SWA upgrades

[captain dad]

Heard SWA upgrades well beyond Ten Years.

So what do you think?

 

[roughneck]

true.

 

[On Your Six]

Expected time range?

What's a "reasonable" expectation for upgrade for a recent newhire? What time range would you give (minimum years to maximum based on current conditions and estimates)? I understand things can change - just looking for a "reasonable" time range. Are we talking 12-15 years until first upgrade opportunity?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

The real title to this thread should be:

The Bad News is You May Not Upgrade at SWA for Ten Years, But the Good News is You Will Make More in Ten Years Than Most Other Airlines' Captains

 

[pacswaski]

Who knows. It could be quicker after the merger. Or slower. There are no orders of 737's after 2014 because apparently they won't be coming of the assembly line anymore. So what will SWA's new order be after that? Who knows.
How many guys will stay past 61 / 62 / 63 ????
Who knows.

As of now, 5 to six year upgrades are probably a thing of the past.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

That was the same topic of conversation just after 9/11 when new acft were delivered and promptly parked in the desert....

...when you least expect it...things can change...sometimes for the worse...sometimes for the better

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

That was the same topic of conversation just after 9/11 when new acft were delivered and promptly parked in the desert....

...when you least expect it...things can change...sometimes for the worse...sometimes for the better

My buddy at American says I'll still upgrade before him, He's been there for 8+ years, Me one year at SWA...Heck I didn't know we were required to upgrade when I got here (you're not required to upgrade, just take Capt checks every 6 months instead of FO once a year) there have been exceptions to the rule with higher up approval but somewhat rare. I guess it's like American's so called "up or out" or at least IMO. Anyone tried the union Seniority projector since it was updated, I don't really care but someone who has run it could give you a pretty good idea, At this moment, if nothing changes, but it's aviation and you know how that works.
KBB

 

[Donald]

I was hired March 1st 04. I recently did the SWAPA upgrade projector. Before the age change it was projecting summer of 2010 for me(just over six years). Now it is projecting Aug 2012 to Jan 2013. That is just an extra 2.5 years, but who knows. There are so many variables out there. A merger could have a huge effect depending on how seniority lists are merged.

 

[Donald]

As far as the 737, that is true about deliveries ending around 2014. We have been told by mgmt that we will be converting to the narrow-body version of the 787.

 

[Aubie]

Dude, "told by management" means nothing. Because the management we interact with doesn't know. All speculation this far out. And whatever Gary and the inner circle really want to do we won't know until it happens. They keep their cards close to the vest (as they should). And of Bob Torti's predictions (man I love listening to him, BTW) he's 0 for 32 since I have been keeping score.

Bottom line lots can and will change between now and then...

 

[jball2]

Aubie, a little off topic, but were you THE Aubie? I heard we had an AUBIE here.

Jball2 AU '97
WAAAAAARRRRR EAGLE!

 

[PreContact]

As far as the 737, that is true about deliveries ending around 2014. We have been told by mgmt that we will be converting to the narrow-body version of the 787.

So are you going to have Boeing disconnect the auothrottles on them as well?

 

[Old School]

dude you didnt hear, SWA is turning on the autothrottles by July to save fuel. The upkeep has been overshadowed by the cost savings of using them.

 

[hockeypilot44]

The real title to this thread should be:

The Bad News is You May Not Upgrade at SWA for Ten Years, But the Good News is You Will Make More in Ten Years Than Most Other Airlines' Captains

We'll see. That's the way USair used to be. Look at that place now. Ten years ago Southwest was the lowest paid airline in the industry. SWA has pretty good management, but that can change in the 30+ years that most newhires have left in their careers. Any airline job is a gamble. SWA is not exempt from that rule. The sad thing is that Southwest's payscale only increased to cover inflation so the same scale that used to be a joke is now everyone's dream. It just shows you how far back this job (ex-profession) has fallen.

 

[bravodude]

We'll see. That's the way USair used to be. Look at that place now. Ten years ago Southwest was the lowest paid airline in the industry. SWA has pretty good management, but that can change in the 30+ years that most newhires have left in their careers. Any airline job is a gamble. SWA is not exempt from that rule. The sad thing is that Southwest's payscale only increased to cover inflation so the same scale that used to be a joke is now everyone's dream. It just shows you how far back this job (ex-profession) has fallen.

I guess 200/hr for a 737 is just to cover inflation riiiiiiiiight!

 

[bravodude]

people here are saying 10-12 yrs right now. However i think the guys that got the shaft are the ones who were getting ready to upgrade now, those are the ones that will have to wait a while. If you are hired now there is just no way to tell. (having said all that I believe the next bid for june has 33 upgrade slots available)

 

[On Your Six]

people here are saying 10-12 yrs right now. However i think the guys that got the shaft are the ones who were getting ready to upgrade now, those are the ones that will have to wait a while. If you are hired now there is just no way to tell. (having said all that I believe the next bid for june has 33 upgrade slots available)

That's what I have been hearing too. Although you need to also factor in the upcoming Age 70 rule change that senior SWA pilots will be championing as well... If that happens expect a 20 year upgrade...

 

[Tanker Clown]

That's what I have been hearing too. Although you need to also factor in the upcoming Age 70 rule change that senior SWA pilots will be championing as well... If that happens expect a 20 year upgrade...

The good news about SWA and Age 70 is that in the new contract they negotiated in Hospice care. That way, you can pretty much work until they're throwing dirt on you. Thanks again old timers!

 

[hockeypilot44]

I guess 200/hr for a 737 is just to cover inflation riiiiiiiiight!

Believe it or not, there were 737 captains at United, NWA, Delta, etc. making close to $200/hour back in 1999. Pilots are extremely short-sighted. SWA is a great place to work right now compared to the other passenger airlines, but if you think it's going to be the premier place to work for the next 30 years or even 20 years, then you're being extremely naive. Again, pilots are extremely short-sighted.

 

[FatesPawn]

I guess 200/hr for a 737 is just to cover inflation riiiiiiiiight!

The payrates for a SWA Captain in 1984 was about $8,000/month.

Go here:

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/

and check out the inflation calculator to see what $8,000 in 1984 dollars buys you in 2008 dollars.

So yes, SWA pay has only increased on a COLA basis. However, it SEEMS like much more, because it DRAGGED behind with a short lived B-scale, and a concessionary "stockoptions-in-lieu-of-pay-scheme" but the 2002 mid-contract pay adjustment brought the hourly(trip) rates back to a inflation adjusted number.

-fate