Northwest to shrink and get rid of more DC9's than planned?

[jke406]

I also read that Hilary Clinton is an alien.

But I guess that would explain why Bill is married to her.

Probably just as accurate as your rumor, 123.

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

Interesting numbers from the annual reports:

Delta fleet total: 453
Delta MX expense: $776,000,000

NWA fleet total: 356
NWA MX expense: $796,000,000

 

[PCL_128]

What do you expect when you've got a bunch of incompetent SCAB mechanics working on your airplanes?

 

[jke406]

not a PCL fan. but he's got a point there.

 

[Redmeat]

Interesting numbers from the annual reports:

Delta fleet total: 453
Delta MX expense: $776,000,000

NWA fleet total: 356
NWA MX expense: $796,000,000

Point taken, Delta doesn't maintain the fleet too well?

I see a lot of airstart carts hooked up to your 88/90's at dtw. I guess not maintaining the APU's is one way to save on MX costs?

 

[i fly boxes]

i will probably never get hired at NWA because i work at Pinnacle, but I wish the NWA guys the best of luck. I hope you pull through independent

 

[JoeMerchant]

What do you expect when you've got a bunch of incompetent SCAB mechanics working on your airplanes?

....and why didn't ALPA honor the mechanic strike?

 

[General Lee]

Well if NWA guys get furloughed when NWA aircraft are getting parked, isn't that fair?

Delta is still hiring to staff the 777's...quote]


I thought that I had read somewhere that DAL was going to stop hiring now, with the possibility of starting again next fall/winter. Isn't there a posibility of displacements DAL with the parking of the 20 mainline aircraft (md88's and 757's)

We supposedly will hire another 100 total for the next 3 classes, and then stop until Fall. A displacement probably won't happen, since it costs the company money to pay for moves (family moves). So, what they would probably do is have a normally scheduled bid and just not fill in for the people going to other planes. IF 20 MD88 Captains got bids to 767 Captain, they may only award 5 MD88 Captains as backfill.

We do have 6 777LRs coming in a 3 month span (Dec 31st to Mar 31st) and we crew those planes at 19 crews per plane. We crew an MD88 at 5.5 crews per plane. Those 777s cause a lot more hiring and movement upward.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Point taken, Delta doesn't maintain the fleet too well?

I see a lot of airstart carts hooked up to your 88/90's at dtw. I guess not maintaining the APU's is one way to save on MX costs?

Compared to your DC9s? And maybe those are warm air carts for the cabin? How close are you getting to our MD88s and 90s? Security!!! Help!!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

i will probably never get hired at NWA because i work at Pinnacle, but I wish the NWA guys the best of luck. I hope you pull through independent

If DL and NWA do merge, your job could be at risk. I can understand why you would want NWA to stay independent.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[123]

We supposedly will hire another 100 total for the next 3 classes, and then stop until Fall. A displacement probably won't happen, since it costs the company money to pay for moves (family moves). So, what they would probably do is have a normally scheduled bid and just not fill in for the people going to other planes. IF 20 MD88 Captains got bids to 767 Captain, they may only award 5 MD88 Captains as backfill.

We do have 6 777LRs coming in a 3 month span (Dec 31st to Mar 31st) and we crew those planes at 19 crews per plane. We crew an MD88 at 5.5 crews per plane. Those 777s cause a lot more hiring and movement upward.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Wow, 19 crews per 777, that is high. What are the work rules on that that cause the crewing to be so high (do you do a double crew on most/all of the trips?)

Thanks,

Thanks for the reasoned reply.

 

[patrickdc9]

Superpilot....

You going to be eating crow my friend. The numbers on the DC9's are astonishingly bad.

Just to put this argument to rest regarding the DC9's: First, a point worth clarifying regarding NWA scope is that when our narrow body floor is set next
month, the Co. can go 10 below the floor based on 90 76 seaters at Compass and Mesaba. Since they
are only ordering 72 76 seaters, NWA can go an additional 18 below the floor for a total of 28.
This allows NW to go below the 68 forecast for the end of 08' without penalty. We had 92 at the beginning of 08' minus 28 would put us at ~64 without having to start parking 76 seaters. So unless Northwest reopens the contract for negotiation, there isn't much room to park more DC9s.

Secondly, everyone thinks the DC9 is so fuel inefficient compared to more modern aircraft. The truth is that the DC9 has the same fuel efficiency on flights under 1 hr as an A319. It becomes much more ineffiencient on flights over 1 hour. Plus consider that they are paid for and the revenue/flight hr is not bad.

 

[i fly boxes]

I believe all regionals could be at risk, could pinnacle be at risk, yes. The only thing going for us is that we have 10 year contracts with both airlines. Those contracts could easily be thrown away in some way shape or form, but its a start. But back to the thread topic.....

 

[formerdal]

Wow, 19 crews per 777, that is high. What are the work rules on that that cause the crewing to be so high (do you do a double crew on most/all of the trips?)

Thanks,

Thanks for the reasoned reply.

All our beyond 12 hour flights are crewed at 2 Capt. and 2 FO's.

 

[General Lee]

Just to put this argument to rest regarding the DC9's: First, a point worth clarifying regarding NWA scope is that when our narrow body floor is set next
month, the Co. can go 10 below the floor based on 90 76 seaters at Compass and Mesaba. Since they
are only ordering 72 76 seaters, NWA can go an additional 18 below the floor for a total of 28.
This allows NW to go below the 68 forecast for the end of 08' without penalty. We had 92 at the beginning of 08' minus 28 would put us at ~64 without having to start parking 76 seaters. So unless Northwest reopens the contract for negotiation, there isn't much room to park more DC9s.

Secondly, everyone thinks the DC9 is so fuel inefficient compared to more modern aircraft. The truth is that the DC9 has the same fuel efficiency on flights under 1 hr as an A319. It becomes much more ineffiencient on flights over 1 hour. Plus consider that they are paid for and the revenue/flight hr is not bad.

Can the DC9s and A319s pay for their own fuel? Frontier is selling 2 A319s and 2 A318s to a Russian carrier, and getting larger A320s in the meantime (a previous order). Maybe those planes can't carry enough passengers to pay for the extra fuel costs. The MD88 can carry 142 pax supposedly, and maybe that is enough to help pay for fuel and fixed costs. I know we are parking some MD88s and a few older 757s, but maybe because they are coming up on their lease expirations. If you own the planes outright (like the DC9s) and they cannot pay for the fuel, then what would happen to them?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PCL_128]

....and why didn't ALPA honor the mechanic strike?

ALPA tried to work with AMFA. ALPA wanted to set up a coalition with all of the NWA employee groups so they could all work together and stand behind each other. AMFA's response? "We don't need any help from a bunch of pilots. We can handle things on our own." So, AMFA went their own way. They handled things on their own, and they suffered unemployment on their own.

 

[FDJ2]

LOL...the VERY LAST place I would troll for people-in-the-know is Airliners.net. Way to pick a "winner".

Fact is, starting in May, NWA can't park any more DC-9s, or any narrowbodies for that matter, without parking 76 seaters.

Nu

How many hours are they required to put on those jets to be in compliance with your PWA? What constitutes parking a jet? What if they keep the jet on their certificate and just don't fly it?

 

[General Lee]

All our beyond 12 hour flights are crewed at 2 Capt. and 2 FO's.

Yes, and those types of flights are what 777LRs are designed to do. We get 6 in 3 months time, and supposedly will have up to 40 thanks to our 738 options being able to trade up for 777s.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Sedona16]

Along the lines of this original thread....

Northwest Airlines Executive VP and CFO Dave Davis, also speaking at the conference, said the carrier is undertaking "a thorough review of capacity with a particular view on the domestic market" but has not made any decisions. He predicted that cuts could come "beginning with the fall schedule" and noted that NWA could decide to increase the number of DC-9s it plans to retire over the 40 already scheduled to be grounded. Its DC-9 fleet is slated to stand at 68 at year end, but "there's an opportunity to get even smaller from a DC-9 perspective later in 2008," he revealed.

 

[FDJ2]

Interesting numbers from the annual reports:

Delta fleet total: 453
Delta MX expense: $776,000,000

NWA fleet total: 356
NWA MX expense: $796,000,000

35 year old DC-9s and 25 year old 747s will do that to you.

 

[Superpilot92]

Just to put this argument to rest regarding the DC9's: First, a point worth clarifying regarding NWA scope is that when our narrow body floor is set next
month, the Co. can go 10 below the floor based on 90 76 seaters at Compass and Mesaba. Since they
are only ordering 72 76 seaters, NWA can go an additional 18 below the floor for a total of 28.
This allows NW to go below the 68 forecast for the end of 08' without penalty. We had 92 at the beginning of 08' minus 28 would put us at ~64 without having to start parking 76 seaters. So unless Northwest reopens the contract for negotiation, there isn't much room to park more DC9s.

Secondly, everyone thinks the DC9 is so fuel inefficient compared to more modern aircraft. The truth is that the DC9 has the same fuel efficiency on flights under 1 hr as an A319. It becomes much more inefficient on flights over 1 hour. Plus consider that they are paid for and the revenue/flight hr is not bad.

Good luck getting that point through. I cant tell you how many times i have tried to explain this to the DAL guys and they conveniently ignore it. i think its because some have no real concept of scope clause, wonder why?

 

[FDJ2]

Point taken, Delta doesn't maintain the fleet too well?

I see a lot of airstart carts hooked up to your 88/90's at dtw. I guess not maintaining the APU's is one way to save on MX costs?

Perhaps we can compare performance numbers such as on time performance and completion.

 

[Redmeat]

Compared to your DC9s? And maybe those are warm air carts for the cabin? How close are you getting to our MD88s and 90s? Security!!! Help!!

Bye Bye--General Lee

I have to taxi by OUR BC concourse everyday which is where 'YALL' park...and it ain't conditioned air hooked up bro...it's an aux power unit for a start. I didn't know you could blow air in the cabin via the start valve?

You sure you're a pilot General?

'Yall' go back to the Smith Terminal...it's more like ATL anyway.

 

[General Lee]

I have to taxi by OUR BC concourse everyday which is where 'YALL' park...and it ain't conditioned air hooked up bro...it's an aux power unit for a start. I didn't know you could blow air in the cabin via the start valve?

You sure you're a pilot General?

'Yall' go back to the Smith Terminal...it's more like ATL anyway.

Sorry I don't go to Detoilet like you do. I frequent places like Rio and Vienna. Have fun in Rochester and Lansing.

And, I have never flown the MD88, and hopefully plan not to. Face it, your diesel 9 sucks. Do you have to crank start it?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Mookie]

your plane swallows...

seriously...that's the best you can come up with General???

going to still make fun of me "being in ANC"? does my aircraft "suck" too.

get a clue, dude.

Mookie

 

[DTW320]

Sorry I don't go to Detoilet like you do.

Yeah, no kidding Robert E....he stands up!

 

[FDJ2]

I have to taxi by OUR BC concourse everyday which is where 'YALL' park...and it ain't conditioned air hooked up bro...it's an aux power unit for a start. I didn't know you could blow air in the cabin via the start valve?

You sure you're a pilot General?

'Yall' go back to the Smith Terminal...it's more like ATL anyway.

It's probably just a more modern aircraft than you are used to. I haven't flown the 88 in many years and I'm not sure what you were looking at, or where it was connected, but consider that the 88 can use three sources of air for on ground air conditioning.

Ground Sources for Air Conditioning
There are three methods used to cool the aircraft on the ground:

• using a conditioned air source connected at either the left side of the fuselage at the mid cabin area or at the right rear of the aircraft.

• using the APU pneumatics to operate the packs or,

• using an external pneumatic source connected at the aft left side of the fuselage to run the packs.​

 

[General Lee]

It's probably just a more modern aircraft than you are used to. I haven't flown the 88 in many years and I'm not sure what you were looking at, or where it was connected, but consider that the 88 can use three sources of air for on ground air conditioning.

Ground Sources for Air Conditioning
There are three methods used to cool the aircraft on the ground:​

• using a conditioned air source connected at either the left side of the fuselage at the mid cabin area or at the right rear of the aircraft.​

• using the APU pneumatics to operate the packs or,​

• using an external pneumatic source connected at the aft left side of the fuselage to run the packs.​

Come on FDJ2, Redmeat is an expert on all planes. During massive snow storms he gets to examine planes stuck in the snow drifts.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Sedona16]

And yet more from another message board. I couldnt get the excell doc to paste here:

I contend that NWA will start to ground its DC9s and possibly their 747s unless they can raise ticket prices to cover their inefficient fuel costs. I attached an excel file that shows the cost/block hour of the NWA aircraft at $3/gal fuel. (It was actually higher this week.) Their 100 seat DC9-30 costs more that a 180 seat 757.

Their 747-400s fuel is costing $11,229/hour while our 777-200 is about $5800/hour.

I expect their "cost cutting" announcement next week.

 

[General Lee]

your plane swallows...

seriously...that's the best you can come up with General???

going to still make fun of me "being in ANC"? does my aircraft "suck" too.

get a clue, dude.

Mookie

No way, you get to fly to Hawaii being an ANC crew. Good for you. Redmeat gets to fly to Minot and every once and awhile gets to go to Orlando via Flint or Grand Rapids. Awesome.

As far as making fun of your airplane, I hope to be a Captain on the 737-700 or 738 soon. (after my 9 month hold is up for equipment change) How close are you to Captain? I can't wait to fly it in the left seat of the 73NG, I had 1 year on it as an FO. Tootles.


Bye Bye--General Lee