I don't think the majority of pilots could compete in the high dollar world of plastic surgery. C'mon... compare what it takes to become a pilot and a doctor in terms of competition and education... most airline pilots couldn't cut it.... (no pun intended...
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In addition most doctors are NOT living the high life as a plastic dr. to the pretty CA people...
The insurance companies are controlling doctors..
Nice try....but BAD example...
Bad because it doesn't fit the point you were trying to make, not because it doesn't apply.
You asked the question: 1. Is there a better profession? Who's got it better?
You got an answer that PERFECTLY answered the question, EXACTLY as it was asked. You didn't qualify it by saying the same time in training, or any other such restriction.
Be careful what you ask for, you might get it and have no defense for it (like in this example).
Personally, I equate my professional level exactly to that of a specialized surgeon. I spent 4 years of college, 3 years afterwards getting my advanced ratings and getting basic on-the-job experience (CFI, CFII, MEI, flight instructing, then flying King Airs and getting my ATP), then another 9 years flying various jets, larger and more specialized, staying current and learning new equipment (EFIS, FMS, etc) until I finally got on with a major, then have to keep studying to maintain my skillset, occassionally learning new knowledge (new type rating) as I move forward.
If you don't want to value your professional skills as highly, that's your business.
Plastic surgeons do elective surgury and are small business owners... very different from skilled hourly labor... after docotors are done cutting thier is still allot of work to do..managing the business.... aftrer you fly your trip do you want to go to the office and do more work?
I often do, working 2 hours for every 1 I get paid. I doubt plastic surgeons do the same; they hire people to manage their offices if they're halfway successful. Why do I believe this? Because we have surgeons in our family. I see how they manage their businesses (2 of them are independent).
Did doctors get a notice that mal-practice insurance was going to soar and make thier professions more difficult?
Our professional difficulties aren't unique... why should we be any different?
Their malpractice insurance didn't cut their salaries in half, cut their retirement by 60-80%, and gut their retirement insurance benefits.
Somehow I fail to see the similarities in suffering.
Let's see...
Ever heard of Braniff?
PanAm?
Eastern?
these pilots got thier professions handed to them....
Pilots have ups and down with our free markets system for the entire course of the airline industry...
Look at the maritime industry....
Yep. 3 airlines failed. 7 major airlines were going great most of my life until 2000 or so. Not great odds but, again, if pilots believed their careers were going the way of Braniff, how many would join this marketplace to begin with?
As you said... you picked bad examples. No one plans to have a mediocre career because of an airline closure. You were talking about "managing expectations", not "planning for your airline to fail at age 50 and have no retirement or backup plan the last 10 years of your professional life".
Well some of us are going to stick around and find out... work for positive change.. for those of you that intend to quit this profession because you want a better return ... go for it.... just don't get angry when Radj, Juan and Xiang welcome you aboard with thier call center accents...
We weren't talking about ATC centers.
agreed. What do you suggest...
ALPA rearrange their priorities.
Instead of fighting so hard for upper wages, fight to limit the supply and mandate the minimum experience level of pilots, further restrict scope, and mandate a minimum compensation level for ALL carriers, and Prater (or whoever is in charge when they come time to ratify) refuses to allow them to be ratified (which is allowed per the ALPA bylaws), until they meet those minimum levels.
It would require some re-write of the bylaws to force ALPA National will on the individual MEC's, but that's what is going to be required to take the power away from the individual MEC's run by super-senior pilots and force change from the basics (limiting supply of pilots.
Next round, with a limited supply of pilots and tighter scope, you work on wages and retirement.
Withholding ALPA signature on any document that doesn't meet those minimum levels is going to anger the senior pilots at those airlines and will be hard, but if pilots can't help themselves by setting goals that help the industry and can't be bothered to take the initiative, then someone's going to have to do it for them, even if they don't like the results short-term.
That is just the way "those who control the distribution of wealth" like it..... why should it change?
If you had power and control for decades/centuries would you give it up? If so ...why?
This way you take it out of the control of the NMB as well as the individual MEC's and set policy "minimums" for all contracts moving forward.
Completely redesign the goals starting from the ground-up. The gulf is going to be VERY wide for this first contract, but there's NOTHING the NMB can do to force a change in ALPA policy. They can tell ALPA their demands are "unrealistic" for that carrier but, eventually, when that 10-year release point DOES come, the carrier will either cave and figure out how to compete with the new restrictions or it will die.
Then the next carrier takes the same hardline stance.
The time for half-measures has come and gone.
Actually it wasn't well said... it sounded good but there is no pragmatic application or in depth understanding......
thus we spin our wheels....
I have yet to see a realistic approach from ANY of the ALPA cheerleaders. I'm no longer involved in ALPA. You are. Why are YOU spinning your wheels?
Just because you don't like the answers doesn't automatically mean there is no in-depth understanding. What I see in people like you is that there is no true desire to fix the situation, despite how ugly the fix will be. And if it does get fixed (which I highly doubt), it WILL be ugly.
Personally, I'm calling this the "lost generation" of aviation; those who believed in the dream, worked hard to be a part of it, then watched their profession reduced to a shadow of its former self while they sat by powerless to change it as their union did nothing.
