Leave Airtran for United??

[PCL_128]

You sound like your set on the pay rates!

I voted NO, little man. And I'll vote NO again if the payrates aren't DAL+1%. Just because I like my job doesn't mean that I'll roll over on a contract.

 

[curious_george]

appreciate all the opinions..
its a hard choice.
I'm single. and have never commuted.. and don't plan to.
i moved to Atlanta for AT and would move to where I'm based at UAL too, probably Denver.
Just would be nice to have that crystal ball. See what the future holds for either place.
Be it status quo, or up or down. IF i was a capt. at AT, i wouldn't leave. but as a 737 fo who plans on waiting to upgrade in 737 (prefer longer legs, transcons, and don't want to go thru 717 training just to bid out at 1st opportunity) its a different story. i also miss the world wide non rev benefits of my last airline.
But giving up close to 25% relative seniority to be on the bottom of UAL is a big gamble. They aren't growing, no aircraft on order and looking to merge. i wonder how they are hiring 400 or so pilots in 2008 as it is.
Its a crazy industry, years ago it would have no brainier. now i simply don't know.
thanks for all the replys though.

 

[DougsRule]

If I could have some constructive input here... i.e. not flaming. But, why is everyone so down on AAI?

Be constructive now...

DougsRule.....

 

[TV9Driver]

The problem with AAI right now is that we are in the midst of a contract negotiation that has been going on for 3 years. This has caused alot of problems, morale, management vs employees, etc... This actually isn't a bad place to be when everyone is on the same page. Hopefully, we'll get all of this settled this summer and we can be on our way.

 

[MINIME]

If you really like UAL because of bases, pay, QOL, or just name recognition, I'd suggest you follow those feelings. I don't think you'll be better off at one over the other. It might be a similar outcome. AAI is not immune to megers, far from it.

Once a pair of airlines hitch, I believe most will follow. Plus, 3 years in negotiations for a contract, with a percieved low ball proposal inbetween, has to make you wonder about their management's committment to their employees. I've no doubt that UAL will get a better contract in a more timely fashion. Not because management is any better, but because I believe you have a more militant pilot group at UAL.

If they merge with CAL, it'll create an opportunity for the pilots to negotiate some improvements to their contracts as it happens. After that, you'll have the weight of the CAL MEC and UAL MEC to try and negotiate a good contract for the combined group. Remember, AAI may not be the buyer in a merger. It could very well be the buyee. So the outcome for you could be similar. But at least you'll never wonder what if.....

 

[freightdogfred]

I've no doubt that UAL will get a better contract in a more timely fashion. Not because management is any better, but because I believe you have a more militant pilot group at UAL.

If they merge with CAL, it'll create an opportunity for the pilots to negotiate some improvements to their contracts as it happens. After that, you'll have the weight of the CAL MEC and UAL MEC to try and negotiate a good contract for the combined group.

I see people on this board getting down on Airtran for having scabs working there, but I'd venture to say that if these two merge that new airline would have more scabs on their list than FL has total pilots.

 

[PCL_128]

I see people on this board getting down on Airtran for having scabs working there, but I'd venture to say that if these two merge that new airline would have more scabs on their list than FL has total pilots.

That's a near certainty.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

yep...and they know their place and are put in it on a daily basis....unlike FL where they are in a position of real power.

 

[PCL_128]

yep...and they know their place and are put in it on a daily basis....unlike FL where they are in a position of real power.

You can spin it any way you like, but the fact remains that we only have about 20 of them on the line, while both UAL and CAL have hundreds. Between both airlines, nearly 3,000 SCABs crossed the line. Hundreds of them remain. So it's pretty ridiculous to be criticizing this airline on that basis.

 

[StopNTSing]

If that happens, then I will be trying for United. Otherwise, I'm quite happy where I am.

Are you for real? (and I'm not trying to yank your chain here, but...) ARE YOU HONESTLY FOR REAL? So SWA buys AirTran tomorrow (not that I believe it will ever happen, but I'm just trying to understand your position) and you would bail to UAL? What would prompt such a move, is it:

1) The pay raise
2) The eight new bases to choose from
3) The better work rules
4) The better schedules (What's a red-eye flight?)
5) The kinder & gentler training dept


Well, maybe it's seniority integration worries (oh that's right, Congress just said put away the stapler, boys), or maybe it's the lack of wide-bodies (oh that's right, AT doesn't have 'em), or the domestic-only flying (oh yeah, that's all AT does currently). Oh! Oh! Oh! I know....you'd be working for one of those scum-sucking non-ALPA carriers! (oh, that's right....never mind)

I know you and ALPA go way back, and that probably means you have an out-sized disdain for SWA, but I really think you're blowing smoke with that statement. Either that or you'd be willing to make a highly-principled choice about your career that would be as ill-advised as your choice for President.

 

[PCL_128]

I won't get into a long discussion of my dislike for SWA, because it would probably result in one of those 10 page threads that happen when the General posts about LBB and 737s, but I'm most certainly serious. I really have zero desire to work for SWA. Believe it or not, not everyone wants to work there. I like working at AAI, and I don't even have an application out at UAL or any other airline, but an SWA merger would likely change that. Hopefully I'll never have to make that decision.

 

[bleagle]

I won't get into a long discussion of my dislike for SWA, because it would probably result in one of those 10 page threads that happen when the General posts about LBB and 737s, but I'm most certainly serious. I really have zero desire to work for SWA. Believe it or not, not everyone wants to work there. I like working at AAI, and I don't even have an application out at UAL or any other airline, but an SWA merger would likely change that. Hopefully I'll never have to make that decision.

SWA+AAI....... JUST SAY NO!

 

[400ADude]

I voted NO, little man. And I'll vote NO again if the payrates aren't DAL+1%. Just because I like my job doesn't mean that I'll roll over on a contract.

DAL+1%. That is not what you should be shooting for. Those wages are kind of embarrassing.

 

[PCL_128]

DAL+1%. That is not what you should be shooting for. Those wages are kind of embarrassing.

That's not what I'm shooting for. That's just the base line that I refuse to go below. I really don't know what the new NPA leadership is shooting for, but it should be close to current SWA rates.

 

[400ADude]

That's not what I'm shooting for. That's just the base line that I refuse to go below. I really don't know what the new NPA leadership is shooting for, but it should be close to current SWA rates.

You might get SWA rates if you guys merge.

 

[PCL_128]

You might get SWA rates if you guys merge.

Not worth it.

 

[400ADude]

Not worth it.

No problem there. You must really love Airtran's culture, history, management, pay, training center etc... My hats off to you.

Too many people on this board hate where they work but you are different. A breath of fresh air to find someone who is happy. This Buds for you!:beer:

 

[Kharma Police]

No problem there. You must really love Airtran's culture, history, management, pay, training center etc... My hats off to you.

Too many people on this board hate where they work but you are different. A breath of fresh air to find someone who is happy. This Buds for you!:beer:

Again "Dude", I guess I missed it, who do you fly your little b!tch jet (or whatever) for? Are you one of those frac guys that bums rides off us, I'm wondering what kind of reciprocal agreement we have with you guys, I'm trying to go PDK-BKL.

 

[Jmoney]

Bums Rides?

By "bums rides" do you mean purchase a ticket? That would make them a paying customer, wouldn't it?

Are you not aware that only 121 or 135 pilots get to ride the jumpseat? Might want to crack a book, sometime.

-Nice burn, there big guy!

 

[Kharma Police]

By "bums rides" do you mean purchase a ticket? That would make them a paying customer, wouldn't it?

Are you not aware that only 121 or 135 pilots get to ride the jumpseat? Might want to crack a book, sometime.

-Nice burn, there big guy!

We have (or had) don't know why, some sort of non-rev agreement with a few fractionals, Flight Options, Flight Works. So yeah, they could "bum" a free ride, as in not have to pay. Notice I didn't say anything about "jumpseat" but thanks for letting me know about the regs, what's this CASS thing they keep talking about? Nice Dog or Cat picture, you live in Mid Town?

 

[StopNTSing]

I won't get into a long discussion of my dislike for SWA, because it would probably result in one of those 10 page threads that happen when the General posts about LBB and 737s, but I'm most certainly serious. I really have zero desire to work for SWA. Believe it or not, not everyone wants to work there. I like working at AAI, and I don't even have an application out at UAL or any other airline, but an SWA merger would likely change that. Hopefully I'll never have to make that decision.

I'll be the first to admit this place is not for everyone, but if a guy is already content flying narrow-body aircraft in domestic ops, it's a pretty good gig. To each his own, I guess. Best of luck to you.

 

[XShuttle]

PCL,

Delta +1% those are bankruptcy pay rates and that is what you are willing to settle for? 3 years past the amendable date?

I feel sorry for you guys and gals at Air Tran with people like this there is no way you will ever get a good contract. Do you think pilots at UAL are going to settle for Delta +1%?

 

[jke406]

Why not SWA +1%? Try raising the bar industry-wide.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

man...i love this thread keep it up

 

[hoover]

You have a good job with a stable, growing, profitable company. In a couple of years you will upgrade and be earning over 100K a year, with a potential to be pulling in over 150K by the time you reach the top of the pay scale. You have been there less than 2 years, and are already 25% up the seniority list. Imagine where you will be in few years.
When you fly you cross very few time zones, and I guess you do very little "back of the clock" flying, which serves to increase your life expectancy.

I'm hard pressed to see what United can offer you that you don't already have. Unless your life just won't be complete without flying a 747 into Hong Kong, I'd say stay where you are.

I'll state it another way. What do you feel you would be missing if you did not go to UAL?

 

[IAHERJ]

If, Thats a big IF you are senior enough to hold that schedule as a captain then you have it pretty good. 95% don't

By the way what's the time to hold that at CAL?
my guess is 20plus.

Did I say Captain? You can get a schedule like that pretty quick as an FO. We have 2 year guys/gals on the 777 holding 19-21 days off flying to Europe and Asia. Our domestic layovers are a hell of a lot better than AAI's. I know, I worked for Airtran for almost 3 years. Our short layover hotels are the same as AirTran's only layover hotels. Trust me on this. I tried to help a 10 year AAI guy get on at CAL recently but he never got the call. He is starting at Delta next month. Why? Like many, he wants to see the world and enjoy all that flying for a global airine has to offer. Doing a side by side comparison of just money works for some, but not others. BTW, my side by side comparison made before chosing to leave AAI for CAL ended up being very concervative. I have already beat the #'s for year 2 and will easily do so for year 3 after having left the 737 for the 757/767 now based in IAH.
I am not bashing AirTran and never have and never will. Just trying to back up one's decision to leave for United based on what I've seen having flown for AirTran and now Continental. It's not just about the hot meals etc. There is a lot too it.

IAHERJ

 

[Britpilot]

I'll be the first to admit this place is not for everyone, but if a guy is already content flying narrow-body aircraft in domestic ops, it's a pretty good gig. To each his own, I guess. Best of luck to you.

Hey, I won't be upset if SWA buys us.:beer:

 

[IAHERJ]

Did I say Captain? You can get a schedule like that pretty quick as an FO. We have 2 year guys/gals on the 777 holding 19-21 days off flying to Europe and Asia. Our domestic layovers are a hell of a lot better than AAI's. I know, I worked for Airtran for almost 3 years. Our short layover hotels are the same as AirTran's only layover hotels. Trust me on this. I tried to help a 10 year AAI guy get on at CAL recently but he never got the call. He is starting at Delta next month. Why? Like many, he wants to see the world and enjoy all that flying for a global airine has to offer. Doing a side by side comparison of just money works for some, but not others. BTW, my side by side comparison made before chosing to leave AAI for CAL ended up being very concervative. I have already beat the #'s for year 2 and will easily do so for year 3 after having left the 737 for the 757/767 now based in IAH.
I am not bashing AirTran and never have and never will. Just trying to back up one's decision to leave for United based on what I've seen having flown for AirTran and now Continental. It's not just about the hot meals etc. There is a lot too it.

IAHERJ

Why can't I edit my post to correct a spelling mistake? Anyway, concervative should be conservative......

 

[PCL_128]

PCL,

Delta +1% those are bankruptcy pay rates and that is what you are willing to settle for? 3 years past the amendable date?

I feel sorry for you guys and gals at Air Tran with people like this there is no way you will ever get a good contract. Do you think pilots at UAL are going to settle for Delta +1%?

Have you seen our FO rates? Taking our second year rate to DAL +1% is about a 25% raise. If you think you can get much more than that in one contract, then you're dreaming. I think our CA rates will be quite a bit higher than DAL +1% (even our failed TA rates were much higher), but trying to jack the FO rates up to SWA+ will be next to impossible in one contract.

 

[MINIME]

Have you seen our FO rates? Taking our second year rate to DAL +1% is about a 25% raise. If you think you can get much more than that in one contract, then you're dreaming. I think our CA rates will be quite a bit higher than DAL +1% (even our failed TA rates were much higher), but trying to jack the FO rates up to SWA+ will be next to impossible in one contract.

With all due respect, don't be so quick to cut down your own legs. I don't hear that coming from AMR, UAL, DAL or any CAL guys. I wouldn't be so quick as to create lower expectations for your management and your union. This is the kind of stuff that goes on at Regionals. It should not be happening at the Major level, period.

DAL is working under BK wages. All things being equal, I doubt DAL pilots would settle for their current wages. You guys should be shooting for parity with SWA. They're the airline that best mirrors what you can, and what you've accomplished to this point.

Further, you get what you negotiate. I think that the mentality has to be positive (with some militancy) and the bar has to be set high before getting into the ring with management. Otherwise, you may be schooled into accepting something that's less diserving of your pilots.