NWA Phantom retirements

[PuffDriver]

I see it coming down to DOH with at least a 5 yr fence so then the age 65 retirements starts kicking in to move career expectations forward for everyone. Yeah for now NWA would have some more senior guys on top since the senior DAL took and early out but for only around 5 yrs then they will have to retire which will give the DAL guys all thier seniority right back and at the same time all the DAL guys move up quicker since they benefit from NWA retirements but the NWA guys will be able to fly larger equipment to off set some seniority and all will be happy. This way both sides give and gain. It would be nice to have your cake and eat it too, but in the long run the career expectations will be brighter for everyone invloved.

It may work out that way for part of the list--notably the widebody captains, but then it gets fuzzier. I imagine that sticking all of the Delta new-hires to the bottom would be unacceptable to the palette of an arbitrator.

 

[Superpilot92]

It may work out that way for part of the list--notably the widebody captains, but then it gets fuzzier. I imagine that sticking all of the Delta new-hires to the bottom would be unacceptable to the palette of an arbitrator.

He never said stick all DAL newhires to the bottom. Are you arguing with yourself again?

 

[MJ42]

He never said stick all DAL newhires to the bottom. Are you arguing with yourself again?

Seems so, he wants to argue with everyone except Fins. Better start agreeing with him, maybe then he'll shut up.

 

[800Dog]

Sorry I bruised you fragile ego, but you are the dumb***. The 50s were the catalysts. Every one since then is the same rating. There were a bunch on the property before I got here.

It was the camel's nose. I do not agree with ever increasing the level of them, but am one vote. RJ drivers are also in our union. What say you of that, genius?

What does scope have to do with this thread anyway, and did you vote yes to any of C2K, LOA49, LOA 51?

1 person is but 1 vote.

And this is just one of many idiots I have had to deal with since being hired by the big D! Voted no for everything thus far. That includes LOA19. You will never understand what a UNION is all about. Try Websters or google. I welcome the NWA folks as they will finally bring some backbone to DALPA. Cheers!!

 

[PuffDriver]

He never said stick all DAL newhires to the bottom. Are you arguing with yourself again?

[/QUOTE]Seems so, he wants to argue with everyone except Fins. Better start agreeing with him, maybe then he'll shutting up.[/QUOTE]

Ok, here is an excerpt:

I see it coming down to DOH with at least a 5 yr fence so then the age 65 retirements starts kicking in to move career expectations forward for everyone.


I know that this takes a little bit of thinking, and thus is be shunned on FI. Considering who has been doing the hiring Delta, and that their DOH will be the lowest, it only stands to reason that line holding, 1 year f/os on the ER at Delta would be tacked on to the bottom of such a list suggested by the gentleman. I merely disagreed that the bottom of the list would include solely Delta pilots, or even mostly Delta pilots in the eyes of an arbitrator.

You know, because that is what a DOH list would do, if in fact it would go down as ThisishteDream surmised. Get it now? Try reading comprehension 101.

BTW, don't blame fins because he is right about pretty much everything regarding this merger. Here is another missspelling mistake to keep you guys occupied.

 

[Superpilot92]

Seems so, he wants to argue with everyone except Fins. Better start agreeing with him, maybe then he'll shutting up.

Ok, here is an excerpt:

I see it coming down to DOH with at least a 5 yr fence so then the age 65 retirements starts kicking in to move career expectations forward for everyone.


I know that this takes a little bit of thinking, and thus is be shunned on FI. Considering who has been doing the hiring Delta, and that their DOH will be the lowest, it only stands to reason that line holding, 1 year f/os on the ER at Delta would be tacked on to the bottom of such a list suggested by the gentleman. I merely disagreed that the bottom of the list would include solely Delta pilots, or even mostly Delta pilots in the eyes of an arbitrator.

You know, because that is what a DOH list would do, if in fact it would go down as ThisishteDream surmised. Get it now? Try reading comprehension 101.

BTW, don't blame fins because he is right about pretty much everything regarding this merger. Here is another missspelling mistake to keep you guys occupied.

I guess you just seem to leave out little details like the 300ish newhires at NWA? Get it now? Reading comprehension lesson 1 - this whole merger does NOT revolve around YOU. BTW, Good luck with the whole self argument stage you are going through.

 

[MJ42]

I guess you just seem to leave out little details like the 300ish newhires at NWA? Get it now? Reading comprehension lesson 1 - this whole merger does NOT revolve around YOU. BTW, Good luck with the whole self argument stage you are going through.

Looks like he's losing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0hpTUlfp88&feature=related

 

[Superpilot92]

Looks like he's losing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0hpTUlfp88&feature=related

Now thats funny!! I didnt realize Puffdriver was also a youtube star!! Congrats Puffy!

 

[DBCOOPER]

So let me get this straight PuffDaddy...an arbitrator is going to factor in the destinations that a certain fleet serves? This will cause him to ignore the fact that your 767 pays 10% more than our 757? You know, the same payrate difference that exists between every DAL/NWA aircraft comparison? Go ahead, tell me again how your 757 pays widebody rates (instead of the fact that it is the other was around as evidenced by the payrate comparisons).

Wrong. I'm in my 2nd yr on the 737 and i make 20% more than a 2nd yr. 320 guy. What other b.s. are you throwing out as facts? Face it guys, NWA has always been everyone's last choice of the majors. Crappy airplanes, crappy bases, people that didn't get hired at the other majors ended up there. Who the heck wants to fly a DC9 out of DTW?? If we do merge, it won't be hard to figure out who came from where when we're all in one uniform, y'all look like a bunch of slobs. Ok, bring it. Everyone knows this, someone had to say it.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Our 767/757 pays 2 bucks more an hour then the NWA A330. The data is readily available on Airlinepilotcentral. I'm not sure where DTW320 is getting his numbers, but our "narrowbody" pays more than an airplane that is the size(actually a bit larger) of our 767-400. The discrepancy grows by 10 dollars an hour further if you compre the 767-400 to the A330, which is more comparable on seating, but still lighter than the 330.

 

[ThisistheDream]

DOH all the way down to the new hires would put the last DAL class on MAY 5th at the bottom of the list. NWA last class was April 7th. So we are talking a very few DAL guys at the bottom of the list, but they where the last ones hired even after the merger proposal was announced. But if you look at how many DAL guys have been hired SINCE 9/11 when DAL and NWA started to hire after 6 plus years, there are many many more DAL New hires and they would benefit greatly over post 9/11 NWA new hires with DOH. I believe SINCE 9/11 NWA has hired around 250?? DAL around 500??? SO there would be alot more NWA so called post 9/11 new hires in the bottom 1000 to 750 or so pilots by a combined DOH SLI.

 

[FBN0223]

Wrong. I'm in my 2nd yr on the 737 and i make 20% more than a 2nd yr. 320 guy. What other b.s. are you throwing out as facts? Face it guys, NWA has always been everyone's last choice of the majors. Crappy airplanes, crappy bases, people that didn't get hired at the other majors ended up there. Who the heck wants to fly a DC9 out of DTW?? If we do merge, it won't be hard to figure out who came from where when we're all in one uniform, y'all look like a bunch of slobs. Ok, bring it. Everyone knows this, someone had to say it.

We'll be the guys in leather coats, no hats, untucked shirts with a slight gray tint and beaucoup stickers of our flight bags. We'll be certain to include a big DELTA sticker so that everyone will know our place of employment. Ya'll are jes goin' ta luv us.

 

[Fly4hire]

Face it guys, NWA has always been everyone's last choice of the majors. Crappy airplanes, crappy bases, people that didn't get hired at the other majors ended up there. Who the heck wants to fly a DC9 out of DTW?? If we do merge, it won't be hard to figure out who came from where when we're all in one uniform, y'all look like a bunch of slobs. Ok, bring it. Everyone knows this, someone had to say it.

Typical DAL hubris.

Many of us pick our airlines based on where we grew up, where we live, family ties, etc.

Back when I was hired NWA owned (and still does) the orient and having lived there while in the Mil flying back there was a huge draw. Their biggest base was 40 miles from where I grew up and my aging parents still lived. The abilty to live near them and spend more time with and help them as they slowed down and declined was far more important than the airline de'jour I worked for.

I had a DAL interview the day after my NWA interview, and after I was offered the position at NWA (they told you right after the interview back then) I called DAL and told them I would not be attending the interview, they asked why, and I told them I had a better offer.

Contrary to what they feed you there, the world is not made up of DAL pilots and those that wanted to be but weren't good enough. You can keep congratulating yourself on how good you are, many others think the only people who like DAL pilots are little kids and other DAL pilots......

 

[Speedbird34]

Typical DAL hubris.

Many of us pick our airlines based on where we grew up, where we live, family ties, etc.

Back when I was hired NWA owned (and still does) the orient and having lived there while in the Mil flying back there was a huge draw. Their biggest base was 40 miles from where I grew up and my aging parents still lived. The abilty to live near them and spend more time with and help them as they slowed down and declined was far more important than the airline de'jour I worked for.

I had a DAL interview the day after my NWA interview, and after I was offered the position at NWA (they told you right after the interview back then) I called DAL and told them I would not be attending the interview, they asked why, and I told them I had a better offer.

Contrary to what they feed you there, the world is not made up of DAL pilots and those that wanted to be but weren't good enough. You can keep congratulating yourself on how good you are, many others think the only people who like DAL pilots are little kids and other DAL pilots......

Maybe once upon a time many many long years ago Northwest Airlines was a place worth working at.
But the Northwest pilots slowly destroyed the place by showing poor leadership, never supporting their labor groups and constantly bending over to management and the oler guys, At northwest seniority rules and junior guys are trash. The place presently reeks of unhappiness and discontent and is using delta to clean up all its dirt.
My prayer is that it does not end up destroying Delta Air lines.
The guys are right Northwest has never being on the list of most regional pilots. Just a few minneapolis dwellers.
The culture sucks!!
Very poor pilot leadership. I hope Delta can improve your pilot groups attitude.

 

[PuffDriver]

And this is just one of many idiots I have had to deal with since being hired by the big D! Voted no for everything thus far. That includes LOA19. You will never understand what a UNION is all about. Try Websters or google. I welcome the NWA folks as they will finally bring some backbone to DALPA. Cheers!!

You are wrong on that one. Been in the fight since I hit a year. If you have voted no on everything, then that includes COBRA for the furloughees and the extension of COBRA for the furloughees. In that case, I think that your understanding of UNION is a bit skewed. I'll take my version of union any day. BTW, since so many of us are idiots, why don't you quit. Why work with idiots. Are you one of those guys that actually thinks we hire the creme of the crop? You think we're the best of the best? I laugh in your general direction. We are just like every other airline. The difference between you and me is that I leave it it here, and apparently you harbor ill will all the way to work. When this merger is over, I will welcome the NWA guys and by the beer for my NWA f/os or swing gear for the captains. However the chips fall, it's over when the list hits the press. You'll still be in your private hell. Go ahead, try and convince me otherwise. The "no, no matter what" guys are a huge problem at this airline.

I welcome the NWA folks as well, I am just not going to give them my seniority. I'll give them yours since you are so eager to give it away.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

But the Northwest pilots slowly distroyed... My prayer is that it does not end up distroying Delta Air lines.
I hope Delta can improve your pilot groups attitude.

Cool, maybe you can improve NWA pilot attitudes and the NWA pilots can really teach you how to spell the word "destroy".

 

[PuffDriver]

DOH all the way down to the new hires would put the last DAL class on MAY 5th at the bottom of the list. NWA last class was April 7th. So we are talking a very few DAL guys at the bottom of the list, but they where the last ones hired even after the merger proposal was announced. But if you look at how many DAL guys have been hired SINCE 9/11 when DAL and NWA started to hire after 6 plus years, there are many many more DAL New hires and they would benefit greatly over post 9/11 NWA new hires with DOH. I believe SINCE 9/11 NWA has hired around 250?? DAL around 500??? SO there would be alot more NWA so called post 9/11 new hires in the bottom 1000 to 750 or so pilots by a combined DOH SLI.

Delta has hired over 700 pilots since 911, and the plan is to hire again in the fall prior to the date of merger. The makes the bottom of the list predominately Delta. I don't think that will go over so well. My guess is that we will push relative, your guys will push something in the DOH neighborhood, and the arbitrator will do whatever.

 

[Speedbird34]

Cool, maybe you can improve NWA pilot attitudes and the NWA pilots can really teach you how to spell the word "destroy".

First productive post I have seen from a Northwest pilot recently, need to use spell checker more or get a smart dude like you as my editor!

I fixed the error good puppy.

Thanks.

 

[PuffDriver]

He never said stick all DAL newhires to the bottom. Are you arguing with yourself again?

[/QUOTE]Looks like he's losing[/QUOTE]


Over 2:1 Sorry, guys. I know that your brains aren't exactly engaged these days, but having 700 of the bottom 1000 guys from Delta--aka reserve--when a fair amount of them are international line holding f/os is not acceptable to them or an arbitrator.

But go ahead and hold your little shower spit swap in gang up land. It was easy out debating you 1:1, and it will be no less easy 1 v 2

 

[jetjockey#1]

Could somebody from NWA post DOH for a 95% guy. Here at DAL is Jul 07 holding a line on the 767-300ER flying Europe and some South America.

 

[ThisistheDream]

DAL starting hiring after 9/11 before NWA did at a higher per month class size. So that would put alot of DAL new hires ahead of NWA new hires going by DOH. The 1st NWA new hire class after 9/11 was in oct of 2007. I think DAL was hiring alot in 2007 so you would have at alot of the 700 DAL newhires ahead of any NWA new hire. SO going by DOH would put 200-300 DAL new hire pilots ahead of any NWA new hire. Overall DAL has hired more so there would be more DAL junior pilots than NWA, but by DOH the DAL pilots overall ratio of seniority would be higher then the NWA new hires since a good portion of the DAL new hires where hired PRIOR to the NWA new hires. NWA didnt hire until october 2007. I think pilots in NWA 1st class in OCT can hold, 757, A320 Reserve or DC9 and 747 FE block.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

First productive post I have seen from a Northwest pilot recently, need to use spell checker more or get a smart dude like you as my editor!

I fixed the error good puppy.

Thanks.

Well at least you got a sense of humor.

 

[PuffDriver]

DAL starting hiring after 9/11 before NWA did at a higher per month class size. So that would put alot of DAL new hires ahead of NWA new hires going by DOH. The 1st NWA new hire class after 9/11 was in oct of 2007. I think DAL was hiring alot in 2007 so you would have at alot of the 700 DAL newhires ahead of any NWA new hire. SO going by DOH would put 200-300 DAL new hire pilots ahead of any NWA new hire. Overall DAL has hired more so there would be more DAL junior pilots than NWA, but by DOH the DAL pilots overall ratio of seniority would be higher then the NWA new hires since a good portion of the DAL new hires where hired PRIOR to the NWA new hires.

I understand what you are saying, and I see the logic, but look at it from a different perspective of a 13000 pilot airline. To take a pre-merger Delta pilot who flies international as a line holder, and put him/her back on reserve is going to be a tough call for an arbitrator to make. That's all I am saying. In addition, our 90/91 hires are ER captains--as well as a couple of 96 hires. Our bottom line holding 88 captains are in the mid '98 hire range. Throw in DOH and a wrench gets thrown in there as well.

Of course, and arbitrator may do just that-DOH, but I doubt it.

 

[MJ42]

I understand what you are saying, and I see the logic, but look at it from a different perspective of a 13000 pilot airline. To take a pre-merger Delta pilot who flies international as a line holder, and put him/her back on reserve is going to be a tough call for an arbitrator to make. That's all I am saying. In addition, our 90/91 hires are ER captains--as well as a couple of 96 hires. Our bottom line holding 88 captains are in the mid '98 hire range. Throw in DOH and a wrench gets thrown in there as well.

Of course, and arbitrator may do just that-DOH, but I doubt it.

You make it sound as if all new hires are walking out of training into being a line holder. You're saying that the staffing is that short? Where are the reserves at?

Yes, they should be on reserve, they(as well as I) knew what we were getting into....especially the last couple of DAL classes.

As proven many times before, you're easily debatable. No help needed, you do a fine job wondering all over the map on this subject. Just depends what thread I'm reading and I can find several of your conflicting posts.

I want a FAIR SLI for all NWA and DAL pilots.

 

[PuffDriver]

You make it sound as if all new hires are walking out of training into being a line holder. You're saying that the staffing is that short? Where are the reserves at?

Yes, they should be on reserve, they(as well as I) knew what we were getting into....especially the last couple of DAL classes.

As proven many times before, you're easily debatable. No help needed, you do a fine job wondering all over the map on this subject. Just depends what thread I'm reading and I can find several of your conflicting posts.

I want a FAIR SLI for all NWA and DAL pilots.

Not at all, yes staffing is lean. Yes, some are walking right into line holding right out of training--most notably 88 NYC guys. There are many line holding f/os internationally that have been here a year or less, again predominately in NYC and ATL. Apparently I am lying in this regard as well--only I'm not.

As far as the "conflicting post" thing, and "wandering all over the map", and "As proven many times before, you're easily debatable", all are blanket statements with no real proof--just your assertion so they MUST be true. Alas, debate takes proof--and you have none. Here is yet another post where you get spanked.

Indeed, they knew what they were getting into--a fast paced growth period where they would be line holders right away.

You just got spanked again BTW. Must be my "wandering" and "conflicting" again. I just wish that those voices in my head would stop.:laugh:

 

[MJ42]

Not at all, yes staffing is lean. Yes, some are walking right into line holding right out of training--most notably 88 NYC guys. There are many line holding f/os internationally that have been here a year or less, again predominately in NYC and ATL. Apparently I am lying in this regard as well--only I'm not. And none of us want to take that away from them! As Thisisthedream said, a majority of those guys would be senior to NWA new hires going by DOH for the newbes.

As far as the "conflicting post" thing, and "wandering all over the map", and "As proven many times before, you're easily debatable", all are blanket statements with no real proof--just your assertion so they MUST be true. Alas, debate takes proof--and you have none. Here is yet another post where you get spanked. If I had more time today I could find many of your posts that are all over the map on SLI.

Indeed, they knew what they were getting into--a fast paced growth period where they would be line holders right away.Not the last several classes. Since talks really started to heat up in January there has been a lot of speculation and uncertainty. New hires just starting class could not have expected fast pace growth, no one new (or currently knows) what would/will happen.

You just got spanked again BTW. Must be my "wandering" and "conflicting" again. I just wish that those voices in my head would stop.:laugh:

"
Spanked? By whom? You? Is that what those "voices" are telling you?:nuts: At least you admit to having a mental disorder, that's the first step in getting help...good luck.

 

[Fly4hire]

Maybe once upon a time many many long years ago Northwest Airlines was a place worth working at.
But the Northwest pilots slowly destroyed the place by showing poor leadership, never supporting their labor groups and constantly bending over to management and the oler guys, At northwest seniority rules and junior guys are trash. My prayer is that it does not end up destroying Delta Air lines.
The culture sucks!!
Very poor pilot leadership. I hope Delta can improve your pilot groups attitude.

Another specious "talking point" by DALPA to villainize the enemy so it's easier to justify the seniority atrocities proposed.

FWIW, NWA has been an excellent place to work, I've been treated fairly and professionally, and the people are by and large very pleasant to work with.

The biggest hurdle has been our management, which is now your management. I had a pleasant and civil conversation over beers with a DAL pilot on a layover a few weeks back over a number of issues, including our culture. When I commented that you guys now have RA who spent 14yrs at NWA, and was a former Lorenzo lawyer, the response was "he's on board now to the DAL way of doing things" However this things ends up, please don't be so naive as to believe that.

Be very, very careful with RA - he is capable of patting you on the back with a smile while he slices your nuts off with the other (if he hasn't already and you just don't know they are missing yet)

 

[Speedbird34]

Another specious "talking point" by DALPA to villainize the enemy so it's easier to justify the seniority atrocities proposed.

FWIW, NWA has been an excellent place to work, I've been treated fairly and professionally, and the people are by and large very pleasant to work with.

The biggest hurdle has been our management, which is now your management. I had a pleasant and civil conversation over beers with a DAL pilot on a layover a few weeks back over a number of issues, including our culture. When I commented that you guys now have RA who spent 14yrs at NWA, and was a former Lorenzo lawyer, the response was "he's on board now to the DAL way of doing things" However this things ends up, please don't be so naive as to believe that.

Be very, very careful with RA - he is capable of patting you on the back with a smile while he slices your nuts off with the other (if he hasn't already and you just don't know they are missing yet)

Point taken maybe you are more civil than the vibe I get. Hopefully we all surprise each other. When I see a Northwest pilot I just want to get away right now. i also have to check the resentment. It is very easy to make enemies when you can not tell who is pointing a gun at you. You just may feel it is easier to kill anything that moves near your gunsights.
It is a wise saying" check your target"

 

[PuffDriver]

And none of us want to take that away from them! As Thisisthedream said, a majority of those guys would be senior to NWA new hires going by DOH for the newbies.

..and as I told him, and you, you need to think of the airline as a whole. 13000 pilots leaves our most senior new-hires in the reserve range. That is unacceptable from where they are now, and moves your reserve guys on top of them to come in and take those international lines away. What part of that is unclear. That is unacceptable. You also fail to address our line holding captains, and our widebody captains. BUT, at least you reinforce the rumor that you guys are pushing for DOH. I'll file that little tidbit for future reference. DOH is not fair to the Delta pilots, it is not part of merger policy.


Not the last several classes. Since talks really started to heat up in January there has been a lot of speculation and uncertainty. New hires just starting class could not have expected fast pace growth, no one new (or currently knows) what would/will happen.

..and yet they have. I fly with them all the time. It's not about what might happen, it is what IS happening on the day of closure.


Spanked? By whom? You? Is that what those "voices" are telling you? At least you admit to having a mental disorder, that's the first step in getting help...good luck.


Yup, spanked. You are not adding to the discussion, merely a speed bump--annoying to everyone including your own. The other gentleman and I seem pretty cordial with one another. The problem is you. It's entertaining for me though imp:

 

[ThisistheDream]

I see an arbitrator going by a DOH type basis with little corrections to offset obvious unfair SLI areas and with fences for a few years until retirements start to kick in. What is the ALPA bylaw for mergers with two ALPA carriers?? This whole merger right now is looked at as a wrench for the pilots because prior to any merger we all had a picture and vision of our future, what number we would retire at, how long to become a captain etc...But in life as we all know nothing is ever guarenteed and things can and will always be changing but what we dont seem to realize that this merger is a change for the better long term!!! We all will have to give some to gain alot. And in another 20 years dont be surprised if we go thru this all over agian when there is another merger.