Seniority Protection at On Demand? DC9?

[Metro752]

Is it common for many current, and qualified pilots to be passed over for a bigger aircraft and pay grade position just because someone in the company, who is very very junior, has all the qualifications, and it is just CHEAPER maybe for the company to SCREW the rest of their qualified line pilots, and award the junior pilot the bid?

Does seniority matter at these companies, or is it just a false sense of job security, or lies in regards to career progression, and advancement into bigger, and better equipment?

Would having a union help these pilots? ALPA, perhaps? Is this the straw that breaks the camels back, will many pilots leave after seeing their future stalled for another few months, a year, or two? There's plenty of greener pastures.

It really is a slap in the face to many excellent line pilots, and LOYAL employees to do something like that, in my opinion.

 

[JT8D]

Is it common for many current, and qualified pilots to be passed over for a bigger aircraft and pay grade position just because someone in the company, who is very very junior, has all the qualifications, and it is just CHEAPER maybe for the company to SCREW the rest of their qualified line pilots, and award the junior pilot the bid?

Does seniority matter at these companies, or is it just a false sense of job security, or lies in regards to career progression, and advancement into bigger, and better equipment?

Would having a union help these pilots? ALPA, perhaps? Is this the straw that breaks the camels back, will many pilots leave after seeing their future stalled for another few months, a year, or two? There's plenty of greener pastures.

It really is a slap in the face to many excellent line pilots, and LOYAL employees to do something like that, in my opinion.

Without a union seniority doesn't mean squat.

Upgrades come to those who win the popularity contest with management.

 

[tathepilot]

Would having a union help these pilots? ALPA, perhaps?

Got UNION?

 

[JessMan]

Up here at 025° after CRUXX upgrade is based on ability and performance, not seniority...non union.

 

[dickburns]

Up here at 025° after CRUXX upgrade is based on ability and performance, not seniority...non union.

Which in many cases is a good things, it keeps dip$********************s out of the left seat so to speak. I've seen high time guys with time in tye come in junior to qualified candidates get sent home from training, it goes both ways, depends on what the company needs and people need to realize that if they eve take a job with such a company.

Many of us chose to be at these various companies because there is no unions.

We've basically seen whats happened to the auto industry as of late (possibly because of their unions?), it has in-turn slowed down the on-demand freight indsutry significantly. That being said bring in the unions and watch what happens to usa jet and the like.

 

[Metro752]

The company in question normally doesn't pull the kind of crap they just did. Even if I personally like a bunch of the folks involved, including the guy who played leap frog, it still doesn't make it right when you promise your line pilots one thing, then do whatever the hell you want to save a buck.

Nobody else is making too much of a stink about it because they don't wanna get sh1tcanned like R.Mundt and B.Church, and that other -9 CA.

If you brought in unions, the higher ups bottom line might waiver a little bit because of the pilots banding together, and being properly compensated, and maybe even see some nice work rules, and people not afraid to NOT fly when fatigued/sick. That or wanting to get back to YIP instead of saying they can't keep going and getting stuck in Laredo for a week.

Then again when your owners threaten to take their ball and go home every time you say the word, union, it keeps folks in check. Doesn't help when there's too many guys who don't give a dang anyhow, either.

 

[landlover]

The company in question normally doesn't pull the kind of crap they just did. Even if I personally like a bunch of the folks involved, including the guy who played leap frog, it still doesn't make it right when you promise your line pilots one thing, then do whatever the hell you want to save a buck.

Nobody else is making too much of a stink about it because they don't wanna get sh1tcanned like R.Mundt and B.Church, and that other -9 CA.

If you brought in unions, the higher ups bottom line might waiver a little bit because of the pilots banding together, and being properly compensated, and maybe even see some nice work rules, and people not afraid to NOT fly when fatigued/sick. That or wanting to get back to YIP instead of saying they can't keep going and getting stuck in Laredo for a week.

Then again when your owners threaten to take their ball and go home every time you say the word, union, it keeps folks in check. Doesn't help when there's too many guys who don't give a dang anyhow, either.

LRD YIP? what's the difference?

Anyway, Randy is always spouting off about how non union jobs are the best thing in the world. However with the "accepted" structure of most companies with the seniority list and such. Where if you get put on the street and then called back, with retro pay. You'd be happy that you had a contract in place to secure such things. I'd take a union over not because of issues listed above. Flying sick or fatigued shouldn't even be an option. And no one should fear for their job to be at stake for it. I've called out sick at "the star" and no one ever questioned it.

 

[JT8D]

We've basically seen whats happened to the auto industry as of late (possibly because of their unions?)

Try Bill Clinton and a little thing he pushed thru called NAFTA.

Although it was good for on-demand freight operators at first (GM, for example, had to get that pallet of Mexican manufactured widgets from Mehico to Detoilet fast no matter what it cost them), it eventually killed the goose that was laying the golden eggs (the domestic auto industry).

You have a lot to learn about the airline industry young jetti. When you get off of Willow Run and get a job at a carrier that has a very anti-labor management force (such as NW), you will realize that as a pilot a union is indispensable.

 

[pilotyip]

more facts

it still doesn't make it right when you promise your line pilots one thing, then do whatever the hell you want to save a buck.

We save no money no matter who is trained. Class room time is free, the sim costs the same, and we have bounce to establish left currency. That was not the reason, we have a rush of potential DC-9 business coming to us this summer and need to get two more Captains on line by early June. We had put out a four-day DC-9 upgrade class bid, five qualified pilots put in bids. It was awarded to the two senior bidders, no problem yet? They both accepted. Then at 0800 the first day of class, one of the successful bidders drops out. We go down the seniority list in rank order and offer the class to every other qualified pilot. Everyone except the junior guy, whom everyone is upset about, turned down the bid. Our bid award was in keeping with written policy we have followed since the PPH was written over 8 years ago. It was approved by CH. Everyone else on the bid would have a required a waiver in flight time to go to DC-9 Captain. We have done that in the past, but only when there were not qualified bidders available to fill the slot. We will waive before we go out on the street, but will not waive if there are qualified pilots on our seniority list. We respect seniority and followed our written policy. Look at all the DC-9 F/O’s in the last year that had flight time waived because we did not have qualified bidders. GL was not qualified because he had not flown the DC-9 in 5 years, and had made a two-year commitment to the DA-20 when he was designated as DA-20 Check Airman in July of 2006. BTW No one stays in LRD on their days off unless they want to, except for a last minute canceled trip, everyone at USA Jet has hard days off, which is more than I can say for most union places with the ability to junior man.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Very common.

 

[dickburns]

Try Bill Clinton and a little thing he pushed thru called NAFTA.

Although it was good for on-demand freight operators at first (GM, for example, had to get that pallet of Mexican manufactured widgets from Mehico to Detoilet fast no matter what it cost them), it eventually killed the goose that was laying the golden eggs (the domestic auto industry).

You have a lot to learn about the airline industry young jetti. When you get off of Willow Run and get a job at a carrier that has a very anti-labor management force (such as NW), you will realize that as a pilot a union is indispensable.

I'm not based in willow run actually, don't even live in that state, I work for a different operator but I do respect usa jet as they set the standard for on-demand operations.

More than likely I will never go to a carrier that is unionized. I enjoy where I am, when we don't fly my guarantee check still pays the bills. I get weekends off and my company respects our requests for time off. I'm not big headed, like I feel a need to always stay in the left seat, I am happy where I am and what I am doing, it works for me.

I still fly to mexico often, hasn't slowed down too much going there or domestic trips either.

A union may be a good thing for a company that has a large amount of employees where their individual voices can't be heard as management has millions of issues going at once. But I couldn't think of any good a union would bring to a company with not many employees, mainly pilots.

 

[JT8D]

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[JT8D]

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[ABUSED PILOT]

if randy is explaining the facts accurately then no one should even have a remote problem with what has transpired. In addition in my 5.5 yrs at usajet never once did i have to stay on the road if i did not want to. There are two sides to every story and before anyone draws a conclusion it is best to investigate all the facts.

 

[dojetdriver]

You have a lot to learn about the airline industry young jetti.

Learn to spell you must.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

At NWA, for example, they have requirements to be a captain in a particular aircraft.

If you don't meet the requirements, and someone lower than you in seniority does meet the requirements, NWA will NOT give you the captain slot just because you are higher in seniority.

At TSA, for another example, my buddy was passed over for ERJ capt, and didn't upgrade until he met the TT requirements.

I have been passed over twice for -9 capt, because both times there was one guy below me who met the mins, and I didn't.

They guy they picked met all the requirements, and no one else did. You can argue that the requirements are crap, but that's another story.

Also, BC did NOT get fired. They used the new review procedures in place, which found that he is a good employee and an asset to the company. In the past, he easily could've been fired, because there was not a set procedure in place. If the right person didn't like you, you were gone. So, these new procedures are better for the employees.

I was at ALPA carrier. The pilot/mgmt relationship here at USA Jet is about 1000x better than my former ALPA carrier (and it WASN'T Mesa!).

cliff
GRB

 

[pilotyip]

Stop dealing in reality

Hi! I was at ALPA carrier. The pilot/mgmt relationship here at USA Jet is about 1000x better than my former ALPA carrier (and it WASN'T Mesa!).

cliff
GRB

Cliff stop posting this stuff, reality has no place on a pilot board.

 

[ABUSED PILOT]

atpcliff-

if you in any shape or form are not happy with the requirements at usajet pm me and i will be more than happy to trade places with you in a nano-second. The netjet and flexjet jobs are over rated. i realize now usajet was the best job i ever had

 

[Metro752]

atpcliff-

if you in any shape or form are not happy with the requirements at usajet pm me and i will be more than happy to trade places with you in a nano-second. The netjet and flexjet jobs are over rated. i realize now usajet was the best job i ever had

After being at USA Jet, working with some uptight weasels from time to time, does suck. Seriously though, the QOL at NJA, has to be better than JUS

 

[pilotyip]

Depends upon how you look at QOL

After being at USA Jet, working with some uptight weasels from time to time, does suck. Seriously though, the QOL at NJA, has to be better than JUS

If being home with our family s a major goal of QOL, then USA Jet may be better than NJ.