller Glossary:

RUNWAY HEADING- The magnetic direction that corresponds with the runway centerline extended, not the painted runway number. When cleared to "fly or maintain runway heading," pilots are expected to fly or maintain the heading that corresponds with the extended centerline of the departure runway. Drift correction shall not be applied; e.g., Runway 4, actual magnetic heading of the runway centerline 044, fly 044.

 

[Flyin2low]

Wind drift is expected. If you try to help by correcting for the wind you may create a 'min separation' incident.

 

[say again]

How would you maintain the extended centerline in IMC??? A little common sense goes a long way.

 

[AC560]

How would you maintain the extended centerline in IMC??? A little common sense goes a long way.

Fly or maintain without drift correction.

 

[say again]

Fly or maintain without drift correction.

That was my point. You can't maintain runway centerline if you don't have the runway in sight. When tower gives you a maintain runway heading, the mean runway heading, not extended centerline. It's the same clearance regardless of weather. My question above was pure sarcasm, and was stating that it's common sense that you can't maintain centerline while in the clouds.

 

[willNOTfly4free]

That was my point. You can't maintain runway centerline if you don't have the runway in sight. When tower gives you a maintain runway heading, the mean runway heading, not extended centerline. It's the same clearance regardless of weather. My question above was pure sarcasm, and was stating that it's common sense that you can't maintain centerline while in the clouds.

Oh, yes you can.

Actually you can do it quite easily with a GPS. Simply create a user waypoint on the runway centerline and match the OBS to the runway’s magnetic direction. I've done it nearly a hundred times during competitive flying events. However we were not in IMC nor were we instructed to maintain runway heading.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Are you freaking kidding me? THREE SECONDS of searching the pilot/controller glossary will find you the answer. Wow.

chuck you are an idiot. he had a legit question.

 

[willNOTfly4free]

Are you freaking kidding me? THREE SECONDS of searching the pilot/controller glossary will find you the answer. Wow.

These types of message boards are designed so we can talk about anything and everything aviation related. Regardless of how simple a topic may first appear. Comments like yours are often ignored and unwelcomed.

I'm guilty of starting threads I already knew the answer to, just for the sake of beginning an open discussion on an interesting topic. Weird, I know.

 

[ultrarunner]

If you are cleared for takeoff and instructed ruwnay heading off RWY 32L, fly heading 320......All planes will drift the same or close too!

Nope, you fly the heading that is published on the chart. Just look on the airport diagram...you do have it open, right?

But you're right, it's about flying a heading, not a track. If ATC wanted us to TRACK a runway center line after takeoff, there would be a procedure for us to do that, such as a SID.

Runway heading is just that, the magnetic heading designated for that piece of pavement.

Pretty simple stuff.

 

[Say Again Over]

H320, H324, do you thing anyone really cares?

 

[phishhman]

Are you freaking kidding me? THREE SECONDS of searching the pilot/controller glossary will find you the answer. Wow.

I know the book answer, dumba$$. I am asking as to what the motives/intentions of the controller. I was asking in regards to separation. I know some who fly the runway extended centerline. Thanks to those with legit answers. That makes sense. My point was the heading vs. track argument.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Nope, you fly the heading that is published on the chart. Just look on the airport diagram...you do have it open, right?

But you're right, it's about flying a heading, not a track. If ATC wanted us to TRACK a runway center line after takeoff, there would be a procedure for us to do that, such as a SID.

Runway heading is just that, the magnetic heading designated for that piece of pavement.

Pretty simple stuff.

close enough....I was making a point as to you fly the heading of the runway, I didn't realize I had to be so specific.....********************, maybe I have to go back to OKC for some more training...

 

[JECKEL]

This is what I have found intriguing.

Bluegrass Departure off 18L in CVG. Says fly 184 HEADING to the 1.5 DME off ICIZ then a left turn to 165 Heading, radar vector etc etc.

The departure also sites a waypoint that is 1.5 DME off the ICIZ loc as DRUSS. So if you draw a line extending the runway centerline to a distance of 1.5 DME off ICIZ there sits DRUSS. DRUSS is the turning point right? So I just NAV to DRUSS and make my turn ... pretty simple. (It's also in the FMS as part of the departure)

But if you have a 20 knot wind out of the West, flying a 184 Heading as the Departure calls for will leave you East of the DRUSS waypoint.

So what I'm getting to is ... why the waypoint? Why is DRUSS even on the Jepp? The procedure is to fly a heading, not a course to a waypoint. I guess it would be wrong to "fly' to DRUSS.

Any thoughts?

 

[Baronman]

I think the difference lies in an aircraft departing IFR on a SID etc and a VFR aircraft.

Remember back when flying GA, when you were cleared for takeoff and there was a crosswind, you crabbed into the wind to maintain the extended centerline. Of course you rarely got an instruction such as "fly runway heading...cleared for TO." This was especially true when flying patterns at the airport, teaching wind correction to students.

Flying IFR however is different and I think you fly the published RWY HDG. There are cases especially in Canada where on missed approaches they'll ask you to fly the XXX degree track till 5.0 DME.

 

[murfdawg998]

Are you freaking kidding me? THREE SECONDS of searching the pilot/controller glossary will find you the answer. Wow.

Chuck you are the greatest pilot in the world. I need to know where you teach so I can get some dual from the Almighty Chuck; if you have any availability. Wow.

 

[CallmeJB]

This is what I have found intriguing.

Bluegrass Departure off 18L in CVG. Says fly 184 HEADING to the 1.5 DME off ICIZ then a left turn to 165 Heading, radar vector etc etc.

The departure also sites a waypoint that is 1.5 DME off the ICIZ loc as DRUSS. So if you draw a line extending the runway centerline to a distance of 1.5 DME off ICIZ there sits DRUSS. DRUSS is the turning point right? So I just NAV to DRUSS and make my turn ... pretty simple. (It's also in the FMS as part of the departure)

But if you have a 20 knot wind out of the West, flying a 184 Heading as the Departure calls for will leave you East of the DRUSS waypoint.

So what I'm getting to is ... why the waypoint? Why is DRUSS even on the Jepp? The procedure is to fly a heading, not a course to a waypoint. I guess it would be wrong to "fly' to DRUSS.

Any thoughts?

The Collins 4200 database has this departure built as a 184 vector to 1.5 DME, and then turn. As an alternative, you could just fly 184 until abeam DRUSS, and then turn. That's why the waypoint is there.