NWA Phantom retirements

[GogglesPisano]

While on reserve on the 737 in NYC, I never made more than 70hrs. Despite having a standing green slip with conflict for the whole month. I flew about 25 hrs/month.

It differs from category to category.

I hope the ER is more lucrative.

 

[Superpilot92]

737: I'll go ahead and state it. I make 70% more than mi amigo Superpilot 92. Throw in the Company's contribution to the 401K/B fund and the number is around 80% more. For new hires the difference is astonishing. 50 v/s 30 and 11% v/s 2.4% for starters.

For those who considered employers based on a break even analysis, Delta, Fed Ex, UPS and SWA were the only options.

How much will i be making when i am your age Gramps? LMAO

 

[737 Pylt]

For the love of God, please, please bring the hat optional thing over here. We have guys who wear it in the crew van!!

I got nailed once for not having it. I gave him this look of shock, looked around, and then said, "The best I can figure is that I left it under my pillow this morning." Instant get out of jail free

Puff:
just tell them you're NYC based and lost your entire uniform in the "flood" last month. Its the instant not wear your hat card being played out there! For the record, I haven't left anything in the lounge for years, but just so happened to leave my hat in the lounge the day of the flood, imagine that!

737

 

[~~~^~~~]

Goggles - GS out of base the problem?

 

[~~~^~~~]

How much will i be making when i am your age Gramps? LMAO

I hoping you'll have problems with your uber hot Asian/American daughter by then.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8308962544653504641

 

[GogglesPisano]

Goggles - GS out of base the problem?

I never put in for out of base. Didn't want to try to j/s when I can drive to NYC.

 

[FDJ2]

However, we expect and will accept nothing less than the movement we're about to experience at NWA. Just like the movement you have already got to experience at DAL.

If it goes to arbitration you'll have no choice on what you'll accept, you'll get what you get whether you like it or not. Have you seen any arbitrators award a dynamic list? I didn't think so. Generally what matters is where you sit on your list, aircraft and contract.

 

[DTW320]

Ok, OK, even though I put you on ignore a while back I occasionally peek when I'm bored. So here goes:

You'll have to show where anyone said they make 20% more. I know based on today's figures DAL pilots are paid on the average 10% more. OK, here ya go....Sport:

DBCOOPER wrote:
Wrong. I'm in my 2nd yr on the 737 and i make 20% more than a 2nd yr. 320 guy.

Crappy airplanes. Lets see, our average fleet age, including the DC9, is 4 years older than DAL's. Old is still old. What's the average age of those DC-9's? Let's just say....old. But according to you guys they are going away pronto (thanks to your scope clause....or lack thereof)Were you even born when they went into production?Yes.....but my wife wasn't. We have the largest fleet of A330's in the world, with an average age of less than 4 years. So, can you pat yourself on the back using your left hand, because everyond knows where your right hand is.....BFD!Sounds like a personal problem you've been thinking about....good luck overcoming that. I flew an ER that had a production date of March 2001, probably the same year you were either hired or born! Yawn....I just flew a 319 with a production date of Nov 2003...did you even have any type ratings then?....and, yes, Mr. mathematically challenged, I am more than 7 years old (see Faa.gov for ATP age requirements)Your 777 is very nice. I wished we had gotten them instead. But our CEO at the time of the order said that they were not enough airplane for our Transpac flights and too much for Europe. What was his name again, and whatever happened to him???You'll find out soon enough sport! Um...yeah, I know where he went. Care to comment on his thoughts about the A330?

Crappy bases. Hey, I don't live in DTW but I fly with many who do and seem to like the Ann Arbor area a lot. Your SLC is nice I'm sure, but the last time I sat in traffic in ATL to get to the "latest dead former mayor of Atlanta International Airport" in the charming humidity of July......I was not that impressed. Not a big fan of Atlanta myself, but I do hear that Minneapolis has the distinction of having the fattest people in the country. An award to be very proud of! Didn't know that. I'll ask one of the DAL guys commuting MSP-ATL that I regularly see if he knew that. I did know that it has the highest number of Fortune 500 corporate HQ's though and one of the highest per capita income's and education levels. NYC? Have fun commuting there (I hear they have very few delays) because on second year DAL pay I personally wouldn't accept the standard of living that it would buy me and my family if we lived in base. Just pick up the trailer and move it to wherever you want, its not too difficult! I guess you're the expert there dude. What model of washing machine do you have on your front porch now? CVG? Looked kinda bad on WKRP so I haven't been....and I don't think anyone else has either. WKRP? What were you like 1 or 2 when that was on? Nah, I was old enough to appreciate Loni back then.LAX? Well, the weather is nice, but see "NYC" above for standard of living comments.See above comments for moving the trailer for ease of commuting! If I bid it will you clue me in on your favorite campgrounds/trailer parks/underpasses?
Maybe they haven't told the 2 year guys like yourself....but we ARE merging. And you're right. It won't be hard at all. We'll be the guys not wearing hats and actually saying "Hi" to other pilots we pass in the terminal I'm sorry was that you? I mistook you for the skycap looking for his $2 tip! Nope......all the Skycaps I see are wearing hats. Not I.

BTW, around 75% of my non-airline-pilot friends are not impressed with the annual income of either your 777CA's or our 744CA's. I bet they're impressed that you don't have to wear your hat though! Google "airline pilot income buying power 2008 vs 1970" for reference. They would find it "odd" that we were arguing about what % your pathetic salary is above a 320fo's pathetic salary.And on this note, I agree with you!
BTW 320, the above is all in jest and TIC. After all, this is FI!:laugh:

737

 

[~~~^~~~]

I never put in for out of base. Didn't want to try to j/s when I can drive to NYC.

I heard the 737 was staffed well, but things will change this fall. Got no idea of the 757/767 situation, but I thought NYC was GS city.

 

[nonstop]

If it goes to arbitration you'll have no choice on what you'll accept, you'll get what you get whether you like it or not. Have you seen any arbitrators award a dynamic list? I didn't think so. Generally what matters is where you sit on your list, aircraft and contract.

Well aware of that, I don't think you need to remind NWA pilots of the perils of arbitration. We'll end up there if DAL won't concede to a fair proposal and the outcome will likely be more favorable in arbitration. Judging by the outrageous stances voiced on here and proposals from your MEC arbitration seems very likely. Unfortunately Moak has your expectations so out of whack there's no way he'll be able to slice them back down to reality in time to avoid expedited arbitration.

 

[Superpilot92]

I hoping you'll have problems with your uber hot Asian/American daughter by then.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8308962544653504641

Nah not going to happen. Asian chicks arent my thing i am all about the good old fashioned American girls. imp:

 

[jetjockey#1]

That is inaccurate. For the June flying month, the guy 99% down the list is 757FO Reserve in either MSP or DTW.

The 95% down the list is a March 2001 hire.

Should I be junior to this guy? I am 94.6% down the list even though I was hired Jul07. I am a 767 line holder with at least 16 days off, and 85+ a month, flying where I want to. Why should I be bumped off to reserve.

That's why relative seniority is the only fair way. whatever percentage you are at your airline same percentage at the new DAL+-1%.

 

[nonstop]

Should I be junior to this guy? I am 94.6% down the list even though I was hired Jul07. I am a 767 line holder with at least 16 days off, and 85+ a month, flying where I want to. Why should I be bumped off to reserve.

That's why relative seniority is the only fair way. whatever percentage you are at your airline same percentage at the new DAL+-1%.

Once again there's a lot more to the equation than a snapshot of today.

I nor anyone reasonable believes that people should be bumped off of anything. If you're a 767 line holder I would expect and want you to continue to be a 767 line holder.

 

[Superpilot92]

Once again there's a lot more to the equation than a snapshot of today.

I nor anyone reasonable believes that people should be bumped off of anything. If you're a 767 line holder I would expect and want you to continue to be a 767 line holder.

Yup, there are alot of factors to be included and this isnt about only today. Career expectations are also a factor.

 

[DTW320]

Should I be junior to this guy? Who said you should?I am 94.6% down the list even though I was hired Jul07. I am a 767 line holder with at least 16 days off, and 85+ a month,sounds like you're working too hard. flying where I want to. Why should I be bumped off to reserve.

That's why relative seniority is the only fair way. whatever percentage you are at your airline same percentage at the new DAL+-1%Sounds great.....how did DALPA's relative seniority proposal look 5 years down the road? 10?What was the +/- % then?Could I interest you in a nice color graph?

Should the NWA guy be put junior to 1000 DAL pilots that haven't even been hired yet?

 

[nwaredtail]

That's why relative seniority is the only fair way. whatever percentage you are at your airline same percentage at the new DAL+-1%.

[/QUOTE]

So how would you handle the 1988 hire at NWA, who is the #1 757FO because, say his wife is a doctor, but could hold 757 Captain?

BTW, the Roberts award, the largest arbitration of it's time, was dynamic.

 

[Superpilot92]

Should I be junior to this guy? I am 94.6% down the list even though I was hired Jul07. I am a 767 line holder with at least 16 days off, and 85+ a month, flying where I want to. Why should I be bumped off to reserve.

That's why relative seniority is the only fair way. whatever percentage you are at your airline same percentage at the new DAL+-1%.

What percentage would you be if you hadnt had the pension buyout? lets buyout the top guys at NWA and see where i stand. its alot more complex than you portray it to be. Just friendly food for thought.

 

[Who Dey]

Why do none of the Delta pilots respond to Moak's proposal to have 1000 pilots not even hired yet getting ahead of me on seniority?

I have an answer but it contains profanity so I would like to hear from them.

 

[PuffDriver]

Just curious, if you subscribe to the common notion that a successful merger results in both sides being pissed off, what DAL pilots do you see being p/o'd and why? Your assumptions about the outcome clearly spell out why NWA pilots would be pissed, who would be pissed at DAL in your scenario?

Me. Everyone else who is within a hairs breath of captain on the ER and junior. So just a bit over halfway up the list on down. We will instantly stagnate while we had finally seen some movement, and a lot more coming with 6 777s at the end of the year. As it is, we may still see that absent an agreement. Ask me the question again in October .

FWIW, I'll take the stagnation for company stability.

 

[Noserider76]

Why do none of the Delta pilots respond to Moak's proposal to have 1000 pilots not even hired yet getting ahead of me on seniority?

I have an answer but it contains profanity so I would like to hear from them.

Because we don't know what the hell you're talking about. If you have proof put it here and make sure you put it in context so we can judge for ourselves.

I have my own question. Why do no NW pilots respond when asked why your MEC made a proposal, ours accepted. Your MEC asked ours to run the numbers and when they saw the results they rejected their own offer. I guess it's just eaiser to cluelessly blame Moak.

 

[PuffDriver]

Somehow double post

 

[Noserider76]

So how would you handle the 1988 hire at NWA, who is the #1 757FO because, say his wife is a doctor, but could hold 757 Captain?

BTW, the Roberts award, the largest arbitration of it's time, was dynamic.[/quote]

If it followed the last arbitrated settlement it would put everyone on each list in the highest paying position he could hold at his company. This of course assumes everyone senior is also in their highest paying position. So a new guy might be a 767FO but he would be a -88FO on the list.

 

[PuffDriver]

Puff:
just tell them you're NYC based and lost your entire uniform in the "flood" last month. Its the instant not wear your hat card being played out there! For the record, I haven't left anything in the lounge for years, but just so happened to leave my hat in the lounge the day of the flood, imagine that!

737

I tried that on3e day. My hat actually did get stolen. I went in and told them that I would be without a hat for awhile until I could get down to ATL for one. She pulled out a box of brand new hats and GAVE me one. Sometimes you just can't win

 

[800Dog]

I tried that on3e day. My hat actually did get stolen. I went in and told them that I would be without a hat for awhile until I could get down to ATL for one. She pulled out a box of brand new hats and GAVE me one. Sometimes you just can't win

What a good little Delta guy. You actually took the time to tell "them" you would be without a hat for awhile? I have left my hat at home for years. Grow a pair!

 

[PuffDriver]

What a good little Delta guy. You actually took the time to tell "them" you would be without a hat for awhile? I have left my hat at home for years. Grow a pair!

They pay you to wear the hat. I wear it. I went through my I-will-do-as-I-please-and-nobody-will-tell-me-different phase. I grew out of it. You will too.

BTW, I've got a pair--got the children to prove it. Go and :bawling: somewhere else. I will be the first one to lose the hat when it is within the bounds of the FOM. Good way to lose your job. Of course, you probably don't care if you do since Delta pilots are all a bunch of "idiots" anyway.

Whatever, tough guy.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Dog,

Are you sure you are not a nwa pilot trying pretending to be dal If you are a delta pilot I hope that there are more like you and look forward to flying with you. Mgmt has us where they want us fighting/slamming each other and taking our eye off the ball. Unlike puff,gen, that are falling for the old trick of shooting inside the circle you can see the forest thru the trees. Here is to you:beer:

What a good little Delta guy. You actually took the time to tell "them" you would be without a hat for awhile? I have left my hat at home for years. Grow a pair!

 

[Noserider76]

They pay you to wear the hat. I wear it. I went through my I-will-do-as-I-please-and-nobody-will-tell-me-different phase. I grew out of it. You will too.

BTW, I've got a pair--got the children to prove it. Go and :bawling: somewhere else. I will be the first one to lose the hat when it is within the bounds of the FOM. Good way to lose your job. Of course, you probably don't care if you do since Delta pilots are all a bunch of "idiots" anyway.

Whatever, tough guy.

I'm with you dude. They pay us to do a job, wear the uniform they tell us to and fly expensive airplanes loaded with people's families. I hate the hat and being a military guy it still feels weird wearing it indoors but BFD, it's not too much to ask. I have to laugh when I see the slobs and the guys with backpacks on and ipods in who think they look really cool. The passengers are laughing too.

 

[jetjockey#1]

So how would you handle the 1988 hire at NWA, who is the #1 757FO because, say his wife is a doctor, but could hold 757 Captain?

BTW, the Roberts award, the largest arbitration of it's time, was dynamic.[/quote]


That’s the beauty of relative seniority. If he is #1 on the 75, and let’s say 47% at NWA, he will be in the same exact position in the new DAL at 47%, and #1 on the 75 unless somebody senior to him in the company bids over, which this could happen tomorrow. The fact of the matter is you can not say how many retirements there will be in the next 5 years. Right of the bat somebody stated that out 137 possible retirements this year so far 37 stayed on. That’s a 27% decrease in retirements right away.

Food for thought, I should be next to a March 2001 NWA in the list percentage ways 95%. With a DOH SLI I would be 98-99% with an additional 300 pilots ahead of me. I know this is not about me, it’s about 13000 pilots, but nobody should get a bump of 3-4% on seniority not matter what. And yes, I believe big tall fences make great neighbors.

 

[PuffDriver]

Dog,

Are you sure you are not a nwa pilot trying pretending to be dal If you are a delta pilot I hope that there are more like you and look forward to flying with you. Mgmt has us where they want us fighting/slamming each other and taking our eye off the ball. Unlike puff,gen, that are falling for the old trick of shooting inside the circle you can see the forest thru the trees. Here is to you:beer:

So what's your beef with me? Pissed that somebody doesn't think your version of a seniority list is acceptable? Pissed that I think that your MEC is in damage control mode because their usual tactic of arbitration didn't work? All of my posts have been spot on. It doesn't make me a double breasted sky god, it doesn't make me too good to fly a DC-9--to the contrary I would love to get back to steam gauges again, it doesn't make me want seniority at the expense of another, nor does it make me any different than anybody else who actually wants a FAIR deal.

So I wear my hat, BFD. I used to leave it at home, and then grew out of my rebelliousness for rebelliousness phase. I also show up to informational picketing, work in the strike center, have done a TON of union work-prior to having kids, buy ALL the beer on l/o and any meal we eat together, split the preflights 50/50--even in the rain and snow, loathe management and management pilots, hate the hat, you know--pretty much above your average line schmuck on the union side. I would love a DOH NSL, am an Aries, and my favorite color is blue. I do NOT carry around the venom of my fellow Delta pilots, and have defended many people I dislike, and won their case for them. I hope you find some happiness 800. Sounds like you need it badly.

I love my people--pull!!

 

[800Dog]

Dog,

Are you sure you are not a nwa pilot trying pretending to be dal If you are a delta pilot I hope that there are more like you and look forward to flying with you. Mgmt has us where they want us fighting/slamming each other and taking our eye off the ball. Unlike puff,gen, that are falling for the old trick of shooting inside the circle you can see the forest thru the trees. Here is to you:beer:

Real Delta guy. Just in the minority over here. That will change when the NWA folks come over. Delta was not my first choice. Just the home town airline. My references told me the Delta pilots were weak when it came to standing up to management and they were absolutely right. The majority seem to think they are part of the management team and viewed as an asset. Management has and will slit our throats when the opportunity presents itself. Read the bankruptcy transcripts for clarification as to what management thinks of us. As for the hat, the passengers could care less. They want to arrive on time in a clean airplane. A ? for those who say the FOM says wear your hat. Ever violate sterile cockpit or read enroute? What does the FOM say about that? Looking forward to a shift in the balance of power at the bid D!!