CommutAir votes in ALPA

[Spotswood]

It's official. The results show that 89% of the pilot group voted for ALPA representation. Thanks to everyone who helped.

 

[centralpilot]

Congrats! Just in time for ALPA to start taking dues out of 401k contributions!

 

[CA1900]

Now that's a turnout! Wish it had passed in 2002 when we tried it the first time, but I'm very happy to hear the news. Good luck on the contract, guys -- the pay and, in particular, the work rules need a serious overhaul.

 

[PCL_128]

Congrats! Just in time for ALPA to start taking dues out of 401k contributions!

While you whine about an extra $20 in dues per month to keep the Association solvent, these guys are trying to get their first contract and end the massive gang-rape from management that has given them crappy pay and nonexistent work rules. Keep it in perspective.

 

[Nevets]

Congrats! Just in time for ALPA to start taking dues out of 401k contributions!

That is factually incorrect.

 

[CDHannah]

This is a good day for the pilots at Commutair. There's still a lot of work ahead, but this by far was the biggest hurdle to get over.

 

[Superpilot92]

Congrats guys!!

 

[centralpilot]

While you whine about an extra $20 in dues per month to keep the Association solvent, these guys are trying to get their first contract and end the massive gang-rape from management that has given them crappy pay and nonexistent work rules. Keep it in perspective.

Good point, although I'd argue that if ALPA needs more dues to remain solvent they should do it with a regular dues increase that would apply to all ALPA pilot groups.

 

[PCL_128]

Good point, although I'd argue that if ALPA needs more dues to remain solvent they should do it with a regular dues increase that would apply to all ALPA pilot groups.

I agree. So call your status reps and tell them to vote NO on the dues increase. It's not settled yet. It still goes to a BOD vote.

 

[OurMoney1]

Pay Cut

CONGRATS!!!

You just ratified your first pay cut.

Add your name to the list of carriers screwed by ALPA....

Regional pilots who think ALPA is the answer...silly kids.

 

[PCL_128]

What they just ratified was career protection.

MD-11 pilots who think they're too good for a union.....silly dumbasses.

 

[BigMeat]

Congrats guys.....Its about time. Many of us tried before to push this through. I hope that you stay united in putting this together and then going for your first contract. I wish we had that turn out, right CA1900?

 

[Bdfg1]

PCL-We are starting a new union, "PFT'ers United" We'd like to nominate you as the first serving president of the union.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL-We are starting a new union, "PFT'ers United" We'd like to nominate you as the first serving president of the union.

No thanks. I'll let JoeyMerchant handle that one.

 

[centralpilot]

I agree. So call your status reps and tell them to vote NO on the dues increase. It's not settled yet. It still goes to a BOD vote.

Done, but I'll be surprised if the BOD votes it down.

 

[PCL_128]

Done, but I'll be surprised if the BOD votes it down.

I wouldn't be. I think it'll be a split vote. Could go either way. If the pilots make enough noise, it'll go down in flames. As always, it's up to the membership to take ownership of their careers and their union.

 

[centralpilot]

I wouldn't be. I think it'll be a split vote. Could go either way. If the pilots make enough noise, it'll go down in flames. As always, it's up to the membership to take ownership of their careers and their union.

True; I hope you're right.

 

[Gemboy75]

According to PCL-128's other thread,

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=112860&highlight=commutair

the acutal percentage was 90.6% and if you were to subtract the 4 pilots on some sort of leave, a couple of whom have been gone for over a year and most likely didn't get their information to vote or just weren't able to vote, the percentage would go up to 93.8%.

This solidarity just shows how terrible the work rules and pay issues have become at this once respectable regional. Congrats to all those who stepped up and took the obvious risks assosiated with a union drive, my hat's off to you all.

Now lets keep up the efforts to form a solid binding contract to raise our standards above the gutters.

 

[CX880]

Now lets keep up the efforts to form a solid binding contract to raise our standards above the gutters.

Maybe you can make Horizon rates, good luck.

 

[Gemboy75]

Anything is better than substandard. I wish I could give tours of our current crew closet.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ALPA needs allot of work if it loses SKYW and USAIR and gains Commutair. That is a net gain of negative. Congrats to the Commutair guys regardless.

In addition, it just isn't the right time for a dues increase no matter how its done.

 

[PCL_128]

In addition, it just isn't the right time for a dues increase no matter how its done.

Disagree, unless the EC will agree to release MCF funds to the OCF. Without that, the OCF needs to be funded somehow. Revenue must come up.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Disagree, unless the EC will agree to release MCF funds to the OCF. Without that, the OCF needs to be funded somehow. Revenue must come up.

Agreed.... but the membership is disconnected on such as level that they can't understand the issue...

If the membership was polled... what % would be in favor?

ALPA decert is the flavor of the month right now...

 

[PCL_128]

Agreed.... but the membership is disconnected on such as level that they can't understand the issue...

Agreed, but irrelevant. If you don't raise revenue just so you can make the membership happy in the short term, then you bankrupt the union and everyone is unhappy long-term. Short of shifting MCF funds, the OCF will soon be bankrupt. No amount of staff cuts will change that. The money has to come from somewhere.

ALPA decert is the flavor of the month right now...

Do you think that would be the case if Duane would have been reelected two years ago? Personally, I see a conflagration of problems that could have easily been avoided by a smarter leader than Prater. Would Duane have flubbed the Age 60 issues as Prater did? Would Duane have flubbed the AWA/AAA issue to the point of allowing the creation of USCABA? I don't think so. These massive blunders by an incompetent leader have lead us to this point. ALPA decert wouldn't even be on the radar if these mistakes had not been made. Pilots can forgive massive concessions, because they vote on them. What they can't forgive is a change to an Age 60 policy that they voted against. They can't forgive a dues increase that is snuck in the back door. These are the kinds of things that lead to rebellion, and they can all be sourced to Prater. Prater needs to go.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Agreed, but irrelevant. If you don't raise revenue just so you can make the membership happy in the short term, then you bankrupt the union and everyone is unhappy long-term. Short of shifting MCF funds, the OCF will soon be bankrupt. No amount of staff cuts will change that. The money has to come from somewhere.

If we continue to alienate the membership they were decert ALPA property by property...

The leadership needs to connect with the membership. It never really has... so the blame game types can calm down...

The membership of course needs to step up too..

Do you think that would be the case if Duane would have been reelected two years ago? Personally, I see a conflagration of problems that could have easily been avoided by a smarter leader than Prater. Would Duane have flubbed the Age 60 issues as Prater did? Would Duane have flubbed the AWA/AAA issue to the point of allowing the creation of USCABA? I don't think so. These massive blunders by an incompetent leader have lead us to this point. ALPA decert wouldn't even be on the radar if these mistakes had not been made. Pilots can forgive massive concessions, because they vote on them. What they can't forgive is a change to an Age 60 policy that they voted against. They can't forgive a dues increase that is snuck in the back door. These are the kinds of things that lead to rebellion, and they can all be sourced to Prater. Prater needs to go.

Agreed... DW was the better choice... but the UAL and CAL guys had to look out for themselves and not the profession....

Not sure if Prater needs to go...maybe... whos the replacement?

 

[DX Rick]

In addition, it just isn't the right time for a dues increase no matter how its done.

ALPA thinks it's the right time to take more dues from it's members, but not the right time to ask companies for pay raises.
Makes a lot of sense.

 

[PCL_128]

If we continue to alienate the membership they were decert ALPA property by property...

Agreed, but what's your solution to the OCF short-fall? If you don't increase revenue simply because you don't want to piss off the membership, then the OCF will go bankrupt. It's not a matter of if, but when (and probably soon).

Not sure if Prater needs to go...maybe... whos the replacement?

I can think of a few names. Number one would be Captain Rice. Hell, let's just send a delegation down to Florida to beg Duane to come back. But Prater must go. His first 18 months have been some of the worst in ALPA history, and he's personally responsible for a lot of the problems.

 

[BankAccount=0$]

Shouldn't this thread here to welcome the CommutAir pilot group to ALPA. Prater/ Woerth bickering as valid as it may be isn't really the intent of the thread.

Just to get things back on track, CommutAir pilots welcome to the great ALPA world. While it may not be the solution to all of the world's problems, it is a step in the right direction to getting you guys some sort of work rules and hopefully the compensation that you all deserve. I remember flying the dreaded CZ trip out of CLE, I remember being "pencil-whipped" into the worlds worst schedule, and I sure as He*l remember sitting in HPN waiting for the fog to lift for hours while not being paid for my time. Congrats on your overwhelmingly successful drive to unionize, and congrats for showing the Plattsburgh gang just how united you all are at having a prosperous future.

 

[DoinTime]

Would Duane have flubbed the Age 60 issues as Prater did?

Do you honestly think the age 60 smack down was avoidable? Age 60+ was coming whether anyone in ALPA liked it or not. In the end ALPA was able to secure many extremely valuable protections in this legislation. Those would not have been there had ALPA dug in with its opposition. I wasn't in favor of raising the retirement age but I am smart enough to know what to do when I walk into a gun fight armed only with a knife.

One of the hallmarks of great leadership is the ability to deviate from the will of the uneducated masses when they are running full steam towards the edge of the cliff.

Would Duane have flubbed the AWA/AAA issue to the point of allowing the creation of USCABA? I don't think so.

The AAA pilots were lost the day the Nic award came out. Defection was the only means for relief on the perceived cram down on seniority. The only way Prater (or anyone) could have saved that situation would have been to violate ALPA merger policy and set aside the Nic award. Clearly, he wasn't about to do that.

These massive blunders by an incompetent leader have lead us to this point. ALPA decert wouldn't even be on the radar if these mistakes had not been made. Pilots can forgive massive concessions, because they vote on them. What they can't forgive is a change to an Age 60 policy that they voted against. They can't forgive a dues increase that is snuck in the back door. These are the kinds of things that lead to rebellion, and they can all be sourced to Prater. Prater needs to go.

Who would you recommend as a replacement? Moak? Webb? Bathurst? Tell me you have a better plan than this?

Cutting off your head because you don't like it does not equate to a successful revolution. In fact, it wreaks of the cowardly defection of our former AAA brothers and sisters.

 

[TWA Dude]

The AAA pilots were lost the day the Nic award came out.

I disagree. They were "lost" during their second trip through Chapter 11.

Defection was the only means for relief on the perceived cram down on seniority.

No "relief" is in store for them. Only the lawyer they pay to tell them what they wish to hear says changing unions changes binding arbitration.

Not trying for thread creep. I congratulate CommuteAir for voting ALPA as well but their expectations must be realistic. Previously they've been able to blame their management for everything -- now they'll have a potential scapegoat in ALPA if it fails to fix everything. Of course ALPA can't fix everything and the lesson of the USAir (East) pilot group is that scapegoating solves nothing and will likely make things worse. (Hint: the former AWA pilots will not sit back idly when USAPA tries to steal our seniority at the negotiating table.)