DALLAPA this is fair ?

[FDJ2]

THIS is part of the disconnect in determining the WB factor between the two carriers - NWA's International flying is a premium pay difference (on our relative scales) making it a more senior position.

I wouldn't be bragging too much about that "premium" pay. A 7 year NWA A330 F/O makes as much as a DAL 7 year 737 F/O.

On a related note, I hear the CRJ700 is considered premium flying at many regionals too.

At the end of the day it's how much you make that matters.

Contractual values play a part in SLIs. If you merged with Kalitta, would you consider their 747s "premium" flying and slot them in with your 747s?

 

[PuffDriver]

I wouldn't be bragging too much about that "premium" pay. A 7 year NWA A330 F/O makes as much as a DAL 7 year 737 F/O.

On a related note, I hear the CRJ700 is considered premium flying at many regionals too.

At the end of the day it's how much you make that matters.

Contractual values play a part in SLIs. If you merged with Kalitta, would you consider their 747s "premium" flying and slot them in with your 747s?

This "premium" flying thing is a complete joke. Over the pond is over the pond. Ours pays more, end of story. The fact that NWA pay will be brought up DRAMATICALLY throughout the fleet WILL be a factor in arbitration. You guys are throwing out red herrings. It's like us saying that Fargo doesn't count because it is not premium domestic flying.

You guys can't do any better that this? I hope your merger committee members in arbitration do.

 

[General Lee]

Not true,

NWA new hires mostly go to the DC-9. Some S/O positions on the 747-200F in ANK were awarded to new hires, but usually the ANK S/O are ropes.

The Ropes will be 747 Captains soon. But wait, I thought you said over 100 of your age 60 guys just retired? Why would a rope still be there? If he does stay, he will be a Captain on something soon, thanks to those other 100 leaving....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[123]

Why would a rope still be there?

Bye Bye--General Lee

4 year seat lock.....

 

[Superpilot92]

your new hires go to the dc-9or so 747 ours go to the 76er, enough said

Gee wonder why? I wouldn't want to go to JFK either. nuff said

 

[GogglesPisano]

NYC ER is both very junior and very senior. Very commutable trips and the best flying at Delta.

 

[PuffDriver]

NYC ER is both very junior and very senior. Very commutable trips and the best flying at Delta.

Not to mention that many of them bid ATL 7ER on the very first bid that comes out after they were hired. Atlanta 7er lineholding f/o is less than a year

 

[Speedbird34]

Because 76ER is considered undesirable duty due to it only paying a small difference in pay over domestic flying that keeps you within 3 time zones of home. (Probably 0 on probation except for the per diem). Been their done that, have the passport stamps - I like the occasional EU trip, but not as my bread and butter. I'll take NB Captain over WB F/O any day.

If I want to go see EU or Asia I'll go on vacation, not a sleep deprived 24hr lay over.

Of course all the DAL newbies coming from their CRJ or EMB think they are s**t hot international pilots, while those who have been around a while bid domestic which goes senior. I bet many bid back domestic in short order.

THIS is part of the disconnect in determining the WB factor between the two carriers - NWA's International flying is a premium pay difference (on our relative scales) making it a more senior position.

I guarantee you that if the pay scales were within a few dollars the 757 at NWA with domestic, Hawaii, AK, international, and Asia intra-port would be the senior position - sort of like the DAL 76 Intl/domestic.

DALPA's disingenuous attempt to devalue that flying by putting our 330 and 744 in LOA 19 at less than the 777 and 767ER so they can say ours is not premium WB is transparent.

The real question is how to realistically meld and integrate the two different types of WB flying to preserve the truly premium fly for both sides while not devaluing it or other categories simply for the exercise of saying NW brings less to the table.

You sound really strange at times. Most new hires can hold 767/757 International/ domestic or what ever you call it. We can also hold almost any base we want. Life is great here and the layovers are awesome. We rest on the airplane and have great layovers with enough rest. One of the best jobs at Delta is the 767ER.
I have come across a lot of decent Northwest pilots and I am shocked at times listening to your comments.
I believe northwest pilots are their own worst enemies and I fully support my MEC and our excellent chairman Lee.
for your information guys. he was voted in unopposed. he is a very fair person and has your interest at heart.
I hope you do not think I am arrogant but you should be happy that you are becoming a Delta pilot. We have a great thing going here.
We are being forced to share it with you by the hedge fund guys and your management. enjoy the ride and stop the constant drone of misery. I would love a huge pay raise in return for a little loss of seniority. It all comes down to better work rules and pay in the end dude. Lighten up we are not going to let you rape us at Delta. we are not stupid guys here. Delta hires some of the best and luckiest pilots in the world. do not try our luck it may ruin your life.

 

[Superpilot92]

You sound really strange at times. Most new hires can hold 767/757 International/ domestic or what ever you call it. We can also hold almost any base we want. Life is great here and the layovers are awesome. We rest on the airplane and have great layovers with enough rest. One of the best jobs at Delta is the 767ER.
I have come across a lot of decent Northwest pilots and I am shocked at times listening to your comments.
I believe northwest pilots are their own worst enemies and I fully support my MEC and our excellent chairman Lee.
for your information guys. he was voted in unopposed. he is a very fair person and has your interest at heart.
I hope you dont think i am arrogant but you should be happy that you are becoming a Delta pilot. We have a great thing going here. Yeah you're right you appear to be arrogant.
We are being forced to share it with you by the hedge fund guys and your management. enjoy the ride and stop the constant drone of misery. I would love a huge pay raise in return for a little loss of seniority.glad you dont mind because you just might get what you ask for It all comes down to better work rules and pay in the end dude. Lighten up we are not going to let you rape us at Delta. we are not stupid guys here. Delta hires some of the best and luckiest pilots in the world. do not try our luck it may ruin your life.

WOW uke:

I guess you feel that we should bow down because we get the "honor" of being a DAL pilot. I guess you feel that we dont have a "good" thing going for us? Your High horse stance is a huge part of the problem we all face right now.

 

[DTW320]

WOW is right Superpilot....

I would love a huge pay raise in return for a little loss of seniority.

Wow is right.....I would love to sell my seniority for a some $. Delta is such a great company that they would NEVER try to take any of that money away. And if they "had" to, I'm sure they would give me my sacrificed seniority back to make up for it right?

I hope you do not think I am arrogant but you should be happy that you are becoming a Delta pilot. We have a great thing going here.

And you have it in writing that it will always be so, even with $150+ oil right? Post that contract language for that and, after consulting with my lawyer, I'll sign up for the seniority for $ swap-meet.

Wow.....Just.....Wow.

 

[nwaredtail]

.

Wow is right.....I would love to sell my seniority for a some $.

OK, tell you what. I will give you my equity stake for DOH. How that be?

 

[Noserider76]

WOW is right Superpilot....


Wow is right.....

Wow.....Just.....Wow.

Did you give your password to Swanker?

 

[PlaneDrvr]

.




OK, tell you what. I will give you my equity stake for DOH. How that be?

Well, don't work for NW or DL, so definitely don't have a dog in this fight. That said, do you realize it seems things were a lot easier before 1991 when alpa did away with 'DOH.' Sure, as always, there were guys that were pi$$ off afterward, as in any merger integration; however, at least everyone 'knew' how things were going to shake out with the list, as there is NO arguement with 'date of hire.' Then the groups can argue about the the C&S (conditions and restrictions) and 'fences' which were design to 'protect' Everyone's 'normal/expected career progression' (pre-merger) prior to the merger, and such things as 'fleets types, retirements, etc' would be taken into account.

Since DOH was done away with in alpa, look at what we are left with; US/AWA, and now this NW/DL probably going down the same path??

But, then again, it was mostly thanks to DL pilots that DOH went away; otherwise, there would have been no way they could have put the PanAM pilots down the list. Then again, also remember if it wasn't for the North Atl routes that DL got from PanAm, they probably would have never made it out of BK.

Just some thoughts, for what's it worth. Now back to your normal NW/DL rant.

PD

P.S. just another thought, wonder why 'pilots' are the only group of (union) workers out there who don't use 'DOH' and also we are the only ones who have these problems????

 

[PuffDriver]

[/QUOTE]P.S. just another thought, wonder why 'pilots' are the only group of (union) workers out there who don't use 'DOH' and also we are the only ones who have these problems????[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more with your post, but we are where we are. Come of us came in after the fact.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Oil up again today. Me thinks Loa19 will never see the light of day. Much better chance of paycuts and layoffs. My guess is when they are thru with this it will be 9000ish pilot airline or less with a contract that will make the ch11 contracts look good. This is why seniority is so important. I do think we dal/nwa will be a survivor though and that is why BOTH need to negotiate and both bend a little so no one gets a windfall. Or is it a winfall? There is going to be 1000s of layoffs but we will survive. As we all have seen pay and benes come and go but seniority is all you have in this industry. And I am not advocating doh just fair. Lets hope some of these smart guys we both have can work it out.

 

[General Lee]

4 year seat lock.....

So, if they are 60 now, they could check out as Captain again in their last year? What if you (or we) park the 742s because oil is $200 a barrel? Would they be furloughed? I doubt that, they would be displaced from the 742FE to the left seat of the A330 probably. They aren't going away.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Oil up again today. Me thinks Loa19 will never see the light of day. Much better chance of paycuts and layoffs. My guess is when they are thru with this it will be 9000ish pilot airline or less with a contract that will make the ch11 contracts look good. This is why seniority is so important. I do think we dal/nwa will be a survivor though and that is why BOTH need to negotiate and both bend a little so no one gets a windfall. Or is it a winfall? There is going to be 1000s of layoffs but we will survive. As we all have seen pay and benes come and go but seniority is all you have in this industry. And I am not advocating doh just fair. Lets hope some of these smart guys we both have can work it out.

Paycuts? In BK again? Otherwise there won't be any. Also layoffs. Well, all but 700 of the DL pilots still have a no furlough clause that includes price of fuel and the economy as reasons you cannot furlough. They could try force Manure, but would probably lose in court afterwards. So, they would be furloughing more on the side that doesn't have a no furlough clause, and a side that has gas guzzlers. I'd say your guys better "get er done...."

Also, if oil does go a lot higher, I would think a few more airlines will unfortunately be ceasing operations, and that will help the legacies with enough cash on hand to get through this. A few LCCs probably won't make it, and even though Southwest is pouncing on DEN and could try to expand a bit more, they won't be everywhere. They may try, but they won't be able to.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Schwanker]

So, if they are 60 now, they could check out as Captain again in their last year? What if you (or we) park the 742s because oil is $200 a barrel? Would they be furloughed? I doubt that, they would be displaced from the 742FE to the left seat of the A330 probably. They aren't going away.


Bye Bye--General Lee

GL,
Most these ropes were hired very late in their careers and didn't have the opportunity to build up a substantial B plan. They don't have the seniority to hold 330 CA. Just some info why most of them are even still around.

We have not seen a drop in retirements until there was wind of the merger. Most who are staying are hoping to enjoy part of the equity stake which may be distributed. I believe our June pref-ups show over 20 retiring. Instead of losing the 25-40/month we were losing before the merger rumor started to solidify, we're now in the low 20s. No guarantee, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me to see the difference depart once the equity is decided/dispursed. Who knows, some may stick around due to the improved pay rates and DC funding. I'm guessing this number will be low.

Schwanker

 

[jetflier]

The Ropes will be 747 Captains soon. But wait, I thought you said over 100 of your age 60 guys just retired? Why would a rope still be there? If he does stay, he will be a Captain on something soon, thanks to those other 100 leaving....

Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

There you go again, grasping at straws. There are only 14 freighters 747-200 with the S/O position. So, even if half of the S/O positions were ropes returning to a Capt position, you'd never feel it, and you know that !

Cmon' get real !

 

[~~~^~~~]

Yeah, who would ever notice 100 ROPES coming in above the entire airline, probably bidding "your" equipment. It's just seniority numbers. No big deal. After all they would be absorbed by this year and next year's 777 deliveries. Jetflyer will not notice a thing because he'll be busy at the schoolhouse upgrading equipment also.

Me thinks General might just notice, since he is on the cusp of upgrading himself.

 

[jetflier]

You sound really strange at times. Most new hires can hold 767/757 International/ domestic or what ever you call it. We can also hold almost any base we want. Life is great here and the layovers are awesome. We rest on the airplane and have great layovers with enough rest. One of the best jobs at Delta is the 767ER.
I have come across a lot of decent Northwest pilots and I am shocked at times listening to your comments.
I believe northwest pilots are their own worst enemies and I fully support my MEC and our excellent chairman Lee.
for your information guys. he was voted in unopposed. he is a very fair person and has your interest at heart.
I hope you do not think I am arrogant but you should be happy that you are becoming a Delta pilot. We have a great thing going here.
We are being forced to share it with you by the hedge fund guys and your management. enjoy the ride and stop the constant drone of misery. I would love a huge pay raise in return for a little loss of seniority. It all comes down to better work rules and pay in the end dude. Lighten up we are not going to let you rape us at Delta. we are not stupid guys here. Delta hires some of the best and luckiest pilots in the world. do not try our luck it may ruin your life.

You're rhetoric is why ALPA lost its power over the previous decades. The comments you make should appear on a poster showing why airline pilot unity has all but disappeared.

Looking at your previous experience I'd bet that you went from one regional job right to DAL.
You have been fortunate. But don't let that cloud your judgement.

Read ALPA's "Flying the Line"....(that's why its there...)

 

[jetflier]

Paycuts? In BK again? Otherwise there won't be any. Also layoffs. Well, all but 700 of the DL pilots still have a no furlough clause that includes price of fuel and the economy as reasons you cannot furlough. They could try force Manure, but would probably lose in court afterwards. So, they would be furloughing more on the side that doesn't have a no furlough clause, and a side that has gas guzzlers. I'd say your guys better "get er done...."

Also, if oil does go a lot higher, I would think a few more airlines will unfortunately be ceasing operations, and that will help the legacies with enough cash on hand to get through this. A few LCCs probably won't make it, and even though Southwest is pouncing on DEN and could try to expand a bit more, they won't be everywhere. They may try, but they won't be able to.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

Check the current financials for NWA and DAL. NWA is in much better financial shape to weather the $120 per barrel oil this summer.

Other than SWA, according to analysts NWA is still holding its position as the most financially secure legacy airline.

 

[Speedbird34]

You're rhetoric is why ALPA lost its power over the previous decades. The comments you make should appear on a poster showing why airline pilot unity has all but disappeared.

Looking at your previous experience I'd bet that you went from one regional job right to DAL.
You have been fortunate. But don't let that cloud your judgement.

Read ALPA's "Flying the Line"....(that's why its there...)

Do not assume to lecture me on anything dude, I would give an arm not to fly with people like you. I can tell you right now. If Northwest was the last Airline in the world I would quit flying. I will never fly anything on the Northwest side. my attitude is avoid dealing with the Northwest mentality as much as I can.
I look at this whole merger thing as being driven by hedge funds, Northwest management and northwest pilots who stand to benefit the most and also want to harvest where they have not planted any seeds. What a sad group of leaders who never stand up for anything and show a very low level of intellect bordering on childishness.
Seniority is not for sale bull that keeps being floated around by a bunch of ignorant and slightly retarded pilots sickens me and makes me even more determined to avoid having any thing to do with this group should we merge. Hopefully the retards on flightinfo do not represent the mainstream of Northwest cos if it does my career just got ruined by some really sad cross breeding.
I still hope that this deal gets nix by the DOJ or the price of oil.
Read flying the line. You presume to lecture me on my qualifications or expereince.
what a joke

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Read flying the line. You presume to lecture me on my qualifications or expereince.
what a joke

I highly doubt that your qualifications or experience are anywhere near as impressive as you make them out to be.

I'm curious... what experience do you have that has led to your "obviously well formulated" opinion about Northwest airlines and its pilots? Or are you just running off at the mouth... as usual?

 

[~~~^~~~]

There are many junior Delta pilots who agree with Speedbird on the point that if they are displaced into the NWA system, they will quit if an LOA isn't an option.

This is good news and more good news for junior NWA pilots. First, the Delta pilots like Delta that much (meaning you'll probably like it also) & Second, they will be getting out of your way on the seniority list.

These same junior pilots also fully support the radicals on the NWA MEC and hope that they will be just crazy enough to sideline this merger.

I'm not saying there are not good reasons to apply to NWA. I am saying that I have not been able to think of any. NWA is < contingency plans B, C, or D. So, if you had to move, would you move for a pay cut, or an opportunity to double your pay by getting out of 121 flying?

This is not arrogance. Arrogance would be anyone thinking we'd be missed.

And from "Flying the Line" you become a "Professional Pilot" when your first question is, "how much does the job pay?"

See, we can agree :beer:

 

[Superpilot92]

Do not assume to lecture me on anything dude, I would give an arm not to fly with people like you. I can tell you right now. If Northwest was the last Airline in the world I would quit flying. I will never fly anything on the Northwest side. my attitude is avoid dealing with the Northwest mentality as much as I can.
I look at this whole merger thing as being driven by hedge funds, Northwest management and northwest pilots who stand to benefit the most and also want to harvest where they have not planted any seeds. What a sad group of leaders who never stand up for anything and show a very low level of intellect bordering on childishness.
Seniority is not for sale bull that keeps being floated around by a bunch of ignorant and slightly retarded pilots sickens me and makes me even more determined to avoid having any thing to do with this group should we merge. Hopefully the retards on flightinfo do not represent the mainstream of Northwest cos if it does my career just got ruined by some really sad cross breeding.
I still hope that this deal gets nix by the DOJ or the price of oil.
Read flying the line. You presume to lecture me on my qualifications or expereince.
what a joke

Hey your Koolaid glass is looking low maybe you should get a re-fill :beer:

 

[Superpilot92]

Do not assume to lecture me on anything dude, I would give an arm not to fly with people like you. I can tell you right now. If Northwest was the last Airline in the world I would quit flying. I will never fly anything on the Northwest side. my attitude is avoid dealing with the Northwest mentality as much as I can.
I look at this whole merger thing as being driven by hedge funds, Northwest management and northwest pilots who stand to benefit the most and also want to harvest where they have not planted any seeds. What a sad group of leaders who never stand up for anything and show a very low level of intellect bordering on childishness.
Seniority is not for sale bull that keeps being floated around by a bunch of ignorant and slightly retarded pilots sickens me and makes me even more determined to avoid having any thing to do with this group should we merge. Hopefully the retards on flightinfo do not represent the mainstream of Northwest cos if it does my career just got ruined by some really sad cross breeding.
I still hope that this deal gets nix by the DOJ or the price of oil.
Read flying the line. You presume to lecture me on my qualifications or expereince.
what a joke

Just as I thought!! A quick search shows why you have your anti-nwa attitude. LMAO you are a joke, I guess your time at Pinchanickle rubbed you the wrong way about NWA. Whats the matter, you couldn't get the call?

 

[737 Pylt]

arrogant comments

I highly doubt that your qualifications or experience are anywhere near as impressive as you make them out to be.

I'm curious... what experience do you have that has led to your "obviously well formulated" opinion about Northwest airlines and its pilots? Or are you just running off at the mouth... as usual?

No wonder you guys have 3 separate groups....You can't even get along with each other, what should make anyone think that you could get along with ANYONE!

737

 

[Superpilot92]

Seniority is not for sale bull that keeps being floated around by a bunch of ignorant and slightly retarded pilots sickens me and makes me even more determined to avoid having any thing to do with this group should we merge.

To fully understand Speedbirds integrity everyone should compare his posts in this subject to his quote below. Keep it up Speedbird you're doing a great job discrediting yourself.

maybe you should take some of your own advice. For someone with such strong convictions against discrimination you sure are IGNORANT within this subject.

Hey guys stop bashing foreign accents and rampers! Lack of understanding of people who are slightly diffrent from you is the basis on which racism and oppression is formed.
There is nothing more ugly to me than a Pilot swearing at a black ramper and calling him names because of his Ignorance. You get what you pay for but I do not like anyone feeling comfortable enough to curse at people who are a product of a system that enslaved and retarded their development.
Most RACIST do not even know that they are racist but it shows in their comments and in their actions.
I flew with a lighter skinned brother the other day with a black soul who told me he flew with a white captain and flight stewardess who kept cursing and making humilating remarks about blacks espercially rampers because of his mother being white they assumed he was white and felt comfortable enough to express themselves in this manner. He was disgusted and finally put the captain in check. But I was so turn off by the details he shared with me I had to force myself not to be suspicous of most people who say hello to me.
People human beings have bad in them on all sides we must work hard to be diffrent and understand other races and cultures no matter how frustrating it can get sometimes.
Do not push or encourage racist remarks on a public site like this you offend black people like me.

 

[DTW320]

To fully understand Speedbirds integrity everyone should compare his posts in this subject to his quote below. Keep it up Speedbird you're doing a great job discrediting yourself.

maybe you should take some of your own advice. For someone with such strong convictions against discrimination you sure are IGNORANT within this subject.

Hilarious isn't he? Hopefully him and his ilk will quit as Fins said if they have to fly NWA 320s for example. Sounds like he'd be a lot of fun on a trip.

Hopefully the retards on flightinfo do not represent the mainstream of Northwest cos if it does my career just got ruined by some really sad cross breeding.

Isn't "crossbreeding" more prevalent in Georgia than Minnesota? I wonder if true "retards" use "cos" instead of "because". Just wondering out loud.