Pilots Smooth Way for DAL/NWA Merger

[~~~^~~~]

Rumors from the NWA side:
>400 top slots to NWA
>1 to 1.2 ratio integration until the NWA and DAL pilots are zippered together.
>No fences
>Equity participation (7% of the new Co.)
>Seat on the new Delta BOD

Confirmation? Denial?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Rumors are just that rumors. Do you actually expect to get a warm fuzzy from a rumor? Will the rumor that gives you that warm fuzzy be any more valid than the one that didn't?

Look, we are just going to have to have faith in our respective merger committees and elected representatives.

Delving into rumors will only increase the level of anxiety you feel.

Just my two cents.

Excellent point. One thing is for sure, regardless of all of this mental masturbation, the issue will not be resolved here.

 

[JoeMerchant]

It's time for pilots to unite, take care of their brothers/sisters and not only think about themselves.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[IXLR8]

Rumors from the NWA side:
>No fences

Doubt that.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Yeah, it's probably not true.

 

[dtfl]

Doubt that.

I have heard the same. The companies want to do this without fences...and the rumor I heard is there are none, YET.

Two MECs are still battling it out on the list.

As far as the top 400 to the NWA guys..I havent read or heard that. BUT if you look at it from a seat/AC size perspective the 747 has a lot more seats than the 777. Soooo...using that argument shouldn't every A319 and DC9 pilot be below the MD88 guys? Yep. I bet this rumor you posted has the 747 guys on top and the rest of us in a ratio.
Well..that's great if you work at NWA...it won't fly with the DAL pilots.

There is still work to be done....they'll come up with something, I am sure.

 

[FDJ2]

FWIW, a post from another forum indicates that even the MECs are powerless once a list has been drawn up by the merger committee:

That's not how its being done this time around.

In a traditional integration you are correct, however the DAL and NWA pilos are attempting to work these issues out before a PID. If a list is agreed to by both committees, they'll take it to their respective MEC's along with a joint contract for ratification.

The preamble to ALPA's merger policy allows two or more MEC's the option of working out their seniority issues without invoking ALPA's merger policy.

If negotiations fail to produce an integration methodolgy before the merger is announced, you can then expect a PID along with the standard process, including a transition agreement, negotiations, mediation, arbitration and a joint contract negotiation.

 

[Gunfighter]

I have heard the same. The companies want to do this without fences...and the rumor I heard is there are none, YET.

Wouldn't the fences save the company a fortune in training costs? No fences with a merger of vastly different fleets would mean a lot of retraining as pilots bid to/from Delta/NWA equipment. I bet the company is in favor of fences until they get the fleet sorted out.

 

[Diesel-9]

Heard similar rumors but have no idea where most of them got started. One article I read used the term blended list. Just based on list sizes the 1.0 to 1.2 ratio could be that. I have heard of base protections for xx amount of years. Would keep things status quo for awhile. In 5 years NWA side could have 1000-1300+ guys gone which would have date of hires and equipment fairly even when things become unprotected. Optimistic this could work out and make this deal valuable to all.

 

[FDJ2]

Heard similar rumors but have no idea where most of them got started.

I believe that's the case with most rumors. Do yourself a favor and don't put too much stock in those or any other rumors.

 

[johnsonrod]

I agree that rumors can't be trusted - only facts. With that said, Lee Moak at DALPA would be a complete idiot to not provide fences or furlough protection. Why wouldn't you include fences? Makes no sense. I hear a significant number of NWA pilots live in the Atlanta area - how many of those senior pilots would bid onto the 777 or 767-400 immediately and bump Delta pilots off if no fences were established initially? Sounds odd to me.

Lee Moak would forever be known as Lee CHOKE if the Delta pilots were screwed over (especially considering who would be acquiring whom). I guess it's just a roll of the dice...

 

[aircowboy]

Nothing is certain right now for any of the Delta and NWA regionals. Mesaba might or might not exist when the dust settles, but we will not be a holding tank, as we are protected from flow backs.

Currently Mesaba has had no one flow up, so there are no available flow back spots. 6 to 8 months from now, we might have zero flow ups (it's not certain until it happens, as I'm sure the 9 or 12 guys held back all know), or as many as 20-30 maybe. That would mean at most 20-30 spots for flow backs.

Compass has a different deal, so a Compass pilot can address that.

Actually,
Mesaba has had 6 flow ups to date. But lets hope flow back never becomes a necessity.

 

[IXLR8]

OK..just a question. If both sides come up with a deal ...wouldn't this go to a vote amonst the pilot groups?..or is the decision to "go ahead" made by the MEC's?..seems to me you would want the opinion of both pilot groups as to wether or not the "deal" is a fair one...

 

[Diesel-9]

Think that is what the base protections (fences) are for. Think it would be years before you could bid into the other side. Think it was around two years before NWA/Republic merged crews or bid lists. And if and when it opens up, people would only get a bid with an opening. Nobody would bid into and bump someone out of a position. The NWA side will vote on what is presented from the MEC on the seniority list integration.

 

[Flybet3]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I knew I was going to make someone laugh. My work here is done.

 

[dtfl]

Wouldn't the fences save the company a fortune in training costs? No fences with a merger of vastly different fleets would mean a lot of retraining as pilots bid to/from Delta/NWA equipment. I bet the company is in favor of fences until they get the fleet sorted out.

One would think....but I wonder if they are thinking the lack of fences would create a more "harmonious" environment? Everyone on both sides would understand some sort of fence.
WORST case...we should have base protection like Diesel discussed.

 

[Noserider76]

I agree that rumors can't be trusted - only facts. With that said, Lee Moak at DALPA would be a complete idiot to not provide fences or furlough protection. Why wouldn't you include fences? Makes no sense. I hear a significant number of NWA pilots live in the Atlanta area - how many of those senior pilots would bid onto the 777 or 767-400 immediately and bump Delta pilots off if no fences were established initially? Sounds odd to me.

Lee Moak would forever be known as Lee CHOKE if the Delta pilots were screwed over (especially considering who would be acquiring whom). I guess it's just a roll of the dice...

No agreement would allow a pilot to be bumped out of his base or equipment because a more senior person wants his spot, or for the category to be rebid under the new list. That would be prohibitively expensive for the company.

Fences would be used to protect individuals in their bases/equipment from being bumped down the seniority list, unreasonably delaying upgrades in his home base etc. They would also be used to protect current occupants of a base/equipment from being displaced in the event that equipment from the other company is retired, bases closed etc. They are divisive but will be necessary if one is to maintain any kind of quality of life, in my opinion. Good implementation of them would benefit both sides by allowing each person to maintain his or her current situation at least through a transition period. We've just been through 6 years of upheaval. The last thing we all need to worry about is not being able to stay or upgrade where we live.

 

[tomgoodman]

Non-traditional integration

In a traditional integration you are correct, however the DAL and NWA pilos are attempting to work these issues out before a PID. If a list is agreed to by both committees, they'll take it to their respective MEC's along with a joint contract for ratification.

FDJ2,

Thanks for that explanation. If they do this, will membership ratification be required too?

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ2,

Thanks for that explanation. If they do this, will membership ratification be required too?

Well according to the book they should, but nothing is for certain.

I suspect that it will be a packaged deal. The vote will be on both the contract and the methodolgy for integrating the list.

Any contract, letter of agreement or letter of understanding that, in the opinion of the MEC,
substantially affects the pay, working conditions, retirement, or career security of member pilots will
be subject to membership ratification under the following terms and conditions:
(1) The MEC will, at its option, ballot the membership of their airline to determine if it is their
desire to have membership ratification. Once membership ratification is established it will remain
in effect until changed by another ballot of the membership through MEC action.
(2) Unless the membership is balloted, as described in Section 2A(1) of this Article, membership​

ratification of individual contracts and agreements will remain the option of the MEC