Game On! at US Airways

[bchjetdrvr]

Pilot's gun discharges on US Airways flight 7:24 AM


[SIZE=-1]07:24 AM EDT on Monday, March 24, 2008[/SIZE]


[SIZE=-1]By DIANA RUGG / WCNC [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]E-mail Diana: [email protected][/SIZE]

CHARLOTTE, N.C.-- A US Airways pilot’s gun accidentally discharged during a flight from Denver to Charlotte Saturday, according to a statement released by the airline.
The statement said the discharge happened on Flight 1536, which left Denver at approximately 6:45 a.m. and arrived in Charlotte at approximately 11:51 a.m.
The Airbus A319 plane landed safely and none of the flight’s 124 passengers or five crew members was injured, according to the statement. It was a full flight. An airline spokeswoman said the plane has been taken out of service to make sure it is safe to return to flight.
A Transportation Safety Administration spokeswoman reached by WCNC Sunday said the pilot is part of TSA’s Federal Flight Deck Officer (FFDO) program, which trains pilots to carry guns on flights. Andrea McCauley said the gun discharged in the cockpit, but she could not release how the gun was being transported at the time. She did not release the pilot’s name, but said he was authorized to carry the weapon and was last requalified in the FFDO program last November.
A statement from TSA said the airplane was never in danger, and the TSA and the Federal Air Marshals Service are investigating the incident.

WCNC reporter Diana Rugg is following up on this story. If you or someone you know were on that flight, please e-mail her at [email protected].

http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/wcnc-032308-sjf-gunonplane.1c4cabd1.html

___________________________:uzi: _______________

Accident.....sure it was... .. I think maybe he saw his old boss MS trying to board his plane..

 

[blueridge71]

DOH! I think that guy must have screwed up. That weapon would not have discharged if it was in his holster.

 

[batsky2000]

I knew this would happen some day, this is by far the stupidest law our gov't. ever made, to allow pilots to carry guns in the cockpit. I am still betting on the day that one of these FFDO's has a very bad day, divorce, hates his job, etc.... and shoots himself and the other pilot, stuff like this has happened before, Remember FEDEX? he used an ax and other weapons, now a pilot who has a mental breakdown can use a gun, and our gov't is the one to blame when that happens!!

 

[blueridge71]

I disagree. It is a great program and one of the most cost-effective things the government has ever done. Screening is very intensive. There might be a few bad apples, but they are definitely in the minority.

If a pilot is going to snap, he could just as easily do in the other guy with a crash axe or just lock him out of the cockpit when he goes to the lav. You could make the same generalities and assumptions about any LEO who carries on board an aircraft.

The alternative is to either hire massive numbers of FAMs or leave flights open to hijackers. I'd much rather take my chances with an FFDO at the controls than an Mad Mullah up front and an F16 off my wing.

I'm guessing you probably have issues about guns in general.

 

[Bruce Dickenson]

I knew this would happen some day, this is by far the stupidest law our gov't. ever made, to allow pilots to carry guns in the cockpit. I am still betting on the day that one of these FFDO's has a very bad day, divorce, hates his job, etc.... and shoots himself and the other pilot, stuff like this has happened before, Remember FEDEX? he used an ax and other weapons, now a pilot who has a mental breakdown can use a gun, and our gov't is the one to blame when that happens!!

What would prevent the pilot from using the FLIGHT CONTROLS to kill everyone??

 

[Helmsalee]

BS2000, you are way off. The guy probably was showing off to the other pilot and screwed up. I know several pilots in the program and they are the most stable people you could imagine. Personality profiles, background checks and intensive training. BR71 is correct, this is one of the most effective and cost efficient programs ever conceived.

 

[dime line]

I knew this would happen some day, this is by far the stupidest law our gov't. ever made, to allow pilots to carry guns in the cockpit. I am still betting on the day that one of these FFDO's has a very bad day, divorce, hates his job, etc.... and shoots himself and the other pilot, stuff like this has happened before, Remember FEDEX? he used an ax and other weapons, now a pilot who has a mental breakdown can use a gun, and our gov't is the one to blame when that happens!!

Always need to blame someone else. Eaisest thing to do. what about police that go bad, and use there power? I'm all for "Capable" pilots carring guns.

Funny thing a person can work McDonalds on day and go to the police accademy the next.

 

[Ticker]

Up until (I believe) the spring of '01, the FAR's actually allowed for the carrying of guns in the cockpit. That summer, they changed the law. Until that time it was at the discretion of the air carrier weather or not their pilots carried a firearm. I've spoken to a few old timers who used to carry while on duty.

...oh yeah, the crew of Egypt Air flight 990 weren't carrying. http://ntsb.gov/Publictn/2002/aab0201.htm

 

[50Pesos]

Hey Mods

what is this doing in the frac section?

 

[batsky2000]

name one other airline in the world that allows guns in the cockpit, the answer is easy NONE not even El El allows its pilots to carry guns in the cockpit, and thay have someone trying to blow them up daily, so why are we any different? Plus, an FFDO is not allowed to carry a gun Int'l, if anything, using it on an int'l flight is more of a plus than domestic, but no other country will allow a pilot to carry a gun in the cockpit, so what is the point, to look cool having a gun, I am not against guns, I own 3, I just don't believe a gun belongs in a cockpit.

Plus the idea that just because you are an FFDO excludes you from having your bags go through the x-ray machine is pure BS, what makes them so special, that makes it too easy for one of them to transport illegal stuff, that day will come, then things will change again

 

[JoePa]

pilots should stick to flying! not againts it, but accidents happen, and innocent people get hurt.

 

[Chairman]

I was against it too. So I decided if I felt that way I would go through the training so I could have a true argument. My tune changed after a week in New Mexico. Weither you carry or not the training is invalualbe!

 

[Donsa320]

Up until (I believe) the spring of '01, the FAR's actually allowed for the carrying of guns in the cockpit. That summer, they changed the law. Until that time it was at the discretion of the air carrier weather or not their pilots carried a firearm. I've spoken to a few old timers who used to carry while on duty.

...oh yeah, the crew of Egypt Air flight 990 weren't carrying. http://ntsb.gov/Publictn/2002/aab0201.htm

Guns left the cockpit long before 2001. The FAR's and CAR's never addressed the issue. What ended it was the X-raying of our Flight Kit bags by security. That started some time after the frequent diversions to Cuba started. A long time ago.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

I knew this would happen some day, this is by far the stupidest law our gov't. ever made, to allow pilots to carry guns in the cockpit. I am still betting on the day that one of these FFDO's has a very bad day, divorce, hates his job, etc.... and shoots himself and the other pilot, stuff like this has happened before, Remember FEDEX? he used an ax and other weapons, now a pilot who has a mental breakdown can use a gun, and our gov't is the one to blame when that happens!!

Apples to oranges!! Any pilot on any given day can grab the crash ax and do the same thing as what happened duing the fed ex deal. No I think it's a good thing to have FFDO's just not dumb A__ FFDO's.

WD.

 

[batsky2000]

Apples to oranges!! Any pilot on any given day can grab the crash ax and do the same thing as what happened duing the fed ex deal. No I think it's a good thing to have FFDO's just not dumb A__ FFDO's.

WD.

Yea, those FedEx pilots all lived because they all could defend themselves from an ax, if that same idiot had a gun, those 3 pilots would all be dead in 3 quick shots, so my point is that yes there is an ax that you at least have a chance to defend yourself against, but what defense do you have to a gun? None, it would be quick.

As to this incident, What if that bullet hit the windshild at altitude? think about that, rapid decom., and possible crash all do to pilot error, I hope that I am not on that flight

Just like the other guy said, pilots should just stick to flying, too many things happen and can go wrong just flying, worrying about shooting someone in the cabin should not be the pilots job, we are trained to fly not shoot people, that is why the door should not be opened, and as I stated, no other country allows its pilots to carry guns, so for you FFDO's that think that the US will force other countries to allow us to carry weapons, keep dreaming

 

[Oh-ryan]

Dude, when I say "Let's shoot the ILS" it's just an expression!

Put that thing away for heaven's sake!

 

[CatfishVT9]

I like the program but I sure know a bunch of them that shouldn't be carrying a gun. There's one in our crashpad and I try to never turn my back on him......

 

[Kharma Police]

Yea, those FedEx pilots all lived because they all could defend themselves from an ax, if that same idiot had a gun, those 3 pilots would all be dead in 3 quick shots, so my point is that yes there is an ax that you at least have a chance to defend yourself against, but what defense do you have to a gun? None, it would be quick.

As to this incident, What if that bullet hit the windshild at altitude? think about that, rapid decom., and possible crash all do to pilot error, I hope that I am not on that flight

Just like the other guy said, pilots should just stick to flying, too many things happen and can go wrong just flying, worrying about shooting someone in the cabin should not be the pilots job, we are trained to fly not shoot people, that is why the door should not be opened, and as I stated, no other country allows its pilots to carry guns, so for you FFDO's that think that the US will force other countries to allow us to carry weapons, keep dreaming

The only reason Auburn Calloway (FedEx wacko) didn't use a gun was to let the investigators think it was an accident, not a murder/suicide. His thinking was that bullet holes would have shown up during the post mortem investigation.

 

[CaravanMan]

Dude, when I say "Let's shoot the ILS" it's just an expression!

Put that thing away for heaven's sake!

LOL :laugh::laugh:

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Yea, those FedEx pilots all lived because they all could defend themselves from an ax, if that same idiot had a gun, those 3 pilots would all be dead in 3 quick shots, so my point is that yes there is an ax that you at least have a chance to defend yourself against, but what defense do you have to a gun? None, it would be quick.

As to this incident, What if that bullet hit the windshild at altitude? think about that, rapid decom., and possible crash all do to pilot error, I hope that I am not on that flight

Just like the other guy said, pilots should just stick to flying, too many things happen and can go wrong just flying, worrying about shooting someone in the cabin should not be the pilots job, we are trained to fly not shoot people, that is why the door should not be opened, and as I stated, no other country allows its pilots to carry guns, so for you FFDO's that think that the US will force other countries to allow us to carry weapons, keep dreaming

Ok I understand your point and I contend that had the FFDO program been in effect on Sept 10th then we would remember Sept 11 as the day that followed because the terrorists would have been shot and killed and the twin towers would still be standing today!!

No system is ever going to be perfect that much is for sure but with that 40cal at your side you sure can level the playing field. Many of those guys are taught hand to hand combat most of todays pilots are not. I say keep the firearms and teach the idiots how to use them properly.

Now this would have never happend if the program didn't have some of those dumb a$$ restrictions. Allow the pilots to keep the firearm on at all times then there would be no need to store between flights. All that handling of the firearm is what caused this. TSA needs to get it's head out of it's rear and reasses this policy.

WD

 

[Ticker]

name one other airline in the world that allows guns in the cockpit, the answer is easy NONE not even El El allows its pilots to carry guns in the cockpit, and thay have someone trying to blow them up daily, so why are we any different? Plus, an FFDO is not allowed to carry a gun Int'l, if anything, using it on an int'l flight is more of a plus than domestic, but no other country will allow a pilot to carry a gun in the cockpit, so what is the point, to look cool having a gun, I am not against guns, I own 3, I just don't believe a gun belongs in a cockpit.

Plus the idea that just because you are an FFDO excludes you from having your bags go through the x-ray machine is pure BS, what makes them so special, that makes it too easy for one of them to transport illegal stuff, that day will come, then things will change again

I dare say El Al's security protocalls are far more thorough than ours. They were consulted after 9/11 and gave up on us. Our leaders didn't have the stones to make the changes outlined by El Al. So now we have the same people who let the haji's through on 9/11 hasseling pilots.

Name another country that had 4 airliners used as flying bombs in a one day coordinated attack.

El Al has far better security on each and every flight. The FAM's are on less than 10% of US flights.

The FFDO program is addressing international flights and getting agreements and protocalls established with other countries. FFDO's will be there soon. 9/11 planes we all know were domestic flights.

Who said anything about looking cool? The gun is concealed. Period. We have no idea of the circumstances behind this incident.

I'll bet a million dollars you wouldn't hang a "Gun Free Cockpit" sign on your door or the door of the airliner you or your family was on.

Plus the idea that just because you are an FFDO excludes you from having your bags go through the x-ray machine is pure BS, what makes them so special, that makes it too easy for one of them to transport illegal stuff, that day will come, then things will change again

Any professional pilot could find dozens of ways to circumvent security if they wanted to. I highly doubt that there's a risk of FFDO smugglers.

 

[Ticker]

Guns left the cockpit long before 2001. The FAR's and CAR's never addressed the issue. What ended it was the X-raying of our Flight Kit bags by security. That started some time after the frequent diversions to Cuba started. A long time ago.

I didn't say pilots were packing, I said it was in the FAR's...and it was. Something like..."unless authorized by the certificate holder (airline), no pilot may have in their possession on the flight deck." It had been there ever since the first Mail flights.

There was a fairly substantial re-write of the regs in the late 90's, 2000 or early 2001 and that particular part of the reg was removed. Prior to that, it was in there. Sorry, I don't collect out of date FAR books. You'll have to prove me wrong on that one.

...and yes, you are correct...the guy who told me about when he carried was flying through the 60's and 70's.

 

[dash8driver]

no other country allows its pilots to carry guns

thats awesome reasoning! i cant wait to be like everyone else!

 

[get2flyin]

The cardinal rule for FFDO's, "Don't take the gun out of the holster unless A) You're at home and you need to load or clean it. B) You're on a private or public range practicing. C) You're on the flight-deck as a working pilot and a threat is entering the cockpit. PERIOD!"

It doesn't go off when it's in the holster. End of story. This genius just couldn't keep his hands off of it. I say he gets thrown out of the program and gets the boot from USAir.

Don't worry, ALPA will get him his job back. Wait, USAPA will save his jo......oops, never mind.

 

[Ticker]

It doesn't go off when it's in the holster. End of story. This genius just couldn't keep his hands off of it. I say he gets thrown out of the program and gets the boot from USAir.

Couldn't agree more.

Don't worry, ALPA will get him his job back. Wait, USAPA will save his jo......oops, never mind.

Man I hope you're wrong!

 

[viper548]

Was this an eastie or westie?

 

[Muppets]

Every FFDO I fly with has the same douchbag attitude....
1. They think all middle eastern people are out to get them.
2. They think Osama and his friends are locking in on their MCO-DFW turn
3. They think they are Bruce Willis in Die Hard 12, carrying 137 rounds of ammo
4. They think they get through security faster, while in reality they wait for Barney Fife to come over from concourse Z, while Im already at the gate.
5. "Im protecting my constitutional rights" - moron


In reality.....if Osama wants to take down another he will pay your ramper 30,000 to throw his "backpack" on the flight. How well is your gun with 137 rounds work now?

 

[Kharma Police]

Every FFDO I fly with has the same douchbag attitude....
1. They think all middle eastern people are out to get them.
2. They think Osama and his friends are locking in on their MCO-DFW turn
3. They think they are Bruce Willis in Die Hard 12, carrying 137 rounds of ammo
4. They think they get through security faster, while in reality they wait for Barney Fife to come over from concourse Z, while Im already at the gate.
5. "Im protecting my constitutional rights" - moron


In reality.....if Osama wants to take down another he will pay your ramper 30,000 to throw his "backpack" on the flight. How well is your gun with 137 rounds work now?

Guns don't kill people, I kill people.......

 

[Ticker]

Every FFDO I fly with has the same douchbag attitude....
1. They think all middle eastern people are out to get them.
2. They think Osama and his friends are locking in on their MCO-DFW turn
3. They think they are Bruce Willis in Die Hard 12, carrying 137 rounds of ammo
4. They think they get through security faster, while in reality they wait for Barney Fife to come over from concourse Z, while Im already at the gate.
5. "Im protecting my constitutional rights" - moron.

Funny, the FFDO's I've met are exactly the opposite. If you think someone wanting to protect his constitutional rights is a moron, you could always emigrate to Venezuela. 'Ol Hugo's looking for a few good sheep.

In reality.....if Osama wants to take down another he will pay your ramper 30,000 to throw his "backpack" on the flight. How well is your gun with 137 rounds work now?

Maybe, maybe not.

Our airlines ARE being probed. They have been since 9/11. The FFDO program was devised as a last ditch effort to protect the airplane from being taken over. If another US airliner is taken over, our military will shoot it down. Kookie Cokie Roberts was posed with this same point and she still couldn't bring herself to admit that the FFDO program is better idea than an airliner being used as a manned missile or being shot down "because I just don't like guns".

 

[Ticker]

Dude, when I say "Let's shoot the ILS" it's just an expression!

Put that thing away for heaven's sake!

Now thats funny!!! :beer: