Should pax know pilot experience ?

[jetflier]

This statement was made by our communications chairman on national television: http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/BusinessTravel/story?id=4232878&page=1
http://kstp.com/article/stories/S331920.shtml?cat=1&v=1
"I think when people buy their airline ticket they don't even consider the experience level of the pilots that are going to fly that airplane. In bad weather or in a congested airport or in low visibility, this is something the traveling public needs to start thinking about more," said Wade Blaufus of the Minnesota Pilot's Union.
"If somebody went to the doctor or wanted to have needed to have a surgery, would they want the most experienced surgeon, or would they want somebody fresh out of med school?" said Blaufus.



IMHO this may begin the long road to restoring our profession by making experience count. By putting a price on experience, we may begin to drive up pay and benefits, but it will be a long road....

 

[goodgig]

I doubt it matters much to John Q. Public.
They sit at their computer with 3 screens open comparing prices.

 

[zkmayo]

If they want to know our experience level, we deserve how much their ticket was. Every pax should have a post-it note on his forehead stating how much he paid to ride.

 

[ExAF]

Doubt It

Either nobody saw it or nobody cares. Even the guys that always call me the instant they hear or see anything airplane related haven't made a peep. If it doesn't effect the price of their ticket, they have their head in the ground. I was expecting my phone to ring off of the hook after that story. Nothing but crickets.

 

[FLYLOW22]

What's a pax to do when Capt. Johnny Airline Pilot announces that he has 3,000 hours TT, 1,000 ME and he's working on 1,000 PIC Turbine and he's flying with F/O Phil McKrackin who has 250TT and is still trying to find out what makes a jet engine go? Get up and leave?

Fix the problem by paying professional wages and providing QOL... that will attract quality applicants.

Providing a resume of pilots is pointless... The average passenger won't know what the numbers mean and just becasue a pilot has high TT doesn't mean they aren't just getting back off of LTD, going through a divorce, got some bad sleep last night, etc...

Professional Pay and QOL will fix this... or we can continue down this path of awesomeness and entertainment.

Flying as a pax is not a right, it's a privliage for those who can afford it. Time to raise the ticket prices.

 

[jke406]

True. I can just hear Mr. Know-it-all pax now:

"Hey, the last flight's captain had 15,000 hours, and this one only has 10,000 hours. I demand an experienced guy!"

 

[flatspin7]

I can see the PAs now...


Ladies and Gentlemen... Welcome aboard FlybyNite Airlines flight 123 nonstop service to Cleveland...Flight time today will be 1 hour and 20 minutes.

Your Captain has been with the company 23 years and has over 12000 hours of flight experiance. With 10000 in Jet Aircraft. His turn ons include long walks on the beach and beer! His turn offs include Cleveland Layovers and flight attendants that keep calling the cockpit whining about the temp in the first 3 rows of coach.

Your FO is a graduate of Embry Riddle Aeronautical University and has been with the company for about a week and a half. He thinks he is better than the Captain becuase he has 1000 hours and 25 of them in a Jet. As you can see he is sporting up his pilot uniform with the addition of the new Ipod touch and a stylish frosted hair-do!


-------------
In all reality all the pax only need to know that the pilots have complete all FAA and Company training and evaluations.

 

[Lear70]

Flying as a pax is not a right, it's a privliage for those who can afford it. Time to raise the ticket prices.

The American Consumer disagrees with you, as did the Federal Government (i.e. Deregulation).

This is why anytime there is a threat to their cheap travel, even lengthy delays due to weather, there are hours of screaming, ranting, and gnashing of teeth on CNN or Fox News about a "passenger bill of rights" or government intervention in an upcoming strike.

The flying public outnumbers us about 1,000 to 1. It's simple numbers. They make more noise, they represent more votes, they win.

I'm not saying I disagree with you, on the contrary, I believe wholeheartedly that ticket prices should increase.

HOWEVER...

You wouldn't see ANY of it unless you negotiated for it. Management would pocket it and keep on chuckling.

Whether pilots like it or not, WE are going to have to fight for it. Personally. As in willingness to strike. As in willingness to see your company go into bankruptcy and possibly liquidate if they won't meet the wage needs of the employees.

It's a risk. But nothing good in life comes without some risk. Question is, how many of the SJS, ipod-in-the-airport, backpack-toting, spike-frosted-haired, sunglasses-in-the-airport-wearing kids are going to stand up with you and fight alongside you for it?

The answer, I fear is none, and they are starting to outnumber the rest of us who will fight as well.

Which is why I'm beginning to think that all this work I've done trying to help raise the bar is all for naught; that it's a lost cause, and I'm one of the only ones left still fighting, waiting for the backup to come charging over the hill that's never going to come.

Without the willingness to fight to the bloody END and elected government officials (NOT McCain) who will let the RLA take its course and appoint NMB members who are TRULY neutral, you're just spinning your wheels...

 

[Captain Overs]

I can see the PAs now...


Ladies and Gentlemen... Welcome aboard FlybyNite Airlines flight 123 nonstop service to Cleveland...Flight time today will be 1 hour and 20 minutes.

Your Captain has been with the company 23 years and has over 12000 hours of flight experiance. With 10000 in Jet Aircraft. His turn ons include long walks on the beach and beer! His turn offs include Cleveland Layovers and flight attendants that keep calling the cockpit whining about the temp in the first 3 rows of coach.

Your FO is a graduate of Embry Riddle Aeronautical University and has been with the company for about a week and a half. He thinks he is better than the Captain becuase he has 1000 hours and 25 of them in a Jet. As you can see he is sporting up his pilot uniform with the addition of the new Ipod touch and a stylish frosted hair-do!


-------------
In all reality all the pax only need to know that the pilots have complete all FAA and Company training and evaluations.

Stop bashing Continental!

 

[AC560]

"If somebody went to the doctor or wanted to have needed to have a surgery, would they want the most experienced surgeon, or would they want somebody fresh out of med school?" said Blaufus.

A Doctor advances based on his continual training and performance. An airline pilot advances based solely upon seniority. The analogy of comparing the two only works if you are advocating that all pilot pay and advancement should be on merit/performance and not based upon seniority.

 

[flatspin7]

Stop bashing Continental!

Ummmmm... I work at Continental... and I dont like Cleveland Layovers!!!

Would you feel better if I changed it to Tulsa layovers so everybody can feel the pain?

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

You know....if you make it LBB, the general and his SWA antagonists will make this go 5 pages....

 

[Draginass]

The public doesn't care about crappy maintenance or pilot experience/quality unless something happens to them personally. Then they'll raise hell with the all the ambulance-chasers they can get.

All the public cares about is PRICE.

 

[macdu]

It's all about smokin' holes in the ground my friends. No smokin' holes, nobody cares.

 

[Mike man]

...would they want the most experienced surgeon, or would they want somebody fresh out of med school?

That is a poor comparison...a qualified surgeon right out of medical school usually has better and new procedures and techniques that an older "more" qualified surgeon.

But anyway...

 

[hoover]

Fix the problem by paying professional wages and providing QOL... that will attract quality applicants.

The majors aren't having any problem attacting quality applicants, so raising pay there does nothing.

Regionals are paying more now than they ever did, yet they are having more trouble finding people now than they did back when they were paying 14K to FOs and 26K to CAs.

The problem is that the wage cuts at the majors have dis-incentivized (?) working for the airlines. People don't see the payoff at the other end, so they are not entering the field.

Regionals cannot afford to pay more, nor do they have any over control major airline pay, so they have done the only thing they can do: lower the barriers to entry.

 

[eaglefly]

We should base the cost of tickets on every flight on the experience level of the pilots.

Start with a "base cost" that is equal to all flights and then have all passengers pay the "adjusted price" once they show at the airport that's determined by the experience (and worth) of the crew. A certain percentage of the adjusted price will go to the pilots.

For instance, A 2500 hour Mesa Captain and 250 hour F/O, would share a small fraction (if any) of the increased portion of the price and a 20 year Eagle greybeard captain with 15,000 hours and his 7th year F/O with 6,500 hours would get most of it.

Same goes for a low time Skybus crew and a high time NWA crew.

That way, you get what you pay for.

Who's with me on this !

 

[Amish RakeFight]

PAX won't care about experience level until there is a serious trend in accidents attributed to this. Most believe that if they've past the mandated checkrides that all is at least minimally good. They play the statistics. Most aren't regular travelers and the 3 or so (if that) trips they take a year tend to be safe and without incident, they are not going to care much or avoid flying becasue of perceived lack of experience. Most have no idea or basis to judge what is or isn't experience. I've known guys who have had thousands of light GA hours before getting to a regional. Does this make them more exerienced when the captain has half that but most of it being in their type?

 

[ATRCAPT]

I can see the PAs now...


Ladies and Gentlemen... Welcome aboard FlybyNite Airlines flight 123 nonstop service to Cleveland...Flight time today will be 1 hour and 20 minutes.

Your Captain has been with the company 23 years and has over 12000 hours of flight experiance. With 10000 in Jet Aircraft. His turn ons include long walks on the beach and beer! His turn offs include Cleveland Layovers and flight attendants that keep calling the cockpit whining about the temp in the first 3 rows of coach.

Your FO is a graduate of Embry Riddle Aeronautical University and has been with the company for about a week and a half. He thinks he is better than the Captain becuase he has 1000 hours and 25 of them in a Jet. As you can see he is sporting up his pilot uniform with the addition of the new Ipod touch and a stylish frosted hair-do!


That would hilarious if it weren't so true....

 

[jetflier]

A Doctor advances based on his continual training and performance. An airline pilot advances based solely upon seniority. The analogy of comparing the two only works if you are advocating that all pilot pay and advancement should be on merit/performance and not based upon seniority.

Who is talking about advancing ? I was talking about experience. If it 1/16 mile vis blowing snow at LGA, I'd want the guy with more experience!

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Do the pax get a discount if we're on IOE and it's our first landing in type? Stick a "Student Drive" sticker on the side of the plane.

 

[instructordude]

Who is talking about advancing ? I was talking about experience. If it 1/16 mile vis blowing snow at LGA, I'd want the guy with more experience!

And this is another reason Age 60 rule change is a good thing. I can't believe we have been throwing all that experience out for years. Experience counts.

 

[Quimby]

Who is talking about advancing ? I was talking about experience. If it 1/16 mile vis blowing snow at LGA, I'd want the guy with more experience!

1/16 mile?

So what's the "high" time guy gonna do vs. a "low" time guy in that situation?

 

[Quimby]

And this is another reason Age 60 rule change is a good thing. I can't believe we have been throwing all that experience out for years. Experience counts.

nice flame!

 

[glasspilot1]

1/16 mile?

So what's the "high" time guy gonna do vs. a "low" time guy in that situation?

I think they both would do the same thing; divert to JFK!

 

[jetflier]

1/16 mile?

So what's the "high" time guy gonna do vs. a "low" time guy in that situation?

Flame bait

 

[NuGuy]

Who is talking about advancing ? I was talking about experience. If it 1/16 mile vis blowing snow at LGA, I'd want the guy with more experience!

Heyas Jet,

This is fixable. Just get rid of the scam known as "code sharing".

Let people decide if they want to fly on NWA, DAL or some other name they "trust" or if they're comfortable flying someone they've never heard of.

If you buy a ticket on UAL, you should be on UAL metal.

Nu

 

[DTW320]

A Doctor advances based on his continual training and performance. An airline pilot advances based solely upon seniority. The analogy of comparing the two only works if you are advocating that all pilot pay and advancement should be on merit/performance and not based upon seniority.

Disagree. An airline pilot gets the OPPORTUNITY to advance based solely upon seniority. Once that opportunity is presented he/she then actually advances based upon training and performance in the schoolhouse/simulator/aircraft in front of the FAA or their designee.

 

[jmreii]

people care about marcus welby M.D., and could care less about ralph cramden a.k.a. airline pilot. no public sympathy is forthcoming and as far as the smoking holes go we can always eliminate the baaaad carriers through attrition as we have always done.

 

[AC560]

An airline pilot gets the OPPORTUNITY to advance based solely upon seniority.

Exactly. If Bob Hoover comes to your airline tomorrow he is sitting on reserve. The fact he is a better pilot then probably 90% of the people flying for the airline isn't relevant. You can't have it both ways where one claims they are where they are because of their skills and at the same time restrict more qualified people from taking those positions due to lack of seniority.