So what's the deal with DL and Mesa 900s?

[OCP]

Is Mesa actually flying them? The Delta website says that they are.

 

[sweptback]

Saw one parked at C concourse in ATL the other day.

 

[dooork]

Is Mesa actually flying them? The Delta website says that they are.

Yes. Freedom...which is a division of MESA.
Wehave 6 now and 8 more by start of 2009.

 

[McNugent]

Until Delta realizes how much you suck and takes them back

 

[blesko]

Saw one parked at C concourse in ATL the other day.

the ones parked at C are pinnacles'...those with the "PQ" tail number are theirs. Freedumbs are operated out of JFK, for now. JFK-ORD, JFK-DFW and maybe a few other city pairs

 

[sweptback]

the ones parked at C are pinnacles'...those with the "PQ" tail number are theirs. Freedumbs are operated out of JFK, for now. JFK-ORD, JFK-DFW and maybe a few other city pairs

I know how to tell them apart, thank you very much. It was a Freedom one. Don't know what they were doing there but it wasn't Pinnacle.

 

[Hypoxik]

Saw one in BOS doing the JFK run.

 

[TAWS]

2 airlines.

1 that couldn't staff it's core business last summer (NWA) and subsequently paid NWA over $1million in charges.
1 that can't staff it's business with UAL, or USAIR yet somehow starts feeding DAL.

How does this happen??

 

[dooork]

Until Delta realizes how much you suck and takes them back

Lets see...ASA was the worst airline...was it last year or ever?...I dont know...but they are still around!

 

[USCtrojan]

Lets see...ASA was the worst airline...was it last year or ever?...I dont know...but they are still around!

ASA is arguably the most profitable airline in the Airline industry. It IS the most profitable in the Regional ranks.

Trojan

 

[dooork]

ASA is arguably the most profitable airline in the Airline industry. It IS the most profitable in the Regional ranks.

Trojan

OK.I was not talking about profits.

 

[OCP]

Lets see...ASA was the worst airline...was it last year or ever?...I dont know...but they are still around!

Really....And over 5 years in to a contract that was over 5 years ago, and we should be the best?

Let's see how Mesa does with their contract.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Lets see...ASA was the worst airline...was it last year or ever?

ASA was in bitter contract negotiations for 5 years that spilled over into performance numbers. Since signing our numbers have come up. Also our only base is ATL which can be a performance killer.

 

[indianboy7]

2 airlines.

1 that couldn't staff it's core business last summer (NWA) and subsequently paid NWA over $1million in charges.
1 that can't staff it's business with UAL, or USAIR yet somehow starts feeding DAL.

How does this happen??

Bankruptcy court....

 

[ohplease!]

OK.I was not talking about profits.

You think anything else matters?!?

 

[CFI2766]

2 airlines.

1 that couldn't staff it's core business last summer (NWA) and subsequently paid NWA over $1million in charges.
1 that can't staff it's business with UAL, or USAIR yet somehow starts feeding DAL.

How does this happen??

Delta, like the passengers, places the cost of the ticket well above the quality of the service in order of preference when it comes time to choose a regional feeder. Cheapest wins.

Just an observation....

 

[SoberIrishman]

ASA never came anywhere close to being as bad as F8, ever!

When Freedom flight attendants cannot even do their safety announcement without reading from the manual, that says a lot about the level of training and professionalism. This is witnessed by the passengers, and hopefully the FAA, on a daily basis.

ASA runs a very professional operation at what is considered to be the busiest airport in the world. The future of the MESA operation for mainline is without doubt less than rosy.

 

[Medeco]

ASA never came anywhere close to being as bad as F8, ever!

When Freedom flight attendants cannot even do their safety announcement without reading from the manual, that says a lot about the level of training and professionalism. This is witnessed by the passengers, and hopefully the FAA, on a daily basis.

ASA runs a very professional operation at what is considered to be the busiest airport in the world. The future of the MESA operation for mainline is without doubt less than rosy.

About 2 years ago I noticed our ASA FA's reading the same way. This was back when they reduced the training timeline for the FA program. Before that changed they had to know it from memory. Maybe they still do, but they get out online and read.

Just so you know we are not immune to this.

Medeco

 

[gator_hater]

I thought I heard one of ASA's FA instructors say that they incouraged reading of the announcement sop they didn't scew it up.

Cheers for New Belgium

 

[WSurf]

ASA never came anywhere close to being as bad as F8, ever!

When Freedom flight attendants cannot even do their safety announcement without reading from the manual, that says a lot about the level of training and professionalism. This is witnessed by the passengers, and hopefully the FAA, on a daily basis.

ASA runs a very professional operation at what is considered to be the busiest airport in the world. The future of the MESA operation for mainline is without doubt less than rosy.

So what if they were reading it from the manual. I think the FAA would be glad that they did it word for word. Maybe it was a bunch of new-hire FA's, jeez I know Mesa has a big turnover there.

As for ASA running a VERY PROFESSIONAL OPERATION..... hmmmmm I don't think I would have gone that route yet. After reading a bunch of post by ASA people, I think they are working towards that with there new contract.

 

[IronCityBlue]

You think anything else matters?!?

Profits mean nothing for an operator with guaranteed profits by the "parent" company. Not only that, but the more profitable an ACMI outsource lift provider is, the more that means the mainline partner is overpaying for that service, from their point of view.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

As for ASA running a VERY PROFESSIONAL OPERATION..... hmmmmm I don't think I would have gone that route yet. After reading a bunch of post by ASA people, I think they are working towards that with there new contract.

Don't let the vocal minority on this site sway you. ASA is a great place to work now. And it's spelled "their"

 

[Abernathy]

ASA was in bitter contract negotiations for 5 years that spilled over into performance numbers. Since signing our numbers have come up. Also our only base is ATL which can be a performance killer.

Not only that, the thing we were worst at, Baggage Handling, is completely out of our control. Delta does our baggage handling.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

Not only that, the thing we were worst at, Baggage Handling, is completely out of our control. Delta does our baggage handling.

Only in the cities where Delta does our baggage handling, and the numbers now reflect that factoid. So ATL baggage blunders are now placed on Delta. However, in ASA field stations where a 50 seater can't fit all the bags, or an ATR in Hilton Head, those numbers are all on ASA.

 

[outtahere]

ASA has never really been that bad, our problem is that we hired a bunch of guys from 1999 to 2002 that had never had another flying job, ever. If you have no perspective, then it all seems bad at times. Me on the other hand, I got plenty of perspective thanks to the fat AZZ colgan family. That was pure hell from the word go! ASA has been a cake walk for the past four years!

 

[SoberIrishman]

So what if they were reading it from the manual. I think the FAA would be glad that they did it word for word. Maybe it was a bunch of new-hire FA's, jeez I know Mesa has a big turnover there.

Even reading it from the manual, they still don't get it right! On several flights I have seen this happen, and it just makes you cringe.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Profits mean nothing for an operator with guaranteed profits by the "parent" company. Not only that, but the more profitable an ACMI outsource lift provider is, the more that means the mainline partner is overpaying for that service, from their point of view.

The mainlines....with the assistance of ALPA....made this bed....The mainlines can't survive without domestic feed and they will pay for it....

Skywest and ASA have made profits since day one.....We need to be careful so as to not lose the business...but there aren't many airlines that can say they have made profits for the past 30 years....

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Skywest and ASA have made profits since day one.....We need to be careful so as to not lose the business...but there aren't many airlines that can say they have made profits for the past 30 years....

I think we posted a loss in the first quarter of the company's existence... lol

 

[IronCityBlue]

The mainlines....with the assistance of ALPA....made this bed....The mainlines can't survive without domestic feed and they will pay for it....

Skywest and ASA have made profits since day one.....We need to be careful so as to not lose the business...but there aren't many airlines that can say they have made profits for the past 30 years....

Mainline pilots and ALPA dropped the ball by initially and currently letting any flying be outsourced, especially any jet over 50 seats. That much is true.

As for "making the bed", its not permanent. Mainlines can reclaim their flying anytime they want to bargain for it. ACMI outsource lift providers can comply with mainline terms or go Independence Air. No other choice. The RJDC supporters claimed that once flying is outsourced, even for a day, that flying forever is the domain of the group (within the same union) that received the outsource contract. That insane presumption is 100% false, and the lawsuit yielded nothing but a "heads up" and partial attorney expenses. End of story.

Of course SkyWest and ASA have made profits. They were in the business of guaranteed profits. Even when each could theoretically lose money they didn't because they had someone else selling and filling their seats for them, with worldwide brand recognition and global connections. If SkyWest and/or ASA are such profit machines, dump the Delta and United albatrosses, buy 777's and do the flying yourself. Or run an airline with hundreds of RJ's and a few narrow bodies, whatever your choice. But as long as you do one seat of Delta or United code, you are bound to serve Delta and United on their terms. You will never own one seat of DL or UA flying, ever. Not even close. You only own EV and OO code, which doesn't yet exist among the traveling public. Go Independence if you want to change that.

Of course mainlines need domestic feed. And some of that feed needs to come from 90, 70 and 50 seat RJ's as well as props. No one disputes that. But here's the gold standard with this whole argument that you don't seem to get as of yet: mainlines can do their own feed anytime they want to, and their pilots can pilot that feed anytime they negotiate the restoration of their scope. Scope that you have no claim whatsoever to and never will. Delta and United can hire your company, another company, start a company that doesn't exist yet, or bring it in house completely, and in either case there is nothing you can do about it because you have no claim to another airline's flying.

As for your 30 years of profits, again, go Independence if the company is so awesome and invincible. Either that or take what DL and UA and whoever else's contract you win for the duration that you win it, but it will never be yours to own or control.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Mainline pilots and ALPA dropped the ball by initially and currently letting any flying be outsourced, especially any jet over 50 seats. That much is true.

As for "making the bed", its not permanent. Mainlines can reclaim their flying anytime they want to bargain for it. ACMI outsource lift providers can comply with mainline terms or go Independence Air. No other choice. The RJDC supporters claimed that once flying is outsourced, even for a day, that flying forever is the domain of the group (within the same union) that received the outsource contract. That insane presumption is 100% false, and the lawsuit yielded nothing but a "heads up" and partial attorney expenses. End of story.

Of course SkyWest and ASA have made profits. They were in the business of guaranteed profits. Even when each could theoretically lose money they didn't because they had someone else selling and filling their seats for them, with worldwide brand recognition and global connections. If SkyWest and/or ASA are such profit machines, dump the Delta and United albatrosses, buy 777's and do the flying yourself. Or run an airline with hundreds of RJ's and a few narrow bodies, whatever your choice. But as long as you do one seat of Delta or United code, you are bound to serve Delta and United on their terms. You will never own one seat of DL or UA flying, ever. Not even close. You only own EV and OO code, which doesn't yet exist among the traveling public. Go Independence if you want to change that.

Of course mainlines need domestic feed. And some of that feed needs to come from 90, 70 and 50 seat RJ's as well as props. No one disputes that. But here's the gold standard with this whole argument that you don't seem to get as of yet: mainlines can do their own feed anytime they want to, and their pilots can pilot that feed anytime they negotiate the restoration of their scope. Scope that you have no claim whatsoever to and never will. Delta and United can hire your company, another company, start a company that doesn't exist yet, or bring it in house completely, and in either case there is nothing you can do about it because you have no claim to another airline's flying.

As for your 30 years of profits, again, go Independence if the company is so awesome and invincible. Either that or take what DL and UA and whoever else's contract you win for the duration that you win it, but it will never be yours to own or control.

If that is the position of my union.....then bring the gas and the lighter.....I will not support a union that takes the position that my job is a mainline bargaining chip....

I'm not going to argue with you....I'm just going to tell you that position won't fly with those of us who have now made a career of the "outsourced" flying....

Decide if you want to have a union or not.....doesn't sound like you want that....