McCain to lose pilot vote block.

[uba757]

On the entire insurance question, I will use myself as an example. My first year at my company I made $31920.00, The insurance to cover my family cost me $8400.00 for the year, not including Dental. That means that 27% of my paychecks went to insurance. The mortgage on my home cost me $11040.00 which was about 34% of my salary, my mortgage cost me only 7% for the year, now I think that is outrageous. I just got laid-off in January and I got the Cobra paperwork informing me that if I want to keep the insurance coverage active, I must pay $1250.00 a month, not including Dental coverage. So tell me how can my Medical coverage be more expensive than my mortgage. How do I cover my family, I have 2 small children, while I interview and get a new job? uba757

 

[PCL_128]

No there may have been room in the CASM to cover the outrageous 35% increase the pilots were asking for, but it would have made the profit margin so low that access o the financial markets would have been limited. Not mention if pilot get that much money, why are the mechs FA's, and Cust Serv people going to sit back and ask for nothing?

My salary shouldn't be used to subsidize their poor business practices. If they can't make money by paying us at least inflation-adjusted raises, then they need to find a way to increase the price point without reducing the load factor. If they can't, then too bad. I really don't care what their profit margin is. Not my job to worry about that. I fly airplanes, and I expect at least an inflation-adjusted salary for it.

In 2001 the average UAL pilot flew 38 hrs and got paid for 82. That is bad management

No, those are fake statistics that management spread around to get gullible fools such as yourself to believe them. The fact that you actually believe that crap is amazing. Why don't you ask a few random UAL pilots how many hours they actually flew in 2001. You'll be hard pressed to find a single one that managed to only fly 38 hours in a month.

 

[tittyjet]

By the way. You might want to re-read the Constitution, though I doubt you have ever read it in the first place.
Hidden in there is the statement that the enumerated rights are NOT meant to be exclusive.
In other words, the founders believed there are many inalienable rights, only some of which were spelled out. In fact, some founders argued against adding the bill of rights, because they feared that over time the list would be seen as exhaustive, when it was only meant to be exemplary. Sadly, their fears have been realized by the wingnuts. But you knew that didn't you?

Yes, how 'bout those dogs?!?!?! Did pretty well this year, didn't they???

How bout them Dawgs?

PS There are thousands of examples of insurance companies who deny life-saving coverage. But you knew that too.

As a matter of fact, I have read the Constitution - extensively - B.A.: Political Science and Theology , summa cum laude, Mercer University, 1994. I'll be happy to fwd you a copy of the transcripts.

Let's see here, lad, who wanted the Bill of Rights??? Jefferson, Washington, Madison, et al.

As a matter of fact, Hamilton was about the only fruit (and a fruit, he truly was) who opposed it. See Federalist 84. For a strong argument, go find Robert Yates' (not the NASCAR icon, sport) Anti-Federalist No. 84, penned under the pseudonym (for your NASCAR-brained edification, a pseudonym is an asumed pen-name) Brutus.

The framers were all extremely self-reliant people; I doubt very seriously they (especially Jefferson, Washington, and damn sure Madison) would want to seize someone else's property (taxation) in order to pay for an individual's healthcare.

As for enumerated rights, reread the 9th Amendment, lad; (The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people).

I can assure you that when certain non-enumerated rights were retained by the States and individuals, socialized healthcare was not one of them.

 

[pilotyip]

only know what I read in the papers

My salary shouldn't be used to subsidize their poor business practices. If they can't make money by paying us at least inflation-adjusted raises, then they need to find a way to increase the price point without reducing the load factor. If they can't, then too bad. I really don't care what their profit margin is. Not my job to worry about that. I fly airplanes, and I expect at least an inflation-adjusted salary for it. No, those are fake statistics that management spread around to get gullible fools such as yourself to believe them. The fact that you actually believe that crap is amazing. Why don't you ask a few random UAL pilots how many hours they actually flew in 2001. You'll be hard pressed to find a single one that managed to only fly 38 hours in a month.

Mcgraw-Hill Aviation Daily Reports. Crew hours paid verus flown 2001 UAL at the botttom under 50%, and SWA JB at the top around 80%. It was bad mamangement to agreeto those terms that lead to BK. Again with all your knowledge please come over to management and solve all of the airline porblems.

 

[uba757]

Pilotyip you are a real peace of work, not to use other terms, How the hell do you even insinuate that the UAL BK was the fault of the pilots. It was the fault of Management types like YOU. It is amazing that someone would even insinuate such an absurd statement. The pilots at UAL are making less money now, so what do we blame the poor performance of UAL on now. By the way How is your retirement fund doing right now? are you going to have enough put away when you retire. God some people are just not meant to be able to make any sense when they speak. uba757

 

[Whataburger]

In reality why should he care about the professional airline pilot contingent? How many active 121 pilots are there? If I were campaigning, I wouldn't give a crap about a group of only 50,000 folks. That's a slim margin to win the entire election on.

Plus I have been to BOD's. As all the alpa pilots dance around with their democratic campign signs while wearing their alpaPAC pins, many of them will vote conservative. FACT.

 

[pipe]

UAL pilots have not had a raise in six years. That takes the pay cuts of Sept 11 to about 60%. If anyone thinks that the pilots are the problem with the bottom line you are a fu*king lunatic.

PIPE

 

[PBRstreetgang]

What am I?

Clueless...
PBR

 

[pilotyip]

Caused by something, and Hey be nice

Pilotyip you are a real peace of work, not to use other terms, How the hell do you even insinuate that the UAL BK was the fault of the pilots. It was the fault of Management types like YOU. It is amazing that someone would even insinuate such an absurd statement. The pilots at UAL are making less money now, so what do we blame the poor performance of UAL on now. By the way How is your retirement fund doing right now? are you going to have enough put away when you retire. God some people are just not meant to be able to make any sense when they speak. uba757

Hey be nice. We are suppose to able to share things here without going to name calling etc. But see you have not done much posting so you may not have gotten into the swing of things yet. BK too much going out not enough coming in. What did cause the BK at UAL? 96% load not break even? Too many airplanes types? Passengers riding other airlines with cheaper fares? passengers electing not to fly UAL because of so many cancellations in 2000? Loss of first class passengers due to Internet flight bookings? What was the cause? Again if you have he answer it is your duty to come into management and solve those problems.

 

[MountainFreak]

As a matter of fact, I have read the Constitution - extensively - B.A.: Political Science and Theology , summa cum laude, Mercer University, 1994. I'll be happy to fwd you a copy of the transcripts.

Let's see here, lad, who wanted the Bill of Rights??? Jefferson, Washington, Madison, et al.

As a matter of fact, Hamilton was about the only fruit (and a fruit, he truly was) who opposed it. See Federalist 84. For a strong argument, go find Robert Yates' (not the NASCAR icon, sport) Anti-Federalist No. 84, penned under the pseudonym (for your NASCAR-brained edification, a pseudonym is an asumed pen-name) Brutus.

The framers were all extremely self-reliant people; I doubt very seriously they (especially Jefferson, Washington, and damn sure Madison) would want to seize someone else's property (taxation) in order to pay for an individual's healthcare.

As for enumerated rights, reread the 9th Amendment, lad; (The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people).

I can assure you that when certain non-enumerated rights were retained by the States and individuals, socialized healthcare was not one of them.

It appears you have bought off on Federalist Society propaganda.

Hamilton was afraid of exactly what has happened. He did not want people to come to believe that the enumerated rights were the only rights. He was able to convince Madision, and as a result the 9th amendment was included in the BOR. It states in plain language that there are, in fact, many other fundamental individual rights. The 10th was added for similar reasons, but to protect the States.


We have no idea the founders' views on modern healthcare woes, that is a ridiculous argument. It is irrelevant anyway, since healthcare is a matter of good policy, not of rights.

Don't call me lad. I am older than you, and have two advanced degrees. Two of my schools were top of their fields, the other one was in Georgia. (TIC, I know that Georgia has great schools, including Mercer). You brought up education, though I don't know why.

Sorry for all the thread drift, but to summarize:

-We need massive changes to our healthcare system.

-Airline management will screw pilots at every turn, and use arguments like "high CASM" to line their own pockets.

-Mercer university professors were unable to teach at least one student the nuances of the Constitution, the Federalists, and Anti-Federalists.

-McCain is one of my heroes, but there is no freaking way I will vote for him. The country can't take another Republican, and pilots can't take his policies.

-I'm done, I need to do something constructive.

 

[skydash]

http://hilldabeast.com/hillpics/dr_evil_hillary.jpg

 

[WabiSabi]

Pharmaceuticals could be made cheaper.....but if you take out the huge profit motive, you will have less effort exerted to find cures for things like Alzheimers and Cancer.....Whether the socialists want to admit it or not, profit is a huge motivator for things that are good......Most of us get out of bed and go to work to make money......Same thing for the pharmacetuicals.......Big profits are big motives for big cures......

The motive for big profits also makes pharmaceuticals less accessible. Those "big cures" you speak of will not do any good if they're only available to those that can afford them.

The prime directive of health care is to provide health care, not profit. Maybe that's just me.

Wrong analogy grasshopper.......Neither driving nor health care are "mandatory"......If being financially responsible for your car accident is mandatory, then paying for your health care should be also......If you aren't going to mandate health insurance, then don't mandate car insurance......

Well no, uhm, master, you made the inapplicable analogy in the first place and you're still not even close.

Driving a car is optional. If you don't elect the privilege of driving a car, you don't need insurance.

However, you cannot neglect your own health or you will likely suffer the consequences. In this sense, your body is not optional...unless of course you jump off a bridge or something.

Auto insurance being mandatory (if you want to drive a car) and health insurance not being mandatory have absolutely nothing to do with each other. You're not even in the ball park.

 

[Smarta$$]

All you republican Aholes. Your motives are so clear. It is obvious that it is all about you, f#ck everyone that is less fortunate than you.

For those that dug up those old Mccane bills, thank you. I knew he was anti-labor, but had know idea how anti-pilot he really was.

Airline pilots need to really think about what is really important. Low taxes won't help you if your paycheck does not even keep up with inflation, or you have concessions ram'd down your throat by a republican government.

Besides, how do you propose to pay for this war you love so much. Spend the billions, but don't make me pay for it. The altimate republican hypocricy.

 

[PCL_128]

Mcgraw-Hill Aviation Daily Reports. Crew hours paid verus flown 2001 UAL at the botttom under 50%, and SWA JB at the top around 80%. It was bad mamangement to agreeto those terms that lead to BK.

Again, your information is fake management propaganda.

Again with all your knowledge please come over to management and solve all of the airline porblems.

I'd rather saw off my scrotum with a rusty steak knife than join the lying pack of thieves that you're a part of.

 

[PCL_128]

Again if you have he answer it is your duty to come into management and solve those problems.

My only duty is to fly airplanes.

 

[SaturnPilot]

For those that dug up those old Mccane bills, thank you. I knew he was anti-labor, but had know idea how anti-pilot he really was

Here is some more...this is a questionnaire sent out by ALPA during the 2000 campaign which he answered (he declined to answer the questionnaire this round stating it as his policy, yet he has answered numerous questionnaires from other organizations):

https://crewroom.alpa.org/DesktopMo...iew.aspx?itemid=12542&ModuleId=1068&TabId=202

highlights:

Q: Currently, U.S. law prohibits foreign interests from owning or controlling U.S. airlines. Do you believe this policy should be (a) relaxed, (b) maintained, (c) strengthened or (d) eliminated?
John McCain: I believe this policy should be relaxed. Consistent with the goals of airline deregulation, liberalized competition and entry in the market should enhance service and lower air fares. I have sponsored legislation in the past that would increase the permissible level of foreign investment from 25 to 49 percent...

Q: Foreign airlines are currently prohibited by U.S. law from carrying revenue passengers between U.S. cities, a practice known as cabotage. Do you believe this policy should be (a) relaxed, (b) maintained, (c) strengthened or (d) eliminated.
John McCain: I believe that the U.S. policy on cabotage should be relaxed. Foreign airlines could provide much needed competition on domestic airline routes, which would result in lower fares for the benefit of consumers.

Q: International aviation agreements are not currently included under the jurisdiction of larger trade pacts such as the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) or the North American Free Trade Agreements (NAFTA). This limits the government’s ability to trade U.S. airlines’ international operational rights for non-airline goods and services that are covered by such trade agreements. Do you favor making it possible for international aviation agreements to be negotiated just like other GATT and NAFTA items?
John McCain: In the past, I have opposed measures to include air transportation service under the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade. That said, I would consider and am open to any proposal to promote open skies agreements between the United States and foreign countries.

McCain = a HUGE loss of OUR JOBS!

 

[UALjan15]

Really, what else needs to be said? Any pilot who votes for McCain can take PCL's rusty steak knife and do the job themselves or wait for McCain to do it for them.

 

[pilotyip]

easy way out

My only duty is to fly airplanes.

taking the easy way out, have fun flying

 

[PCL_128]

taking the easy way out, have fun flying

The fact that you consider flying to be the "easy way out" says everything we need to know about you. Go back to your cubicle so you can suck off your supervisor in private.

 

[pilotyip]

Hey be nice!

The fact that you consider flying to be the "easy way out" says everything we need to know about you. Go back to your cubicle so you can suck off your supervisor in private.

Hey you are suppose to be nice, saying bad things is not nice. Flying is the easiest part of my job, the part I don't do as often as I like event though I do it for free and what you don't like flying, you don't have fun doing it? Why are you a pilot. Oh! I forgot you are in for money, respect and recognition. BTW You have PIC type rating in the 9 yet? Have fun

 

[PCL_128]

Hey you are suppose to be nice, saying bad things is not nice.

I don't say nice things to hostile managers.

Flying is the easiest part of my job.......event though I do it for free

You really are a disgrace.

 

[pilotyip]

Hostile

I don't say nice things to hostile managers. You really are a disgrace.

What have I every done that was hostile to you? Have I ever crossed a picket line? Have I ever turned you donw for a job, have I ever stuck you with the Beer tab at the "Wedge". You have never meet me, or worked with or for me, so how are you an expert on my hostility? BTW John is the man, get used to it.

 

[PCL_128]

What have I every done that was hostile to you? Have I ever crossed a picket line? Have I ever turned you donw for a job, have I ever stuck you with the Beer tab at the "Wedge". You have never meet me, or worked with or for me, so how are you an expert on my hostility?

Your anti-pilot and pro-management posts on this board are enough for me to know everything I need to know about you.

 

[pilotyip]

sounds like narrow thinking

Your anti-pilot and pro-management posts on this board are enough for me to know everything I need to know about you.

But then you are really a smart college degree and all, knows about pay for training and the other good airline stuff. I will gladly share a beer at "Wedge" any time you come throught, of course you have to buy the beer, but I will autograph the napkin for you. Basic Indoc graduation party 3-11-08 1800, I am buying the pizza and serving USA Jet "Kool Aid"

 

[FlickerFade]

It appears you have bought off on Federalist Society propaganda.

Hamilton was afraid of exactly what has happened. He did not want people to come to believe that the enumerated rights were the only rights. He was able to convince Madision, and as a result the 9th amendment was included in the BOR. It states in plain language that there are, in fact, many other fundamental individual rights. The 10th was added for similar reasons, but to protect the States.


We have no idea the founders' views on modern healthcare woes, that is a ridiculous argument. It is irrelevant anyway, since healthcare is a matter of good policy, not of rights.

Don't call me lad. I am older than you, and have two advanced degrees. Two of my schools were top of their fields, the other one was in Georgia. (TIC, I know that Georgia has great schools, including Mercer). You brought up education, though I don't know why.

Sorry for all the thread drift, but to summarize:

-We need massive changes to our healthcare system.

-Airline management will screw pilots at every turn, and use arguments like "high CASM" to line their own pockets.

-Mercer university professors were unable to teach at least one student the nuances of the Constitution, the Federalists, and Anti-Federalists.

-McCain is one of my heroes, but there is no freaking way I will vote for him. The country can't take another Republican, and pilots can't take his policies.

-I'm done, I need to do something constructive.

First of all, "tittyjet" Alexander Hamilton was the brains behind the formation of this here Republic. He was by far more influential than Jefferson.

I don't know where men like Hamilton would have taken the Article:1 Section: 8 Clause: 18 (the elastic clause) expansion of federal powers. But I do know this:

In Federalist# 1 he wrote: "a dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of people, than under the forbidding appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of Republics the greatest number have begun their career by paying obsequious court to the people, commencing demagogues and ending tyrants!"

The more money and responsibility for our lives we give to government the less freedom we have.

 

[ROSWELL41]

I just can't understand how Obama asserts that a college education and healthcare are 'rights'. Access to the above should be a right, but getting them for free is certainly not a right. Think about who will be paying for these things when you go vote.

 

[uba757]

Roswell you are right, I rather my money go to fighting more and more unnecessary wars. A College Education and Health Care are not what I pay taxes for, I like the fact that I can subsidise the next President who decides to take out another world leader with lies and innuendos. By the way before you accuse me of being unpatriotic and everything else, I did agree that invading Afghanistan was the right idea, fighting 2 wars at the same time, kind of stupid. uba757

 

[SaturnPilot]

Think about who will be paying for these things when you go vote.

oh I'll be thinking about that...and the fact that I would actually like to have a job that isn't outsourced to cheaper labor, or raped by a hostile NMB (if that would even exist in a McCain administration). Out of those two, I'm going to vote my job. But if you would like to use your vote to make sure that Obama doesn't slightly raise taxes on the richest of the rich, then be my guest.

 

[pipe]

Guys, come on. Yip is management at USA Jet for pete's sake. This is like yelling at a homeless man in D.C. about everything that's wrong in Washington. Yeah, he's "technically" in D.C. but..........

PIPE

 

[UALjan15]

I just can't understand how Obama asserts that a college education and healthcare are 'rights'. Access to the above should be a right, but getting them for free is certainly not a right. Think about who will be paying for these things when you go vote.

Hey, nothing is free. You pay one way or another. Right now we pay for healthcare in a number of ways: medicare taxes, personal outlay for uncovered stuff and copays, and in a very real sense, you pay for it in wages because it costs your company so much to purchase it for you. What we should be concentrating on is efficiency! How much of your total health care dollar actually goes for the actual care? Right now only not even 70%. The rest goes to keep the insurance companies fat and to support their bloated bureaucracy (whose prime purpose is to figure out ways to deny coverage and save money for the mother ship). If this sounds good to you, then go ahead and vote for the status quo.

What should really have you worried is the trend over the past 15 years. Your company's costs to cover you have skyrocketed, as have your own costs, but you're getting less now than you did then. There is no indication of this trend reversing unless the govt gets involved. The market is not correcting this. Add to this the boomer generation reaching the age when their care becomes more expensive, and we have the makings of a real system meltdown.