SWA announces new Denver service

[JetDude]

I couldn't disagree more about being well compensated. 190 bucks an hour for a senior major airline pilot is far from impressive. Just 10 years ago in 1997-1999 most NWA, AA, CAL were being paid about 170 an hour on similar equipment. In the present year 2008 that would have to be 220 an hour just to maintain the same earning power. And that 170 hour rate was before the acceptable contracts that United earned in late 2000 and Delta in 2001 which had 737 guys at 220 bucks an hour, and that was 7 years ago. Today that would have to be 267 for the same earning power. As far as I'm concerned you guys are about 75 an hour short from being well compensated.

Good...simple math. Funny thing about numbers, you can make them reflect any argument you want. But you forgot to factor in the furlough factor which drives the average (past) compensation waaaayyyy down. Talk to those that made those wages 4 years then spent the next 2-3 years on the street and see how the average stacks up.

 

[FlyinGuy]

I love how some of you form an opinion about an airline or a pilot group from this forum. This is a playground for people to spout off about whatever they want with no reprecussions.

 

[klr1395]

Now if only American, Delta and the rest said the same thing back in the early 70s and crushed those clowns back when it could have easily been done!

I do believe sir, that if you look at your history you will see that American/DFW and Braniff both tried and failed (reference the Wright Ammendment and the $13 fare war with Braniff). You should consider looking in the mirror at your own company and their management or lack thereof when casting blame for not being successful. If that explanation is not palpable to you then you must either be a communist or certainly at least not a fan of a free market economy. I am truly sorry so many are facing a bad situation, I would never wish those things on anyone, but be realistic about why they are happening... cheers and safe flying...

 

[328dude]

Are you or are you not still in the CRJ Pipe?

 

[vixin]

Just read some of pipes comments. He is somebodies 10 year old son on dad's computer. While I do agree some from swa are here in bad taste ie: bravodude. You really should read what you post! It is just business and we do not make those decisions. We simply fly from a-b, hopefully with a load of people behind us. Good luck to all.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I understand how you would believe that to be true but I will continue to call BS on your assumption--->My assumption???? And I work here...you don't, and by your own admission, you have never even flown on a SWA airplane..and you know about everyone hired here? You are waaaayyyyy out in left field with your "assumptions" until everyone hired before 9-11 took a lie detector test --->For your benefit?and I saw the results with my own 2 eyes.--->How?...you've never even been on a SWA airplane What current pilot at swa hired pre 9-11 is going to admit that swa was their booby prize. They would be shunned by all the post 9-11 kool-aid drinkers yall have over there!--->and...why are you, all of a sudden soooooo concerned about the SWA pilots, Flight Attendants, and hiring policies? yall are living in a fantasy world created by your management team not grounded in reality--->Gee, the guy who has never even been near a SWA airplane, makes outlandish statements about SWA, but has never been on a SWA airplane...says WE aren't grounded in reality.

Well...try this for "REALITY"....35 years of profits...35 years in a row. Employees that love their jobs, unlike other airlines ( maybe yours), a management team that doesn't change the major players every 5 or 6 years like some other airlines ( maybe yours), resutling in a change in corporate direction, strategy every 5 or 6 years...keeping the employees totally confused.

Employees having to dig in their pockets time and time and time and again, to bail out the mistakes of senior management ( maybe you've done that too)...furloughs as a way of life, including downgrades for the fortunate few that don't get furloughed. Been there too? Chapter 11 bankruptcy as a corporate srtategy...seen that before?

I have seen that before. I was at a "legacy" airline and experienced all of the above. I did all my homework before leaving the "Legacy" airline world for SWA.....looked at the balance sheets and saw the lack of debt....I made the right choice in the early 90's...feel the same way today.

The reality I'm grounded in is one of growth, profits and never having laid off an employee in the 37 years of this company's existence.

I'm happy enough with that...you clearly need more to make you happy....I hope you find it.

 

[The Prussian]

Fact is, Southwest was created for short-haul, low fare (low cost, ie discount), point to point air travel. Southwest from the outset never had major carriers in their cross hairs, though quite the opposite is true. What Southwest was competing with instead, was the automobile. To accomplish this was quite a challenge, because your higher seat mile costs are on your short haul legs. This necessitated paring down our costs to bare bones, to attract people out of the automobile, and into our aircraft. Southwest was not concerned with making life difficult for the established carriers, but instead growing its own marketplace consisting of people who had never flown before.
I don't feel any guilt or remorse for what we've been up to for all these years. As time has passed, a natural evolution has taken place in our business plan as medium and long haul opportunities have presented themselves. We still try to keep our costs as low as possible, which is why we have been actively involved in fuel hedging. I offer you, though, this suggestion: most other carriers have entered the discount travel market, and perhaps their costs do not allow for that. Southwest is not going to raise their fares to enter into a new business paradigm...perhaps the majors should raise their own fares, and compete amongst themselves for their own marketplace. After all, it may not seem like it, but we do have only a finite number of seats to offer, and our loads are fairly full.

 

[HDA]

From what I understand......and im wrong alot so who knows....but SWA did a double wammy three years ago with the fuel hedge "strategy". I understand that the hedging was bought with money to avoid taxes. Short term tax gain turned into long term profits on cheap tickets through the hedging and increase in oil prices. I really find it hard to believe that someone in the Dallas office could predict this unbelievable spike in oil..........just stumbled into it. However it happened (Strategic foresight or accidental) it sure was a good move.

I dont blame SWA pilots....just doing their job. I think SWA is a great company. I commute on them all the time and they have always treated me great. If they get their way in Denver I will be sending a resume their way! Time will tell......I hope that I dont have to do that.

 

[PCL_128]

little airline in Texas

Honestly, don't you think it's about time to stop referring to the country's biggest domestic airline as the "little airline in Texas?" The underdog schtick is getting old.

 

[328dude]

Ok agreed. Can I call you ValueJet then? Same turd, diffrent paintjob.

 

[TXDanno]

...Just 10 years ago in 1997-1999 most NWA, AA, CAL were being paid about 170 an hour on similar equipment.... And that 170 hour rate was before the acceptable contracts that United earned in late 2000 and Delta in 2001 which had 737 guys at 220 bucks an hour... Today that would have to be 267 for the same earning power...

Were those 'acceptable' contracts in any way part of the problems for those legacies? Or were those contracts basically untenable in the market? The legacies entered BK and/or received/took large contract concessions. Was this partly market correction?

Attention: Donning nomex suit at this time.

 

[PCL_128]

Ok agreed. Can I call you ValueJet then? Same turd, diffrent paintjob.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

...but SWA did a double wammy three years ago with the fuel hedge "strategy". I understand that the hedging was bought with money to avoid taxes

Uhhhh...how about 8 years ago...was when the hedging strategy was implemented. It is now part of the strategic planning.

In order to get into the hedge game...one has to put all the money up front...avoiding taxes isn't the reason.

 

[AdSo81]

for the sake of every resident in Colorado--I hope not!

Well, Colorado is not exactly the center of the universe--just a small niche market.[/quote]

Southwest is just doing what thousands of other Texans have been doing for years now, adding more traffic to my drive to work! Now if all you SW guys just started skiing in Jeans and windbreakers you'd fit right in!

 

[Bake]

Jeans? No way, we want to spend as much money as possible to look as silly as possible. That way all you people in jeans will get outta the way when we come barrelling down the slopes without stopping, until we hit something. It's the Texas way. Full blast until we stop or something stops us.

 

[Fubijaakr]

SWA's profits haven't come from fares. They've come from oil commodity trading.

 

[FlyinGuy]

One more time: Profits come from hedging when oil is high and fares when oil is low! It is a business strategy not game or gamble that "paid off".

 

[The Prussian]

Yet another astute post by FlyinGuy...reference post #35 on page 3 of this thread...

 

[pipejockey]

Were those 'acceptable' contracts in any way part of the problems for those legacies? Or were those contracts basically untenable in the market? The legacies entered BK and/or received/took large contract concessions. Was this partly market correction?

Attention: Donning nomex suit at this time.

No they were not in any way part of the problem. The problem is that everyone thinks they have the right to fly anywhere they want roundtrip for less than 200 bucks...NUTS!! Coast to coast for 250...NUTS!! As far as I'm concerned fares need to be doubled and pass the cost of doing business to the consumer not continue to support these fares on the backs of airline labor. If it means 10% of the flying public today will no longer fly, so be it!! Profits could be made, salaries could be brought back to 1992 earning levels. Is that so unrealistic? The APA's proposal to AMR is 1992 wages plus 2.9% added to that each year until reaching 2008. Is that so absurd? Even that modest proposal, amounts to a 50% pay raise. That just shows you how much has been lost. Too many of you have become complacent and have allowed yourselves to become conditioned to these low wages and management is laughing their asses off at you!!

Since when did flying become a right for a traveler and no longer a privilege?

 

[N1kawotg]

All this bashing about SWA is old. Look at history. Everytime others have furloughed, reduced service, etc. 70's early 80's, early 90's SWA has expanded. The plan is to save it times of good to be well prepared for the bad. SWA management should not sit in their meeting discussing new routes and service and what's the ticket price and then go "oh yea how will company x make money at our prices". They answer to their stock holders and employees. SWA does make money with those prices. Walmart isn't responsible for Kmart and Target costs, prices, and employees. Swa has to keep their employees happy and recieving their checks on the 5th and 20th.