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Airline Pilot Unions

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Nevets

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Joined
Oct 22, 2007
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The aircraft lumbers to the gate, the nose wheel bouncing over the potholes that the airport authority has deemed not deep enough to repair. The jet bridge gently bumps the plane’s side, the door slides open and the day starts to come to a close. The parking checks are completed, the grumbling passengers head on to their sunny destinations and the crew trudges off the plane, exhausted but done with a long 4 day trip. A faint bleating alerts the Captain he has a message on his cell phone. Jamming it to his ear, his normally smiling face goes through an abrupt change a few seconds later. “The Chief Pilot wants to talk to me about a call from the Feds!” In the crews exhaustion, a taxi instruction may have been botched, a speed limit exceeded or an altitude busted. But no matter the reason for the call, it still starts a nerve wracking chain reaction. These simple words can often trigger a violent rush of adrenaline and sweat, flashing a blur of scenes across the pilot’s mind, everything from a dark, bank vault style office stacked high with crusty old FAA types, each dangling a copy of his license from their gnarled fingers, a small lit match dancing underneath it, to a raging Chief Pilot hunched over a huge mahogany desk, spittle flying wildly as he begins a spirited deconstruction of the pilots confidence coupled with an erosion of his feeling of job security. The fear of the unknown runs rampant. What did I do? Did we really miss a crossing restriction? Is my resume updated?

While these images may be a small stretch of reality in many of today’s airlines, they did indeed play out on a regular basis in decades prior. The trip to the Chief Pilots office or a call to the “Tower” used to have connotations of doom and punishment, a solitary walk to the airline gallows. But with the exponential growth of the airlines throughout the 20th century, and along with it the airline labor movement, these scenes have become, for the most part, a memory. A call to the carpet is no longer a death row style march alone. Representation is provided, contracts are fought to be honored, advice dispensed and often there is some form of mitigation to the discipline being meted out. Safety issues are addressed with a larger impact in no small part due to the collective voice a union provides. Issues such as alcohol or drugs are now dealt with in a more understanding manner, affording the pilot a chance to heal themselves and redeem what once would have been a trashed career. Programs partnered with the FAA, such as ASAP and FOQA, allow for a somewhat friendlier environment for a pilot when mistakes are made. Hotel problems, pilot to pilot issues, medical issues, loss of license issues and a host of other day to day headaches faced by the line pilot are handled with programs spawned from the organized labor movement. These were all made possible and staffed by a group of volunteers who are the core of the modern day union.

The strong culture of volunteering within the frame work of a union has created a viable bargaining agent that, for the most part, promotes the collective interest and safety of its membership. The regulated hours a pilot may fly, the conditions a pilot may operate in, the improvements made in aircraft and airports, and a myriad of other career enhancements were all accomplished by men and women who donated their time and effort in order to better the career and its periphery. Along with these benefits, tools for engaging management in a fair and equitable manner grew. The strength of a pilot group often dictated the treatment it received, the level of safety it operated under and the image it portrayed to the flying public. A loud, unified voice produced results that no single voice could ever hope to achieve. But today, that voice has become somewhat muted. And along with its lower volume comes a steady erosion of the hard won benefits that pilots have enjoyed for years.
union_cockpit.jpg


Pensions, wages and work rules became some of the first victims to fall to the post 9-11 aviation era. Giving back became the mantra of management. Jobs were no longer so secure and furloughs and bankruptcies became sickeningly common place. Caught up in the battle to draw the line in the sand were the unions and their members. Support and unity were also caught up in the mix, damaged by what many saw as an unwarranted acquiescence to management’s demands by union leadership. Calls to give no quarter for what many saw as a ransom for employment by management hell bent on self indulging bonuses fractured the unity of the union’s membership, with others envisioning the ghosts of Eastern rising up in the gloom and seeing a point in giving back. This rocky path has slowly started to come full circle. These turbulent waters are slowly receding, with profitability returning to airlines and a fragile, budding new sense of unity slowly taking root. Giving up has gone the way of the dinosaur and taking back has become the staple cry.

Members, once content to sit idly and watch their futures be negotiated for them, are now taking an active role as volunteers. Their voices are being heard louder than ever. Programs that once languished on the sidelines are now being revived and utilized to increase awareness and information to the pilot group, spurred on by a new wave of unity. Informational picketing is taking the battle for wage and benefit restoration out to the public. Apathy is slowly fading. Volunteers are once again becoming the Captains to their own destinies, with their hands planted firmly on the wheel and their eyes on restoring dignity to the profession that we all work within. It is the next few generations of pilots who will ultimately see the fruits of this new incarnation of the labor movement. It is those young pilots who are just starting out that will become the volunteers of tomorrow, the leaders in the steep, but conquerable, path that lies ahead that will bring back the luster and shine of the professional pilot.

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/prof...connors/airline_pilot_unions_20071031264.html
 
Airline union aren't unions, they are businesses
 
Here is how the UAW does it; they reach a deal with a single company, then go to the next company and say match it or you will be shutdown and all the new cars being sold will be built someplace else, then they go to the next company and repeat. When the auto companies where rolling in money it was a good deal for all. But over the last 30 years it has eliminated 70% of the union jobs, gave great raise to non-union companies, and now it is concession time. Now the Airlines could follow the same path as the UAW and it would be great for 30% of those who still had jobs. This is also great for the non-ALPA airlines that would fly all the passengers when the ALPA pilots were on strike.
 
Airline union aren't unions, they are businesses

Wow.... why is it when I volunteer on my day off and get reimbursed for say a hotel, taxi or a meal, I have to pay taxes on the value of the hotel/taxi/meal from my own funds? What kind of business is that?

Unions aren't a French maid with big tits serving you Bud Light on silver platter... and you're disapointed at that.... perhaps you should manage your expectations a bit better....

Don't worry, we will still volunteer so you can take this profession for granted and do whatever you want on your time off..... We know how to deal with those who shat where they eat.....


Here is how the UAW does it; they reach a deal with a single company, then go to the next company and say match it or you will be shutdown and all the new cars being sold will be built someplace else, then they go to the next company and repeat. When the auto companies where rolling in money it was a good deal for all. But over the last 30 years it has eliminated 70% of the union jobs, gave great raise to non-union companies, and now it is concession time. Now the Airlines could follow the same path as the UAW and it would be great for 30% of those who still had jobs. This is also great for the non-ALPA airlines that would fly all the passengers when the ALPA pilots were on strike.

Pilotyip...

fair observation.... however, don't forget the CEO compensation factor...

Many love to blame unions...for a companies failure however, reply to this:

Unions don't have the "power" in this country. The laws and culture and slighted towards business.. not the worker.... advantage: Companies.

When a Big Three Auto or Airline CEO takes a huge compensation package, for example UAL's Tilton, what do you expect the unions to do? Tilton is a BK and merger man. That is why he is there... So he rapes the companies money, takes from the employees, furloughs and plans to do it again with a merger.... Advantage: Company.

Liken it to a parent/child relationship and a 'Do as I say and not as I do' paradigm.


Are you saying that unions, that are at a disadvantage, with the deck stacked against them, should take the high road? Sure it is easy to say yes on FI, but pragmatically, if they did, thier membership would cry foul and say the union leadership was under the CEO's desk.

Now, look at companies like SAS, Costco and SWA.... The difference... the Corporate Leadership.

Don't expect unions to be refined southern socialites when they are treated like city street people...
 
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That big business mentality has

certainly screwed us for a bit, but it is still the street level volunteers who get it done.... For those who want to sit back and bitch about what should be done to those who get it done...
 
Wow.... why is it when I volunteer on my day off and get reimbursed for say a hotel, taxi or a meal, I have to pay taxes on the value of the hotel/taxi/meal from my own funds?

Because we have bad tax laws in this country Rez.... Hillary and Obama will make them worse..... How about the fair tax? How about tax reductions?

Hey we agree on something...... you shouldn't pay taxes on reimbursements.... Then again, I don't believe ANYONE should pay income taxes....

Although I know first hand that many ALPA volunteers take the full meal values even when they don't use them to make up for these issues......
 
Because we have bad tax laws in this country Rez.... Hillary and Obama will make them worse..... How about the fair tax? How about tax reductions?

Hey we agree on something...... you shouldn't pay taxes on reimbursements.... Then again, I don't believe ANYONE should pay income taxes....

Joey.... ALPA volunteers began paying taxes on expenses...during the Bush Admin. It was a Bush directed policy...:rolleyes:

Although I know first hand that many ALPA volunteers take the full meal values even when they don't use them to make up for these issues......

When I was volunteering I would fly Fri-Mon. Then the MEC meeting was Tues-Thur. So while I was working 7/days a week, others where off doing whatever they wanted. Someone needs to mind the store....

Like it or not allot of relationship building and effectiveness gets done over a beer at dinner.... I just volunteered 30 hours of time to my pilot group. I don't charge 30 hours(payrate)= $$$ to my pilot group. So when I am at an union paid dinner I might order dessert whereas I normally might not.... Does the membership want to complian that I was out till 2130 discussing the business of the Association eating cheesecake on thier dime? of course I pay taxes on that dinner....

Sadly there are toolboxes that will complain that didn't get a PBJ.....
 
Joey.... ALPA volunteers began paying taxes on expenses...during the Bush Admin. It was a Bush directed policy...:rolleyes:

That's because there is a lot of misuse of union member's money..... When I started doing union work, and we were shown how to fill out our expense sheet, we were told to just take the full value of the meal whether we used it or not.....

For example, I believe Breakfast was allowed up to $10 at the time..... don't remember exactly.... In Herndon, or wherever, most ALPA volunteers would eat the free meal provided by the hotel then expense $11..... In that case, that is income....

There is far too much history of corruption in unions.... Now if we got rid of the income tax, and replaced it with the fair tax, you could get reimbursed for what you spent and there would be no tax on it.....
 
WRONG!! Sorry Joey... your hate, disdain and bitter for ALPA negates your ability to think objectively...


That's because there is a lot of misuse of union member's money..... When I started doing union work, and we were shown how to fill out our expense sheet, we were told to just take the full value of the meal whether we used it or not.....

And what did you do?

Do you call up your payroll department at the end of the month and say... you know I really didn't use all of my per deim.... here is a percentage back...


For example, I believe Breakfast was allowed up to $10 at the time..... don't remember exactly.... In Herndon, or wherever, most ALPA volunteers would eat the free meal provided by the hotel then expense $11..... In that case, that is income....

Really Joey.... when I did volunteer work, often a lunch was catered at Herndon (sandwhiches on a plastic tray...we WORKED thru lunch)... I did NOT expense a lunch... not sure what you did, but you phcuked ALPA before, I am sure you did it in many ways...


There is far too much history of corruption in unions.... Now if we got rid of the income tax, and replaced it with the fair tax, you could get reimbursed for what you spent and there would be no tax on it.....

I'll give you this..... people are in ALPA. People are in gov't and churches.... in fact there is allot of corruption going on in church finances lately... but let;s not talk about that... let's just slam ALPA. Anytime you have people in an oranization, you are going to have imperfections. It doesn't make the enitre organization invalidated!!

Sure there is some guys in ALPA that try and screw everyone.... like you Joey with your silly RJDC.. but that is NOT ALPA policy... it is an individuals poor judgement..... don't try and make the entire organization responsible for an individuals actions..

In addtion, the demands of LM-2 reporting destroy your efferts to discredit ALPA....

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/12/pdf/landrum_griffin.pdf
 
I like the idea of the french maid, with big tits serving me bud light.
 
I like the idea of the french maid, with big tits serving me bud light.

.....except for the "bud light" part.... Anchor Steam or Sierra Nevada please..... ALPA would try to give us Bud Light...... (TIC for Rez)
 
Pigs ear

Pilotyip...
Are you saying that unions, that are at a disadvantage, with the deck stacked against them, should take the high road? Sure it is easy to say yes on FI, but pragmatically, if they did, thier membership would cry foul and say the union leadership was under the CEO's desk....
No all am I saying unions have limitations, as much as everyone would like to change things and make things better. There are limits. That is why all contracts are local in nature, you can not impose an ALPA FedEx contract terms on a ALPA Kitty Hawk contract. Unions can not make sink purses out of pig's ear.
 
No all am I saying unions have limitations, as much as everyone would like to change things and make things better. There are limits. That is why all contracts are local in nature, you can not impose an ALPA FedEx contract terms on a ALPA Kitty Hawk contract. Unions can not make sink purses out of pig's ear.

So then...what's the issue?
 
Because we have bad tax laws in this country Rez.... Hillary and Obama will make them worse..... How about the fair tax? How about tax reductions?

Hey we agree on something...... you shouldn't pay taxes on reimbursements.... Then again, I don't believe ANYONE should pay income taxes....

I agree with you 110%. The FairTax would be more fair and Hillary or Obama will raise our taxes.
 
What Do You Get for 1.95%?
The Best Pilot Union Money Can Buy
ALPA members support their union’s many activities through dues representing 1.95% of their airline income. Where does that money go? What do members get in return? These are legitimate questions, and they all have answers that point to one conclusion:
Your dues dollars pay for a level and range of services that pilots need, demand, and could not get anywhere else. With ALPA, your dues dollars buy a lot more as part of a larger group than could be afforded by an individual pilot group at 1.95% of income.
Unfortunately, we have seen a few “reports” that claim otherwise. By quoting various sources out of context, including government filings, they use innuendo and outright accusations to attack the Association and present an inaccurate and incomplete view of ALPA’s expenditures through a distorted lens. What follows is a more detailed “walk-around” to put those various expenditures into proper perspective.
Volunteers Don’t Come “Free”
One of ALPA’s biggest expense categories is the cost of supporting the vast network of pilots who volunteer their time and energies for ALPA safety, security, bargaining, and representation activities. The Association simply could not function without them. Only one pilot member is an ALPA employee getting a paycheck—the President. ALPA’s President must be independent from any one airline and responsible only to the Association’s members.
Out of both fairness and practicality, volunteers cannot be expected to foot all their own losses when performing ALPA business. Besides obvious out-of-pocket expenses, some volunteers may have to drop trips in order to perform certain functions. Long ago, ALPA recognized the need to make up for some or all of its volunteers’ lost income (always with their MEC’s support).
Flight pay loss is essential
Flight pay loss (FPL) expenditures are carefully monitored and controlled, and ALPA’s policies require each MEC to report flight pay loss expenditures to the membership on a regular basis. ALPA pays approximately one-fifth of its total dues income ($22 million in 2006 alone) toward flight pay loss. Only about 14% of that amount is to allow pilots to participate in the work of ALPA’s National Committees. The rest is paid by MECs for their pilots to work on the issues that are important to their individual pilot groups. In other words, these expenses were authorized by your local leaders to support your pilot group’s activities. Ask any volunteer: A pilot union cannot be effective without extensive use of FPL.

Your pilot reps determine National Officers’ compensation
In addition to the pilot representatives at ALPA’s 42 pilot groups, the union has four full-time National Officers: President, First Vice President, Vice President–Administration/Secretary, and Vice President–Finance/Treasurer. Their reimbursements are fixed by Board of Directors policy (your elected reps).

The ALPA Board of Directors, which is made up of the elected reps from every pilot group within our union, adopted a fixed formula for calculating presidential compensation in 1970, with modifications and additions made by the Board every four years since. In 2006, the President’s salary was based on the average pay of the highest-paying pilot position at the top three ALPA airlines. Beginning in 2007, the President’s salary is based on the average pay of the highest-paying pilot position at the top five ALPA airlines.
FPL compensation for ALPA’s three other National Officers is at the rate of the highest-paying equipment each is entitled to hold in accordance with his system seniority at his airline. All the National Officers who held office from 2003 through 2006 took the pay cuts that occurred at their respective airlines or, in the case of the President, cuts that were reflected in the airline formula approved by the Board of Directors.
FPL for National Officers is not incorporated into the ALPA disbursements in the LM-2 report because the Officers are paid directly by their airline and ALPA reimburses the airlines for the FPL costs. (Also, the National Officers receive no retirement or benefit plan other than the one provided by the contract at their airline.)
What is a “service allowance”?
All ALPA National Officers receive a service allowance (to cover expenses incurred in their duties as National Officer) and a dislocation allowance (to cover housing, meals, and travel expenses for the Washington, D.C., area, which has one of the highest costs of living in the nation). Such allowances, which are reviewed annually by the Special Compensation Review Committee (composed of five ALPA MEC chairmen) and approved by ALPA’s Board of Directors, are taxable income, so the pre-tax amounts shown on LM-2 reports are set to provide adequate post-tax amounts to cover living and other expenses, including commuting to their hometowns.

ALPA’s Executive Administrator, selected by the President, also receives FPL reimbursement and allowances under provisions identical to those of the National Officers other than the President and which are approved annually by ALPA’s Executive Council.
These allowances comprise approximately 80% of the disbursements ALPA makes to its three other National Officers and the Executive Administrator and reported on its LM-2. The remaining disbursements include vacation cash-out (consistent with the policy of the particular National Officer’s or Executive Administrator’s MEC) and reimbursement for expenses incurred while performing ALPA business. The President’s salary is also included in his disbursement amount as reported on the LM-2.
According to the BOD-approved compensation provisions for National Officers who retire while in office, ALPA will pay “the difference between what the officer earned, on average, during the six months immediately preceding becoming a Retired Member and the airline-funded retirement income he or she is entitled to receive.” This “differential pay” is paid directly by ALPA to the applicable National Officer and is also included in the disbursements on the LM-2.
All such disbursements and reimbursements are subject to policies approved by ALPA’s pilot-run governing bodies—MECs, the Executive Board, or the Board of Directors. Again—your elected reps.

Continued on next post
 
Continued from previous post

ALPA Staff Is the Best in the Business
Because of its unique identity as a labor union, a collective bargaining representative, and a safety and security advocate, the Association requires a broad range of staff expertise. Pilot members have made it abundantly clear that they will accept nothing less than well-credentialed and highly experienced staff to support them in the Association’s work.
ALPA members have also demanded that long-term staff be retained to guard against the memory and knowledge gap that inevitably occurs when pilot officers and representatives return to line flying after volunteering. ALPA is fortunate to have attracted extremely well-qualified and dedicated professional staff.
Consultants cost more
Senior members in virtually every department have between 20 and 35 years of ALPA experience.

These senior staff members provide service on behalf of any one or more of the 42 airlines whose pilots ALPA represents, and they do that work when, where, and how it needs to be done. Given such extensive hours, ALPA has determined that it is in both the union’s and the members’ best interest to employ these professionals rather than to pay $200–$400 or more per hour for consultants or outside attorneys. The Continental and FedEx pilots voted to return to ALPA in 2001 and 2002, respectively, largely because they concluded that only ALPA, with its staff focusing exclusively on pilot issues, had the professional expertise to help them meet the needs of their pilot groups.
With 60,000 members, $105 million in dues revenue, 390 employees, 20 offices, approximately 200 “units” (MECs, LECs, departments, national committees), a captive insurance company (Kitty Hawk) providing insurance protection and over $225 million of funds invested, ALPA is a sizable operation that requires significant financial and operating expertise. But economies of scale permit ALPA to employ qualified staff across units much less expensively than if each unit stood on its own.
ALPA must compete for its high-quality staff
To ensure that the Association can attract well-qualified employees, ALPA strives to compensate its employees at levels that are competitive for their positions in the area in which they live. (Nearly two-thirds of our employees live and work in the Washington, D.C., metro area, where the cost of living is over one-third higher than the national average.)

Figures quoted to you from government LM-2 filings include not just salaries, but also the cashed-out value of vacations that employees were unable to take due to the heavy workload, along with reimbursements for required work-related travel and other out-of-pocket expenses that the Union is required to report to the government.
Staff reduced, salaries frozen after 9/11
ALPA staff has not been immune to the financial woes of the industry. Fifteen percent of ALPA staff positions were eliminated between 2003 and 2006 as pilot compensation and dues revenue dropped after 9/11. The salaries of the remaining employees—from senior management to those represented by ALPA professional and administrative unions—have been frozen periodically, and their pay increases have been lower than in earlier years. Obviously, workloads for the remaining employees have increased substantially to cover the loss of 15% of their colleagues.

Clearly, the average member sees little of this. But virtually any pilot volunteer who has worked with the staff and depended on their support will agree that ALPA could not provide the services demanded by our members without these dedicated workers. Again—just ask them.
Third-Party Suppliers Play a Role
Even with its highly effective staff, ALPA MECs and the national organization must use outside consultants, attorneys, and other specialists. All of these services are covered by ALPA policy, which requires that they be approved by ALPA’s Executive Council.
Some of the vendors—such as Aviation Medicine Advisory Services (AMAS), which provides aeromedical advisory services to ALPA members through ALPA’s Aeromedical office in Denver—are funded exclusively out of ALPA’s National account. However, the vast majority of billing for outside law firms and consultants—including Cohen, Weiss and Simon (bankruptcy, collective bargaining, and representation legal services) and the Wilson Center (polling)—were incurred by and charged to applicable ALPA MECs. Expenses associated with other consultants—including Buck Consultants (actuaries) and Milestone, Athena and Peter J. Solomon (investment bankers)—were incurred exclusively by MECs.
The Bottom Line: Best in the World vs. . . . ?
Through 76 years of representing pilots, ALPA has assembled a team of pilots and staff unrivaled in their knowledge, expertise, dedication, and cost effectiveness. These resources are funded according to policy and reviewed by your elected representatives—line pilots whom you choose to protect your best interests. The resources you see, and the ones you never see, are provided through business practices created by pilots and run by pilots and are not available through any other single source. If you think you can do it better than ALPA, just ask the FedEx and Continental pilots. They found out the hard way.
Those who selectively highlight government reports and “grandstand” using figures that they don’t understand are not providing accurate information and are doing you a disservice...
 
I agree with you 110%. The FairTax would be more fair and Hillary or Obama will raise our taxes.

The question is....

Do you want to pay 30% tax on 100,000
or
pay 40% tax on 200,000/yr.


Not sure if many pilots like the Pilot Salary Reduction Act for the BK era enacted by the GOP Congress and Bush WH?


Anyone?
 
The question is....

Do you want to pay 30% tax on 100,000
or
pay 40% tax on 200,000/yr.


Not sure if many pilots like the Pilot Salary Reduction Act for the BK era enacted by the GOP Congress and Bush WH?


Anyone?

So your saying that if we elect Democrats, our salary will double from 100,000 to 200,000 per year? That's quite a stretch even for you Rez....

Just curious how that will happen with the Democrats? It didn't happen to me during the Clinton years.......

Regarding BK, if United and USAir had been allowed to go out of business, the remaining carriers would have been healthier..... Delta probably would not have declared BK....Did ALPA support allowing the weak carriers to go away?
 
So your saying that if we elect Democrats, our salary will double from 100,000 to 200,000 per year? That's quite a stretch even for you Rez....

How much were UAL and DAL pilots making at the end of the 90's? How much have they been making for the past three years?

Do you think we will have the ability close section 6 better/sooner with a pro labor NMB or the current one?

Just curious how that will happen with the Democrats? It didn't happen to me during the Clinton years.......

That is because we aren't talking about you Joe. we are talking about us..

Regarding BK, if United and USAir had been allowed to go out of business, the remaining carriers would have been healthier..... Delta probably would not have declared BK....Did ALPA support allowing the weak carriers to go away?

Let me guess Joe... you'd like to be the guy that goes around and delivers the news to the pilots whom ALPA decided to "allow" to go out of business.

While pilots are hanging on the the lifeboat of career survivial... you are the guy that wacks them on the hands and head and says... you gotta go so we can stay....
 

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