And this just in from the Detroit Free Press about DL/NWA...

[General Lee]

Quote from the Detroit Free Press:

Earlier the Detroit Free Press reported that Delta's and Northwest's pilot unions has seen a merger proposal from the company and are unhappy with it.
Citing Doug Marshall, an aviation professor at the University of North Dakota, the Detroit newspaper said pilots are concerned their seniority won't be protected in the event of a merger. Furthermore, the deal appears anti-competitive, and may have trouble getting approval from the Department of Justice, the paper reported.





Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Here's another article from yesterday....

Report: Delta, NWA Float Merger Agreement Before Pilots Unions--FNN

Merging Of Seniority Lists Key

We may be getting closer to the oft-rumored joining of Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines in the state of merged operations. According to two sources close to the talks, both sides shared details of a proposed merger agreement this weekend to their respective pilots unions.

Bloomberg reports union leaders with each carrier's chapter of the Air Line Pilots Association will study the proposals on how to merge both airlines' seniority lists -- a bone of contention with the last merger of two domestic airlines, the 2005 joining of US Airways and America West.

"The pilots' receptiveness to a merger is key," said Howard Wheeldon, senior strategist at BCG Partners LP in London. "If they're prepared to support a deal, it can go forward, and I think the sooner it happens the better. The markets want to see a merger between Northwest and Delta."

As ANN reported last week, some believe a formal announcement of a Delta/NWA merger could come as early as this week... although its unlikely ALPA executives would reach an agreement to support the merger in such a short time, given the stakes involved.

Labor support is seen as critical to the deal going forward. Pilots may be willing to support the deal, if it appears they'd be able to recoup some of the losses they incurred after both airlines filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy on the same day in September 2005.

"Job losses and seniority issues are labor's chief concerns," said FTN Midwest Research Securities analyst Michael Derchin last week. "In return for support of consolidation, labor would likely demand stakes in the combined carriers, some job protection and higher wages."

If a Delta/NWA merger happens, the result would be the largest US airline by traffic volume... surpassing American Airlines. The deal would require regulatory approval, and could face anti-trust questions during that process.

As has become de rigueur throughout the rumored merger proceedings, neither Delta nor Northwest had any comment on the latest developments. Pilots union leaders didn't immediately return Bloomberg's calls for comments, either.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Truckdriver]

Quote from the Detroit Free Press:

Earlier the Detroit Free Press reported that Delta's and Northwest's pilot unions has seen a merger proposal from the company and are unhappy with it. Bye Bye--General Lee

Not really a big surprise to me. I would have been more surprised if NWA ALPA and DALPA accepted the first proposed merger contract and list. I guess this is talking just about NWA, so maybe DALPA has been working with DAL and the merged contract and list is DALPA's idea and NWA ALPA doesn't like it. In any case, saying no to the first proposal is expected and good in my opinion if we are to get some real improvements out of this merger.

 

[On Your Six]

Reminds me of Yahoo and Microsoft. Yahoo balked at the initial offer to get a better offer later (that remains to be seen). I agree that both pilot groups have the leverage right now - they should use it to get an overall better deal....

 

[AA717driver]

Where do you put the guys flying the DC9's? A hundred airplanes worth of pilots don't just sit on reserve... TC

 

[jke406]

Where do you put the guys flying the DC9's? A hundred airplanes worth of pilots don't just sit on reserve... TC

aren't you the same guy who said the unions couldn't squash a merger?

at least their reserve guys won't be getting URPed.

don't you have your own contract issues to worry about? work on raising the bar over there, and not lowering it.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Apparantly the DAL and NWA MECs aren't confident in ALPA's merger policy......Surely it would protect everyone wouldn't it? ......Or is there a problem with it?

 

[DTW320]

Where do you put the guys flying the DC9's? A hundred airplanes worth of pilots don't just sit on reserve... TC

Are Scope clauses going away in the merged contract?

 

[Truckdriver]

Where do you put the guys flying the DC9's? A hundred airplanes worth of pilots don't just sit on reserve... TC

In the E-175's and CRJ-900's that are currently being flown or on order for both NWA and DAL. All those planes come to the combined mainline carrier and everyone keeps their jobs.

 

[737 Pylt]

Apparantly the DAL and NWA MECs aren't confident in ALPA's merger policy......Surely it would protect everyone wouldn't it? ......Or is there a problem with it?

That's why they're meeting and bargaining (something of which you are absolutely clueless). Not hiring a high priced lawyer to file a lawsuit!

737

 

[Truckdriver]

Are Scope clauses going away in the merged contract?

Here is how simple the new scope clause could be:

1) Anyone who wants can fly up to a bazillion 50-seat jets and/or turboprops for Delta.

2) If it is larger than 50-seats, it is flown by Delta pilots.

3) If any affiliate of Delta that flies one of the bazillion 50 seat aircraft has a provision in their FOM that hats are optional, that provision will also apply to the Delta pilots.

 

[JoeMerchant]

That's why they're meeting and bargaining (something of which you are absolutely clueless). Not hiring a high priced lawyer to file a lawsuit!

737

ALPA merger policy already allows for both groups to "bargain".....Obviously the DAL and NWA MECs don't believe that ALPA merger policy offers enough protection.....Thus the "pre-nup".......

Maybe ALPA Merger Policy is broken.......

Mark my words....If this merger goes thru, there will be lawsuits filed......

 

[PuffDriver]

ALPA merger policy already allows for both groups to "bargain".....Obviously the DAL and NWA MECs don't believe that ALPA merger policy offers enough protection.....Thus the "pre-nup".......

Maybe ALPA Merger Policy is broken.......

Mark my words....If this merger goes thru, there will be lawsuits filed......

I would imagine that the hang up is more about the equity, and other contractual issues which the unions are trying to gain more than anything else--not that it is of your concern.

 

[jke406]

ALPA merger policy already allows for both groups to "bargain".....Obviously the DAL and NWA MECs don't believe that ALPA merger policy offers enough protection.....Thus the "pre-nup".......

Maybe ALPA Merger Policy is broken.......

Mark my words....If this merger goes thru, there will be lawsuits filed......

why do you care? you're not a mainline pilot.

 

[On Your Six]

I thought Lee Moak of DALPA and his counterpart had already met to discuss a potential tie-up? You'd think they would have already sketched out potential scenarios amenable to both parties... Time to bring in the expensive LAWYERS...

 

[Tanker Clown]

Delta newhires probably don't want to get stuck in the Diesel 9s...

They're going to unload those things. Delta newhires are going to get furloughed. Maybe they can accept the NWA rates and the company will agree to keep the 9s around.

 

[JoeMerchant]

why do you care? you're not a mainline pilot.

Because it illustrates the internal problems that this union has.....Mergers have been and continue to be a problem within this "brotherhood".......

Another problem is the fact that we are still using the label "mainline pilot"......Shouldn't matter.....I thought if "one of us has a problem, then we all have a problem"......If that is true, then we ALL have a problem this is so-called "union"......

 

[jke406]

Because it illustrates the internal problems that this union has.....Mergers have been and continue to be a problem within this "brotherhood".......

Another problem is the fact that we are still using the label "mainline pilot"......Shouldn't matter.....I thought if "one of us has a problem, then we all have a problem"......If that is true, then we ALL have a problem this is so-called "union"......

Well, I agree that the union is the problem.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I would imagine that the hang up is more about the equity, and other contractual issues which the unions are trying to gain more than anything else--not that it is of your concern.

Actually if you read the union's own releases, seniority integration is an issue.....which indicates that they aren't willing to trust ALPA merger policy to be "fair".....

If it relates to ALPA......it is my business...I don't need your permission to make something my business.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well, I agree that the union is the problem.

.....and for that reason, we should ALL care.....

 

[pb4ufly]

...looks like Joe needs a coffee break.

 

[737 Pylt]

Because it illustrates the internal problems that this union has.....Mergers have been and continue to be a problem within this "brotherhood".......

Another problem is the fact that we are still using the label "mainline pilot"......Shouldn't matter.....I thought if "one of us has a problem, then we all have a problem"......If that is true, then we ALL have a problem this is so-called "union"......

That "brotherhood" stopped the day you tried to sue to get on the "mainline" seniority list! Your idea of "brotherhood" could be translated into incest rape!

737

 

[PuffDriver]

Because it illustrates the internal problems that this union has.....Mergers have been and continue to be a problem within this "brotherhood".......

Another problem is the fact that we are still using the label "mainline pilot"......Shouldn't matter.....I thought if "one of us has a problem, then we all have a problem"......If that is true, then we ALL have a problem this is so-called "union"......

Where you are concerned, brotherhood is dead. Dead.
When you made your coupe, you made your bed. Now you have to live with it. We'll let you know what our scope opener is, though.

 

[General Lee]

Where do you put the guys flying the DC9's? A hundred airplanes worth of pilots don't just sit on reserve... TC

NWA will be parking 30 of the remaining DC9-30s this year, and supposedly keep 68 DC9-40/50s. Would they just park them all with no replacement and take them off their trunk routes (probably GRR, Minot, Fargo, Winnepeg, etc) and give them to RJs, when they probably fill those flights with well over 100 seats each? Probably not. They would slowly park those 68 planes when they can find adequate replacements (like MD90s---Saudia just put 28 up for sale--and many are available in China and Japan). Compass will have 38 total E170s by the end of this year, mostly making up for those DC9-30s. The Mesaba CR9s are covering for the Avros that left for Cityjet in Paris. The 68 larger DC9s will probably be replaced by 737NGs that may be coming off of a new production line added by Boeing in the near future. (article in WSJ stated they were thinking about adding a new production line soon) Highly doubt they will just park every DC9 as soon as we merge (if we do at all).

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JoeMerchant]

That "brotherhood" stopped the day you tried to sue to get on the "mainline" seniority list! Your idea of "brotherhood" could be translated into incest rape!

737

I don't want to have anything to do with your seniority list.....Now I want a single list at Skywest Inc......See I have this silly little idea that it would be a good idea to have a single list at any holding company........Believe it or not some of us don't have a desire to wear the double breasted coat and ask for wind checks....

ALPA won't push for a single list at Skywest/ASA either though because they are afraid that the resulting representational vote will result in losing the ASA pilots.....ALPA is more concerned with protecting ALPA than it is with protecting the ASA pilots....

I would rather have a single list at Skywest than a failed union that pretends it cares about it's members....

 

[Superpilot92]

NWA will be parking 30 of the remaining DC9-30s this year, and supposedly keep 68 DC9-40/50s. Would they just park them all with no replacement and take them off their trunk routes (probably GRR, Minot, Fargo, Winnepeg, etc) and give them to RJs, when they probably fill those flights with well over 100 seats each? Probably not. They would slowly park those 68 planes when they can find adequate replacements (like MD90s---Saudia just put 28 up for sale--and many are available in China and Japan). Compass will have 38 total E170s by the end of this year, mostly making up for those DC9-30s. The Mesaba CR9s are covering for the Avros that left for Cityjet in Paris. The 68 larger DC9s will probably be replaced by 737NGs that may be coming off of a new production line added by Boeing in the near future. (article in WSJ stated they were thinking about adding a new production line soon) Highly doubt they will just park every DC9 as soon as we merge (if we do at all).

Bye Bye--General Lee

FWIW the fleet guy came into our class this week and said that the remaining DC9s arent going anywhere for a while. the 68 remaining ones are the "newest" of the DC9s and are paid for and as of right now there is no 100 seat replacement. The dc9 has a cycle limit of 104,000 cycles and those remaining 68 are around 62,000 cycles right now, so for now they arent going anywhere. It was also mentioned that is the most reliable plane in the fleet and very effective for what it does for NWA. Until they find a replacement for it here at mainline it wont be going anywhere. take it for what its worth.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Where you are concerned, brotherhood is dead. Dead.
When you made your coupe, you made your bed. Now you have to live with it. We'll let you know what our scope opener is, though.

There is no brotherhood in this union....some of you just don't want to admit it..... Look at USAir/AWA......look at age 60....how about TWA....scope.....mergers.....It's every man and woman for themselves.....

Rearrange the chairs on the deck if you want....I'll go for a life raft while the band plays on......

 

[grinder]

Any jobs surplussed by -9 retirements will probably go to large RJs at mainline. Unfortunately, the Delta pay rates for those are pretty rough.

Grinder

 

[bleagle]

NW/DL will happen...

...done deal...

 

[Diesel-9]

FWIW the fleet guy came into our class this week and said that the remaining DC9s arent going anywhere for a while. the 68 remaining ones are the "newest" of the DC9s and are paid for and as of right now there is no 100 seat replacement. The dc9 has a cycle limit of 104,000 cycles and those remaining 68 are around 62,000 cycles right now, so for now they aren't going anywhere. It was also mentioned that is the most reliable plane in the fleet and very effective for what it does for NWA. Until they find a replacement for it here at mainline it wont be going anywhere. take it for what its worth.

The utilization rates are increasing significantly on the remaining DC-9's. Will see a small drop in the hours flown and with the current and future movement, there shouldn't be any displacements. The perfect airplane for all the short runways NWA operates into, especially in the winter. And it can carry all the hunting dogs you want, unlike some of the new Barbie jets. With Midwest 717's, getting more 717's from Boeing Capital would be a perfect DC-9 replacement for the cities the DC-9 operates into..