DALLAPA this is fair ?

[On Your Six]

I will repost just incase you missed it Those arent my comments those our YOUR companies comments.

Industry Issues ​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]1. I thought Delta’s standalone plan was sound. Why do we "need" to merge now? [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Delta does have a standalone plan that will leave better positioned than most carriers in the industry. However, this plan will most likely be UNABLE to generate the cash flow that Delta will need to repay the secured debt leftover from the post-9/11 borrowing binge, fund their fleet growth for international expansion, and still continue to fund the improvements in pay, working conditions, and retirement that we will expect into the future.This merger will allow Delta to complete their plans for international expansion much sooner than a standalone plan will. This international expansion, along with our Joint Venture with Air France/KLM will give Delta the revenue diversification and the global reach that will ensure our company becomes a dominant player in a rapidly changing industry. [/FONT]​

First of all, it ain't my company. Second of all, most airlines will be in the toilet if $120 oil persists - and that was never truly forecasted (both Delta and NWA will be adversely impacted on their own or combined). Third, banks can always refinance debt if necessary with longer terms. Fourth, it is clearly in Delta's best interest to paint this picture as favorably as possible (using doom-and-gloom embellishments like most people would) in order to get the DOJ/political nod.

What I am saying is that the standalone plan would likely take longer to achieve, but success in Asia would not be entirely dependent upon the union of NWA and Delta. So what happens if the merger eventually gets nixed by the DOJ? Are you saying Delta pilots should be preparing their resumes in that situation because Delta will collapse (due to debt repayment issues)? Highly doubtful.

 

[Superpilot92]

First of all, it ain't my company. Second of all, most airlines will be in the toilet if $120 oil persists - and that was never truly forecasted (both Delta and NWA will be adversely impacted on their own or combined). Third, banks can always refinance debt if necessary with longer terms. Fourth, it is clearly in Delta's best interest to paint this picture as favorably as possible (using doom-and-gloom embellishments like most people would) in order to get the DOJ/political nod.

What I am saying is that the standalone plan would likely take longer to achieve, but success in Asia would not be entirely dependent upon the union of NWA and Delta. So what happens if the merger eventually gets nixed by the DOJ? Are you saying Delta pilots should be preparing their resumes in that situation because Delta will collapse (due to debt repayment issues)? Highly doubtful.

I said nothing of the sort but the growth plans and the debt soon to be up for repayment + fuel cost would be a real problem for DAL without NWA and what we are bringing to the party. that was my point

 

[FDJ2]

I said nothing of the sort but the growth plans and the debt soon to be up for repayment + fuel cost would be a real problem for DAL without NWA and what we are bringing to the party. that was my point

NWA needs this as much, if not more than DAL. It was after all NWA that kept trying to keep this merger alive and agreed to not only allow Delta management to takeover, but also keep the Delta name, Delta head quarters and allow NWA to be acquired using Delta stock.

Do we need to break out all of your management's and your MEC's previous quotes, when they desparately were trying to keep merger talks alive in March?

Look, this merger is in everyone's best interest. Neither company has a business plan that works at $120 oil. So let's quit arguing over who needs who, because it doesn't really matter, and concentrate our efforts on working together to get a mutually beneficial joint contract.

 

[gutshotdraw]

NWA needs this as much, if not more than DAL.

Wrong. NWA's management, especially Frankensteenland (so he can pocket his $20+ million) need this as much, if not more than DAL.

Given the way this proposed merger is shaping up, NWA pilots will be better served if DOJ or DOT nixes the deal, Frankensteenland is tossed out on his ear, and the Board finds a CEO that actually wants to RUN AN AIRLINE and not look for a big money payoff.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Just posting a question (no flamebait intention). So part of the reason why DAL wants to merge with someone is known, how about NWA's? Why does Steenland keeps saying that nwa needs to merge with someone as well? Besides he wants his 20+ mil to retire on.

NWA has one of the better cash position in any legacies right now, why the BOD insists on finding a dance partner now? I haven't heard too much about nwa's standalone plan if this merger doesn't come to fruition.

Good question.

First, let me say that both airlines benefit from this merger.

In NWA's case, they have had good numbers due to the lack of low cost competition. However the trend is not positive. If you compare quarter to quarter numbers revenue is decreasing on decreasing capacity. Delta has not had the past financial performance of NWA, but has increasing revenue on increasing capacity and load factor.

The population centers served by NWA are decreasing in size and the O&D market decreasing correspondingly.

What makes a NWA/DAL combination attractive is the ability to redeploy NWA's large jets where there are hubs which are better able to support them. Delta wants to grow using its' Pacific route authority, but it lacks the airplanes and pilots to achieve the mission in the near term. Getting NWA's aircraft allows them to gain an advantage on competition by being a "first mover."

There will always be the questions regarding whether or not the operational disruption is balanced by the benefits of a merger. Internally, Delta would rather do this alone, but it is not Delta's choice. Delta and NWA have substantial ownership overlap and those short term investors, as well as NWA management, pushed this merger.

Despite the fact it is not the first choice, Delta is optimistic that they can make this work and work well. The network is unmatched. There is also some undercurrent that the US governement will not allow the World's largest airline to fail. (I disagree, and Texas International was the World's largest at one time.)

The challenge will be managing the goliath. I have confidence in Delta and NWA's route and revenue management. I'm concerned about the line employees' attitudes and willingness to pull together. We should not underestimate the role of the NWA pilots in making this profitable.

 

[FDJ2]

Given the way this proposed merger is shaping up, NWA pilots will be better served if DOJ or DOT nixes the deal, Frankensteenland is tossed out on his ear, and the Board finds a CEO that actually wants to RUN AN AIRLINE and not look for a big money payoff.

How is this proposed merger shaping up that has you all worked up? Nothing has changed for the NWA pilots. You still have everything you had a month ago.

Regardless, hoping for a change in leadership is hardly a strategy. If this merger is tossed out, you'll find yourself up for sale again, perhaps in bits and pieces if that's what it takes, before Frankensteenland leaves.

NWA is a great airline, with a great history, but your airlines fate is in the hands of your management. If they want to sell, they'll sell.

JMHO, but the best course forward is to work out a joint contract that makes LOA19 essentially obsolete before it ever becomes effective.

 

[Schwanker]

JMHO, but the best course forward is to work out a joint contract that makes LOA19 essentially obsolete before it ever becomes effective.

You're right. My best guess if there isn't a joint contract in short order (approx end of May), it will be a long hot summer as management will lose control of the NWA operation. Post merger if we're operating without a joint contract and LOA 19 is in effect, the winter could be even hotter (plenty of furniture to burn). I think management probably anticipates this and will come to an agreement--soon. Last summer was a cakewalk compared to the near term potential they're facing. Again, JMHO.

Schwanker

 

[Noserider76]

You're right. My best guess if there isn't a joint contract in short order (approx end of May), it will be a long hot summer as management will lose control of the NWA operation. Post merger if we're operating without a joint contract and LOA 19 is in effect, the winter could be even hotter (plenty of furniture to burn). I think management probably anticipates this and will come to an agreement--soon. Last summer was a cakewalk compared to the near term potential they're facing. Again, JMHO.

Schwanker

You've got to do what you've got to do but I'd be a little careful. Summer of love on steroids, put NW into a world of hurt going into a very weak fall/winter, DOJ kanks the merger or DL pulls the plug like US/UAL. Might work out better for you if cooler heads prevail.

 

[FlyingSig]

I find it interesting that once the facts were posted (that 2887 Delta guys are over age 50) the conversation turned from SLI to whose comany is doing better.

For my own curiosity, how many NWA guys are 50 and older as of today? Because that seems to be the real crux of the argument not to do relative senority...future movement.

Oh, and when I moved up 2500 numbers at DAL, my relative senority didn't move, I was always 600 from the bottom of the list since we shrinking and not expanding at the time of the retirements. (And as a tag on question, if DC9 retirements outpace 787 deliveries 3-1, what kind of real movement would you have on your own?)

 

[DTW320]

I find it interesting that once the facts were posted (that 2887 Delta guys are over age 50) the conversation turned from SLI to whose comany is doing better.

For my own curiosity, how many NWA guys are 50 and older as of today? Because that seems to be the real crux of the argument not to do relative senority...future movement.

Oh, and when I moved up 2500 numbers at DAL, my relative senority didn't move, I was always 600 from the bottom of the list since we shrinking and not expanding at the time of the retirements. (And as a tag on question, if DC9 retirements outpace 787 deliveries 3-1, what kind of real movement would you have on your own?)

As of today, there are 2728 NWA pilots age 50 years or older out of 5156 on the list. This = 53%.

That compares to your 40% of your group that is 50 or older.

As for your tag on ?, the 787 will have much higher staffing than the DC-9. Also, for the 3-1 DC9 retirement vs. 787 deliveries to happen NWA would run into a serious Scope problem since our Scope clause, unlike DAL's, requires the parking of 76 seat RJ's if mainline A/C fall below a certain point, which would certainly happen in your scenario.

 

[gutshotdraw]

How is this proposed merger shaping up that has you all worked up? Nothing has changed for the NWA pilots. You still have everything you had a month ago.

Regardless, hoping for a change in leadership is hardly a strategy. If this merger is tossed out, you'll find yourself up for sale again, perhaps in bits and pieces if that's what it takes, before Frankensteenland leaves.

NWA is a great airline, with a great history, but your airlines fate is in the hands of your management. If they want to sell, they'll sell.

JMHO, but the best course forward is to work out a joint contract that makes LOA19 essentially obsolete before it ever becomes effective.

Thankfully, I don't work for NWA but my decidedly better half put in 11 years on the 7-2 and the Bus before pulling the plug a year ago. We have many friends still flying the line and we want good things for them. IMHO, this merger is NOT a good thing for them as envisioned by the Delta MEC and Lee Moak. If the merger does go through, it would be great if the pilot groups could work out a joint contract that makes LOA 19 obsolete. But "take it or leave it" from DALPA isn't exactly "working out" a joint contract.

 

[ThisistheDream]

What happens when the NEW airline called Delta starts to park all the old MD 88 in the future??? Does that mean if there are going to be furloughs then they can only be pilots from the original Delta airline?? If the merger goes thru, we are all now working for one NEW airline with the name Delta, with different career expectations!!!! If there are going to be furloughs then it should come from the bottom pilots from both airlines.

 

[General Lee]

What happens when the NEW airline called Delta starts to park all the old MD 88 in the future??? Does that mean if there are going to be furloughs then they can only be pilots from the original Delta airline?? If the merger goes thru, we are all now working for one NEW airline with the name Delta, with different career expectations!!!! If there are going to be furloughs then it should come from the bottom pilots from both airlines.

In the future???? I think the DC9s would go a lot sooner, since the MD88s have a lower CASM and are relatively cheap (not owned outright like the DC9s though). Instead of "parking" the MD88s, I think they will be replaced by 737NGs gradually. They are a heck of a lot newer than AA's MD80s. Also, if the NWA guys want some of their 744 Captains to be at the top of the SLI, since they fly a larger plane and are more senior, then some DC9 FOs and 742 FEs should be at the bottom, thanks to the plane size and seat. Fair is fair, and you know there will be some people wanting some 744 Captains at the top.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

As of today, there are 2728 NWA pilots age 50 years or older out of 5156 on the list. This = 53%.

That compares to your 40% of your group that is 50 or older.

As for your tag on ?, the 787 will have much higher staffing than the DC-9. Also, for the 3-1 DC9 retirement vs. 787 deliveries to happen NWA would run into a serious Scope problem since our Scope clause, unlike DAL's, requires the parking of 76 seat RJ's if mainline A/C fall below a certain point, which would certainly happen in your scenario.

Not to mention that 3-1 doesn't take into account the 50 options that Will be exercised on top of the much higher staffing per plane.

 

[eaglefly]

OK, I've thought I've seen it all, but DAL ALPA is trying to push a Pan Am type of SLI on NWA.



NWA and DAL HAD AN AGREEMENT--

DAL wanted "credit" for 1000 people NOT ON THE PROPERTY,
putting OUR 1000 guys at the bottom!

"Yaall godda be kiddin', ..."

Geeeee..........didn't Lee & Co. promised to agree on an arbitrated settlement. Now that the deal is going forward, it kinda looks like they........uh, well...............LIED.

DLAPA Lie ?


Naaaahhhhhhhh.