Question about idling on the ramp?

[iflyabeech]

Guys,

First off, I am not here to flame. I am a huge supporter of you guys and the rest of our military. Frankly, I am jealous, I wish I would have taken your route to the skies!

Tonight as we were loading my plane for our regularly scheduled route in South Texas, there was an Air Force T-1 which started up in front of me. The guys sit right there on the ramp at what seems like a high idle speed for 10-15 minutes. I suppose running checklists, etc. Positioned behind them on the ramp, my ground crew and I couldn't communicate due to the noise and the exhaust fumes made my ground crew and I nauseous. I have had this happen numerous times. When I used to fly air ambulance, I was parked behind another T-1 which started as I stopped. I had a very sick baby who we could not unload into the hot, windy, and noxious exhaust. I walked around and tried motioning to the guys flying to cut the engine, and finally had to call ground to get them to cut off the engines so we could unload the kiddo.

I have seen Navy aircraft from Corpus and Kingsville do this as well, so I suppose it is standard practice on military bases. Given that civilian fields are different than military fields, I think you guys may not realize that your jet blast interferes with civilian operations when you sit on the ramp for extended periods of time.

Would it be possible to move to an area other than a ramp to run the checklists? Or another any other solution. . . .

I only write this friendly post here because I don't know who to call and discuss it with.


Thanks!

 

[AdlerDriver]

I doubt you're going to have much influence in changing the syllabus requirements of military training flights. Students are students and pre-flight checks are going to take a while when they're new.

I'd say you'd have better luck choosing a different parking spot. Or maybe getting the airport manager to consider re-aligning the parking spots if the current arrangement doesn't make sense.

 

[iflyabeech]

Thanks, but thats the thing. Its not just one airport. It just seems that given the time it takes, it would be more courteous and safer to the other folks on the ramp to move to a less crowded area to complete the required checks.

When I was a CFI, teaching about the effects of our prop blast was part of our syllabus.

 

[Scrapdog]

Thanks, but thats the thing. Its not just one airport. It just seems that given the time it takes, it would be more courteous and safer to the other folks on the ramp to move to a less crowded area to complete the required checks.

When I was a CFI, teaching about the effects of our prop blast was part of our syllabus.

Reference my response to the exact same post you made on APC forums.

 

[McGillicutty]

I didn't see much of a time difference between when I was instructing students in the civilian world and as a student going through NAS Corpus Christi. IIRC some of the before takeoff checks in the B-200 are a bit lengthy but that's Beechcraft, not just Navy.

 

[iflyabeech]

I didn't see much of a time difference between when I was instructing students in the civilian world and as a student going through NAS Corpus Christi. IIRC some of the before takeoff checks in the B-200 are a bit lengthy but that's Beechcraft, not just Navy.

Its not really doing takeoff checks. Its doing them on the ramp, and jet blasting others using the ramp.

Again, I am not trying to flame anyone here, just looking for a solution.

 

[jbDC9]

Its not really doing takeoff checks. Its doing them on the ramp, and jet blasting others using the ramp.

Again, I am not trying to flame anyone here, just looking for a solution.

I'm kinda glad Mr Flyabeech asked this question, as I've wondered the same myself. Hooks Airport (DWH) in Houston gets lots of transient military traffic; Navy/AF T-6s, AF T-1s, Army helicopters and C-12 King Airs, Navy T-34s, and it seems like darn near all of 'em do this. Crank 'em up and sit. And sit. And then sit some more. It seems like the Army C-12s are the worst... must have some fancy avionics that take awhile to spin up or just some really loooong checklists.

 

[HoursHore]

The Air force in all its wisdom doesn't use flows. What should take 5 minutes takes 20 as the students fumbles through mundane items and take forever.

As for the T-1, When we were on a Civilian ramp, from what I remember, we'd get in, Start engines using the battery as quickly as possible, turn on the Airconditioning, then go back and do the rest of the checklist.

Also , sometimes we'd have to wait for a time to hit the A/R track or low level route. But there is no reason that couldn't be done elsewhere on the ramp.

 

[tumbleweed]

Generally, most military ramps are setup so jet/prop blast and noise is not an issue. With this in mind...most mil pilots will make sure the aircraft is ready to fly before taxiing. So I assume that would also bleed over to ops at civilian fields, which usually aren't set up nearly as well. It always amuses me when the rampers park some light prop behind a couple jets there for a gas-n-go. What do they think is going to happen!

Back in my T-37 days we could taxi out fairly quick after engine start (<10 min). Only issue was we had to run one motor up above idle to get the other one started. And it was a noisy son of a biatch. Most guys would shut down the ramp side motor when taxiing in to mitigate that if possible. I would highly recommend NEVER parking behind an F-16 if you run across one on a ramp somewhere...your aircraft may make an unscheduled flight.

 

[iflyabeech]

ha i think the tweet is noisy even when its not running!