ANG: Part Time

[ALIMBO]

I plan on applying with the Wisconsin ANG and the Indiana ANG once I graduate college here within the next year but before I do I have some quick questions. Is there anyone on this board from either two units? I know Indiana has F-16's what does Wisconsin fly? I have also been told it takes 2 years to complete training which is fine by me but once your done and if you plan on being part time what do you do when you have to work your one weekend a month? If your full time what is a typical day at work like I am assuming you don't fly all the time so what else do you do? Thanks for the help!

 

[stonewall]

Wisc flies F-16s, too.

You go to work on the weekend. It's not that bad.

No, you don't fly everyday if you're an ART or an AGR. You do normal squadron duties...training, scheduling, weapons, stan/eval, safety...it's a long list, but full timers in most fighter Guard units aren't THAT busy.

It's a short answer, but it would take 3 pages to answer your questions. Why don't you go visit the units on a drill weekend? You need to do that, anyway. And bring a big bottle of Jack Daniels with a squadron zap on it. Put your name on it, too! Good luck!

 

[ALIMBO]

Thanks for the info I always love reading your posts. So would recommend part time or full time?

 

[bssthound]

I've been in the Guard/Reserves for 22 years.

Trust me, as a new member of a Guard or Reserve unit you won't be competing for a permanent full-time slot. As a rule, those go to guys/gals who've been in the unit for awhile and have helped hack the mission.

That being said, if you're a new guy who's eager to learn, understands that sometimes he'll have to get the $h*tty end of the stick, and keeps a great attitude you will have enough work to pay your rent, car note, food on the table, etc.

The opportunity will almost always exist for more than the weekend a month plus Additional Flying Training Periods a flyer is guaranteed as a minimum. Keep a good attitude and work hard; you'll get extra work.

If a member (pun intended) all of a sudden displays a bad attitude or is less than forthright he/she will all of a sudden find the paydays drying up. Trust me, in 22 years I've seen that happen several times. As an older guy (happens to us all) I've helped put the kibosh on some attitude problems. I don't need that sort of garbage in my unit and don't give a dam* about someone who's going to cause problems. I know that sounds harsh but no matter how "nice" the guys are, when confronted with idiocy the fangs will come out.

The Guard and Reserves do have their differences. IMO, you should worry about getting a slot and through training before worrying about other things. Like MAGNUM!!, I could write 3 pages but won't. Take care of the basics first.

Also, heed MAGNUM!! He is a wise man who knows of what he speaks. I, too, am of the opinion that a BIG bottle of good firewater with a zap and your name on it will be well received. Nothing like having your name right there when said bottle is being poured from/drank straight from. Kinda a "hundred proof billboard!"

That being said, I wish you the very best of luck and would love to see you succeed. It is the best part-time job in the world and you will work with the finest people in the world. Period. I wish every deserving person could experience it.

 

[ALIMBO]

Excuse me newbness but whats a zap? Even though I have a year to go before I put my applications in who would I find to give a bottle of the finest too? Would be fine calling the units up and asking to speak to some of the pilots or am I going to be precieved by them as a loser wanna be fly boy?

 

[stonewall]

Excuse me newbness but whats a zap? Even though I have a year to go before I put my applications in who would I find to give a bottle of the finest too? Would be fine calling the units up and asking to speak to some of the pilots or am I going to be precieved by them as a loser wanna be fly boy?

A zap is a squadron sticker; usually of the patch.

NO, you will not be perceived as a loser wanna-be. Your point of contact will normally be the squadron commander. Yes, it seems odd to contact him directly, but it's his job to recruit and hire for the squadron. You can usually find the number of the unit online somewhere. Call it and ask for the squadron commander...you can often find out who that is through websites as well.

Tell him who you are and what you'd like to do. Odds are he will be more than happy to talk to you and give you the future hiring situation. The next step will be filling out an app or sending in a resume. Then you go visit during a drill weekend and bring the aforementioned bottle of jack...the first pilot you see will know what it's for and direct you to the bar. You will also likely meet several pilots who will be very friendly and helpful. After all, they may well have been in your shoes once.

Visiting the unit and and hanging out is a must. They need to get to know you to see if you're someone they want to keep around for 10+ years. YOU also need to get a feel as to whether or not the unit is right for you and whether or not you'd feel comfortable being there. As a new guy on full time orders, you'll probably be expected to live in the local area.

It's NEVER too early to start talking to squadrons! Get on it!

 

[AdlerDriver]

I plan on applying with the Wisconsin ANG and the Indiana ANG once I graduate college here within the next year but before I do I have some quick questions. Is there anyone on this board from either two units? I know Indiana has F-16's what does Wisconsin fly? I have also been told it takes 2 years to complete training which is fine by me but once your done and if you plan on being part time what do you do when you have to work your one weekend a month? If your full time what is a typical day at work like I am assuming you don't fly all the time so what else do you do? Thanks for the help!

You're getting good advice from everyone so far. One thing I would like to emphasize:

You’re probably not going to go to training, return to your unit after 2 years and be a “part timer” (what we call a traditional guardsman). You will be put on orders and will be full time for a while during your new-guy check out. Depending on the unit, this “seasoning” period could be as long as a couple of years. It’s not realistic to expect a brand new guy to be a part timer right away. You need to be eating and breathing fighter aviation daily for a while until you’ve gotten a good experience foundation established. My unit has always tried to put our Guard babies (brand new pilots with no previous active duty fighter experience) into full time slots to avoid this issue. It’s going to take 3-4 years of regular flying before you’ll be a true asset to the unit. Completing fighter training and returning to your Guard unit is just the start of a continuing education process. Guard pilots who can leave the fighter cockpit for a couple of weeks and go fly for an airline are only able to do that successfully because they have a solid experience base to fall back on. Even then, it might take a sortie or two to get back up on the step and really bring your “A-game”.

Also, even as a traditional guardsman, you won’t be flying “one weekend a month”. An F-15 pilot has to get 6 sorties a month as a minimum. I’ll bet the F-16 guys might need more because they have more training squares to fill as multi-role kind of guys. Those are just the minimum required sorties – if you want to be worth a d@mn in the jet, you probably won’t min run that every month, especially as a new guy.

I’ll leave the “day in the life” stuff for another post or you can PM if you want. Every fighter unit is a little different so some advice may vary. What you’ve gotten so far for advice will get you started down the right road. I just wanted to clarify a couple of points in your first post.
Good Luck.

 

[stonewall]

Good points, Adler. We have a bunch of AD guys at Langley that are completely confused about what it will mean when some of us go back part time.

As a part timer, you MUST make RAP. RAP is the Ready Aircrew Program, and it dictates how many sorties a fighter guy must fly each month to be "mission ready." RAP is the SAME for part-time guardsmen, full-timers, and Active Duty guys.

I flew 10-14 sorties a month, on average, as a part-timer in my F-16 unit. Ironically, I'll probably fly MORE sorties each month as a part-time F-22 guy than an active duty guy. I'll give my available days and will more than likely be scheduled to fly one or two times on each available day...that's just the way it is as a part-timer. They fly when they're available.

This will cause much consternation among the young captain types at Langley. Growing pains with the integration....

 

[kf4amu]

How similar is the fighter squadrons you guys have been talking about to a C130 squadron (Charlotte)?

I'm looking into it as well, but no fighter base at CLT.

 

[ALIMBO]

Same thing also looking at the C130 at Peoria, Il but my roots and heart is set on the Fighters. I am so lucky to post this thread I have been just going ballistic about how excited I am to graduate next year and apply considering this is something I have wanted since I was a kid.

 

[kf4amu]

I'd love to go fighters too, and my heart would be in it alot more than C130s. But CLT is my home, and my heart is here. I fly the Dash 8 now, and while the flying might be more challenging in the Guard, its still a high wing, short field TP. Many other factors are involved, and I'm trying to get all the info I can over the next few months.

 

[bssthound]

just going ballistic about how excited I am to graduate next year and apply considering this is something I have wanted since I was a kid

That, right there, is as important as anything else. Enthusiasm shows and definitely tilts the odds in your favor. Commanders want to hire guys who want to fly their jets.

 

[ALIMBO]

That, right there, is as important as anything else. Enthusiasm shows and definitely tilts the odds in your favor. Commanders want to hire guys who want to fly their jets.

Well right now I'm mad I'm not graduating I missed the UPT board at the Wisconsin ANG unit I want to apply to its coming up this May but I have a year to go. I see you have some time in the KC-135 and C-130 how do you like them? My heart like I said is in the fighters but I plan on applying to a couple of units that fly them to. I'm just nervous I have year to pull my gpa up but I'm afraid it still won't be high enough.

 

[Herculeus]

Anybody here in the Portland Or unit?

 

[bssthound]

I see you have some time in the KC-135 and C-130 how do you like them?

I do. The 135 was great because we went everywhere. I was in it for 4 short years and saw the world. I can't speak for today, but I'd guess you'd spend a good bit of time in the Middle East. You'd not have to worry about employment, though. A lot of tax-free Active Duty time and a lot of different stamps on your passport.

I like the 130, also. Again, plenty of opportunities to make extra money. Depending on the unit, you can do some very different kinds of flying. My unit flies into hurricanes, I can't speak for the TAC airlift or Special Ops guys. They do some really cool, challenging stuff. One thing I can say for them: I know a bunch of guys flying different types of 130s and one thing they have in common is they LOVE that airframe!


I loved flying the F-4. It was a dream since early childhood and I got to live it. No, tanker and 130 flying isn't nearly as exciting but I'd not change a thing. I have worked with some of the best people this world has to offer and have had some great times in some really cool places.

I'm just nervous I have year to pull my gpa up but I'm afraid it still won't be high enough

You've identified a problem. Fix it. If you don't then you only have yourself to blame. A flying squadron choosing between two qualified people will look at a bunch of stuff before comparing GPAs, if they even do compare them. That being said, you still want the highest possible GPA to show that you're serious and that you do have a good study habit. Unless you're the Commander's son or nephew you don't stand a chance of being considered without a strong GPA.

You've gotten some great advice from two of the most knowledgable people who post here: Magnum!! and AdlerDriver. They both are on the other side of the window you're looking through. Heed what they say. Do that and get your A$$ in the books. It's your ball, either shoot it or wonder about it the rest of your life.

 

[JungleJett]

I fly the Dash 8 now, and while the flying might be more challenging in the Guard, its still a high wing, short field TP. Many other factors are involved, and I'm trying to get all the info I can over the next few months.

There is ZERO similarities between flying a -8 and a -130...well not ZERO but you know what I mean.

Flying is flying...that is the easy part. Employing the weapon system is where you make your money. Flying an ILS to mins in the -8 cannot be compared to an ARA to some crap dirt strip in Afghanistan. When is the last time you led a four ship of -8's low level in the weather?

If you go into an interview with that sort of "attitude", you will get smoked! Not trying to be dick but I have seen airline pilots come in for interviews and think their airline flying will make for an easy transition to military flying. It will NOT! Not even close.

I used to fly for the airlines (now with a large fractional...thank GOD!) but am an enlisted fly'r in the Reserves. When I interviewed for my latest flying gig (which is SWEET), I made little mention of my flying on the outside. They brought it up and I told them the two are worlds apart.

Approach military flying as though you are starting over again...in most respects, you will be. As someone as said, this is the BEST deal in the world...bar none....unless the job for dressing/undressing Jessica Alba is available.

 

[a10hogplt]

There is ZERO similarities between flying a -8 and a -130...well not ZERO but you know what I mean.

Flying is flying...that is the easy part. Employing the weapon system is where you make your money. Flying an ILS to mins in the -8 cannot be compared to an ARA to some crap dirt strip in Afghanistan. When is the last time you led a four ship of -8's low level in the weather?

If you go into an interview with that sort of "attitude", you will get smoked! Not trying to be dick but I have seen airline pilots come in for interviews and think their airline flying will make for an easy transition to military flying. It will NOT! Not even close.

I used to fly for the airlines (now with a large fractional...thank GOD!) but am an enlisted fly'r in the Reserves. When I interviewed for my latest flying gig (which is SWEET), I made little mention of my flying on the outside. They brought it up and I told them the two are worlds apart.

Approach military flying as though you are starting over again...in most respects, you will be. As someone as said, this is the BEST deal in the world...bar none....unless the job for dressing/undressing Jessica Alba is available.

You can have my guard slot. Two jobs sucks. You have no life.

 

[stonewall]

You can have my guard slot. Two jobs sucks. You have no life.

Do you commute to both?

 

[navigatro]

Apply everywhere. Take the first pilot slot you get. Do not worry so much about your grades. We want well rounded, good people, not social misfit brainiacs. Also, if you get into the Wisconsin ANG, you will be a member of the WANG!

Good Luck!!!!!

 

[hindsight2020]

You can have my guard slot. Two jobs sucks. You have no life.

Agreed. That's why public sector is where it's AT! AGR/ART is the way to go..at least that's what I'm shooting for long-term. Barring a crapshoot NetJets call (only no-commute gig from where I live) in a decade when I'll be marginally competitive for that job (meh..), there's NO airline I'd try to swing the two-job shuffle for, let alone commute on top of that.

Given the current state of things, I suspect there won't be many "AGR/ART vs airline" threads on this board for the foreseeable future, 'nuff said. I'm dead serious about that, I'll freelance CFI and greet at Wal-mart if the trough gets too lean to pay the rent, before I go work for a friggin' regional, while waiting on the ART job. Commuting is the devil, commuting to a no-pension job is mental lol.

To the OP, I interviewed with Fort Wayne and Toledo several moons ago. Good bunch of folks, and they get a healthy amount of applicants. That's a tough cookie to crumble though, especially post-BRAC 2005 and the UAV revolution. At any rate after 3 years I gave up on the Guard (and the Viper dream) and went heavy Reserves. I can tell you that having ANY Guard/Reserve job, particularly one with a healthy pot of money, is the best thing you can do for your flying aspirations. I would apply to all of them with locations you wouldn't mind being local to, and go with the first one that hires ya. I'm biased to the Reserves, it's been my experience that they push you way quicker through the training pipeline and have a larger money pot than the average guard unit, which means better employment outlook. Mileage may vary on that one of course. Good luck.