Delta VS Continental ?

[FlyForFood_NOT]

If you had a choice to go to either, which one would you chose (serious ideas please)?

So far pilots hired: DL 400 / CAL 1300

Projected hiring a year: DL: 700 / CAL 250

Additional planes (not replacements): DL: 25 or so / CAL maybe 10 from all the orders

Retiring pilots per year: DL 60 / CAL 130 maybe?

Pay: short run DL wins, long run same at both

In the end, DL has more exciting flying (767 int'l), bit less stable (older planes being more gas hungry, and foreign lowcost competition starting int'l routes in future).
CAL: Smaller pay at first, no 767 flying for years, but more stable, have planes that can compete with lowcosts (unlike Delta's MDs), much more fuel conscious airline.

 

[Patriot328]

If you had a choice to go to either, which one would you chose (serious ideas please)?

So far pilots hired: DL 400 / CAL 1300

Projected hiring a year: DL: 700 / CAL 250

Additional planes (not replacements): DL: 25 or so / CAL maybe 10 from all the orders

Retiring pilots per year: DL 60 / CAL 130 maybe?

Pay: short run DL wins, long run same at both

In the end, DL has more exciting flying (767 int'l), bit less stable (older planes being more gas hungry, and foreign lowcost competition starting int'l routes in future).
CAL: Smaller pay at first, no 767 flying for years, but more stable, have planes that can compete with lowcosts (unlike Delta's MDs), much more fuel conscious airline.

Delta, just because of their growth right now, they will be hiring more pilots than CAL. CAL will probably still hire pilots over the next 5 years, but nowhere nearly as many as they were going to before the Age65 change.

A lot of your info is off, though. CAL is getting a lot of airplanes (growth and replacement airframes, 737NGs, 777s, and 787s) over the next 5 years.

The 756 EWR can be held right out of training if you aren't hired into it. That does nearly all international flying, similar to the 767 at DAL.


Where do you live? I think that would be the first item on your decision list. Don't chase an airplane or a type of flying when looking for a job. And remember, growth, at ANY airline, can come to a standstill overnight.....




On Edit: I think DAL has a better running operation than CAL. I did a stint as an intern at Delta back in the late 90s. CAL of today doesn't hold a candle to DAL's operation of the late 90s. DAL seems to have a much more professionally run operation than CAL, at least then. Delta has 757s and 767s like we have 737s. They have the ability to fly nearly anywhere they want. CAL has a severe limitation on widebody/international flying. We've maxed out the 757 and do not have the 767s to spare. We're waiting for the 787s, but until the, DAL has the metal to put on routes much more so than CAL.


If I were given the choice today to start at the bottom of either list, I would go to Delta and never look back.

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

U won't fly 767 at CAL. 757 yes, and it doesn't seem nowhere near like at DL. It's mostly low end trips to England, Scotland where you spend lots of $ on overnights (you won't fly anywhere else for another year)...

Sure CAL is getting 60 737-9s next two years, and 25 787s in 2009, but MOST are replacements for 737-3-5 and 767s (maybe total of 10 are pure additions) No new 777s at all at CAL (and that comes from management)...

Delta - a merger in a few years is definite they way they are run (too much cash flows wasted there between fuel, older planes, crew pay efficiency, 1st class seats given to crews instead of revenue). Seems like they're thinking about now (blowing up int'l), but not about future. I don't see today's Delta 10 years from now, it's just impossible

... and that's what scares me about Delta

 

[Patriot328]

Well, come over to CAL then.. at least in 5 years, we'll be retiring a lot again!! We are picking up 2-4 777s (from management), but might be returning two.

Who knows.. Again, where do you live? Near any of the bases for either airline?

 

[Plug]

U won't fly 767 at CAL. 757 yes, and it doesn't seem nowhere near like at DL. It's mostly low end trips to England, Scotland where you spend lots of $ on overnights (you won't fly anywhere else for another year)...

Sure CAL is getting 60 737-9s next two years, and 25 787s in 2009, but MOST are replacements for 737-3-5 and 767s (maybe total of 10 are pure additions) No new 777s at all at CAL (and that comes from management)...

Delta - a merger in a few years is definite they way they are run (too much cash flows wasted there between fuel, older planes, crew pay efficiency, 1st class seats given to crews instead of revenue). Seems like they're thinking about now (blowing up int'l), but not about future. I don't see today's Delta 10 years from now, it's just impossible

... and that's what scares me about Delta

Don't know who your CAL source is but we aren't getting rid of any 767's. There was talk of it but that was it. We are phasing out the 735's but the -300's will be here until 2012. We will have an average net gain of 15 airframes per year for the foreseeable future plus several options. Age 65 will slow us, probably, but that remains to be seen.

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

I know things change daily on how many planes, hires, etc (and I try not to spread flam. info). Last I heard (from L.K.) was that CALs 787 are mainly replacing 767 down the road (1st prob 2010 now).
Look at the number of 767 and 787s - both 26??
The 60 new 737-9s are mainly replacing 737s (15 500s that Russians are buying out this year and some 300s, similar in 2009) . One plane takes about 20 crews total. Why is CAL only hiring 200 if many are gonna retire anyways? Where is the growth hiring then?

Bases to me don't matter as much, as I live in NJ (close to EWR and JFK)...
BTW, I'm just trying to clear fact here and I appreciate all your inputs on this guys

 

[Bavarian Chef]

The only question that matters:

How do you look in a Michael J. Fox College Republican Double Breasted Blazer?

When you can answer that, you will find your kwan.

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

1st idiot...
I can tell you've got a really high IQ

welcome to the forum dummy, now flip that gear

 

[Bavarian Chef]

1st idiot...
I can tell you've got a really high IQ

welcome to the forum dummy!

haaaaa. now that made me chuckle.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

1st idiot...
I can tell you've got a really high IQ

welcome to the forum dummy, now flip that gear

With that sense of humor, CO can have you. Nothing like spending 6 hours in the cockpit with someone who can't take a joke!

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

I guess there is a reason for phrase 'JarHead'

once you put it in the jar, that's all they can ponder

you're perfect where you are man
just stay there, oh wait i guess no 121 on your profile already. wonder why...

nah, i can take a joke, but did I ask for smart responses (line 1)??

 

[Bavarian Chef]

On second thought, that no sense of humor thing you have goin' on will certainly fit in at Delta. Enjoy.

And lighten up, Francis! Some day you won't be so weight restricted...

edit:

My first defender was a Delta guy -- props, brutha! Maybe this jagnut needs to stay at Pinnacle.

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

forget it... it's just a reminder why 1 dipstick can just throw off the whole thread in here with his 'joky joke'

ok, funny, haha, you got it man!

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

forget it... it's just a reminder why 1 dipstick can just throw off the whole thread in here with his 'joky joke'

ok, funny, haha, you got it man!
U happy now?

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

forget it... it's just a reminder why 1 dipstick can just throw off the whole thread in here with his 'joky joke'

ok, funny, haha, you got it man!
U happy now?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

forget it... it's just a reminder why 1 dipstick can just throw off the whole thread in here with his 'joky joke'

ok, funny, haha, you got it man!
U happy now?

duuuuuude. you had a choice: you could have ignored my post, but now you opened the box ... not me. one overreacting response and you get what you deserve, especially considering FI is oh I DUNNO -- an open forum, and B) a worthless diversion for whiny pilots.

you expect more? i never do.

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

That made me chuckle too

"...my 1st defender was a Delta guy"

Why don't you go ask your mom to defend you too

LOL!!

 

[Bavarian Chef]

That made me chuckle too

"...my 1st defender was a Delta guy"

Why don't you go ask your mom to defend you too

LOL!!

man, this is good stuff. i was gonna let you have your thread back, but why do that? did you just type "LOL"?

do pilots do that?

 

[Patriot328]

Why is CAL only hiring 200 if many are gonna retire anyways? Where is the growth hiring then?

No one is retiring now. Anywhere. ALL retirements at every airline have been pushed back 5 years. Now, some *may* retire before 65, but 65 is the "new 60". Don't expect anyone at any airline to be out before 65, minus a few earlies, medical outs, etc.

The 250 pilots being hired this year is due to growth. Delta is hiring 700. Even a percentage basis, DAL is hiring more than CAL.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Had the choice and took DAL with out a second thought.
We have also had a lot of CAL guys come over here. They all say that DAL is hands down a better operation, and company than CAL

 

[Patriot328]

Had the choice and took DAL with out a second thought.
We have also had a lot of CAL guys come over here. They all say that DAL is hands down a better operation, and company than CAL

If I didn't have over 1000 (out of 3800 or so) below me already, I'd think about bailing for DAL, as well. I have enough seniority to warrant staying, I think/hope.

The one thing CAL had over most everyone else was the movement due to retirements. Sure, there is some movement to growth, but the retirements is what really made this place a good place to wind up. Now that it's been delayed.... well, we have even more work to do on this next contract (not that we didn't before).


Enjoy Delta, I know I would have. Y'all have a helluva an operation and a helluva contract, even post BK, than ours. (Try to tell some of our koolaide captains that!! HAH)

 

[GogglesPisano]

I had this choice last year and went with Delta. Commuting wasn't an issue since I can drive to NYC but it should be a big factor in anyone's decision. I suppose Delta's more numerous domiciles give them the edge. The biggest factors were me were:

1) Better pay the first few years

2) No wait for insurance

3) Getting on at the begining of a hiring wave versus one that was well underway

4) Although CAL has a lot of new blood who I'm sure will lead the charge for an industry-leading contract, a lot can happen in the next few years -- and it looks like mostly bad things. Right now Delta has a better contract and a bird in the hand ...

5) I've wanted to work at Delta since I was a kid (I know, emotion should not factor in to the equation.)

This being said I would have gladly gone to CAL had Delta not offered me a job. And been very happy.

Rose-colored glasses aside, thus far Delta has been a first-class operation. Pilots get a lot of support (unlike the regional and ACMI carriers I've worked for -- can you say manual W&B with a pencil and ruler in an MD11?) This is by far the easiest job I've ever had. But I'm sure the same can be said of any major.

Mergers are the unknown, but if two merge they'll all merge.

And before Pocono or Tankerclown get on here and start flaming, everyone just ignore them

 

[Superpilot92]

I had this choice last year and went with Delta. Commuting wasn't an issue since I can drive to NYC but it should be a big factor in anyone's decision. I suppose Delta's more numerous domiciles give them the edge. The biggest factors were me were:

1) Better pay the first few years

2) No wait for insurance

3) Getting on at the begining of a hiring wave versus one that was well underway

4) Although CAL has a lot of new blood who I'm sure will lead the charge for an industry-leading contract, a lot can happen in the next few years -- and it looks like mostly bad things. Right now Delta has a better contract and a bird in the hand ...

5) I've wanted to work at Delta since I was a kid (I know, emotion should not factor in to the equation.)

This being said I would have gladly gone to CAL had Delta not offered me a job. And been very happy.

Rose-colored glasses aside, thus far Delta has been a first-class operation. Pilots get a lot of support (unlike the regional and ACMI carriers I've worked for -- can you say manual W&B with a pencil and ruler in an MD11?) This is by far the easiest job I've ever had. But I'm sure the same can be said of any major.

Mergers are the unknown, but if two merge they'll all merge.

And before Pocono or Tankerclown get on here and start flaming, everyone just ignore them

AGREED!!!!

 

[motch]

I'll bite too...

Interviewed with Delta and got turned down... Interviewed with CAL and got on...

Just got done with training and have to say I've enjoyed it. Got the 756, so anyone who says you can't get the 767 out of the gate is lying.

The interview process was night and day between the two. I know of people who got on at CAL and turned down by Delta (just like me) and vice a vers. No rime or reason (sp?).

I will say the culture at the Delta interview seemed very cold compared to CAL.

I live in NYC so both of them were on my short list and as someone said before, both have their + and -'s.
In the end, I guess we'll only know if we choose correctly in 20 or so years. I'm definitely glad to be at CAL, looking forward to getting a few friends on here, and more importantly.. an industry leading contract in the future.

Good Luck!
Motch

 

[Fit59]

5) (unlike the regional and ACMI carriers I've worked for -- can you say manual W&B with a pencil and ruler in an MD11?) This is by far the easiest job I've ever had. But I'm sure the same can be said of any major.

Sorry, have to hijack the thread for a moment; but I flew at the same ACMI and still can't believe the amount of time and effort it took to get an MD-11 off the ground there! It's amazing how different a major can be... (Remember manually loading the winds????).

Congrats on Delta (a great place to work)! I wonder if we ever flew together.

Fit59

 

[pianoman]

...
In the end, I guess we'll only know if we choose correctly in 20 or so years. I'm definitely glad to be at CAL, looking forward to getting a few friends on here, and more importantly.. an industry leading contract in the future.

Good Luck!
Motch

Well said. I like CAL so far as well, in most regards. I hope we can fix the problems in the next contract.

 

[Ezralite]

That made me chuckle too

"...my 1st defender was a Delta guy"

Why don't you go ask your mom to defend you too

LOL!!

What are you, like 12 years old?

 

[Furloughed80]

IMHO CAL has its positives:

1) As stated, the fleet will grow 10-15 airframes a year for the next 3-4 years.

2) Once pilots start retiring again, CAL will pick up where it left off at the peak of its retirement cycle.

3) 25 firm 787s with options for 35. As new as the 767s are and with CAL's shortage of WB aircraft, I don't see the 767s leaving the fleet. I have never read or heard anything from any source regarding the retirement of the 767 fleet. Just another FI rumor.

Finally, I don't really buy the notion that DAL is a better run operation than CAL. CAL usually exceeds DAL in almost every industry parameter of operational performance (customer complaints, on-time, completion factor, mishandled bags etc.) and has won almost every consumer award out there.

I think CAL's biggest problem is the contract. I am confident that the pilot group can change that with Contract '08.

 

[ATRCA]

IMHO CAL has its positives:

1) As stated, the fleet will grow 10-15 airframes a year for the next 3-4 years.

2) Once pilots start retiring again, CAL will pick up where it left off at the peak of its retirement cycle.

3) 25 firm 787s with options for 35. As new as the 767s are and with CAL's shortage of WB aircraft, I don't see the 767s leaving the fleet. I have never read or heard anything from any source regarding the retirement of the 767 fleet. Just another FI rumor.

Finally, I don't really buy the notion that DAL is a better run operation than CAL. CAL usually exceeds DAL in almost every industry parameter of operational performance (customer complaints, on-time, completion factor, mishandled bags etc.) and has won almost every consumer award out there.

I think CAL's biggest problem is the contract. I am confident that the pilot group can change that with Contract '08.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. DAL is a great company no doubt however CAL scores better in almost every operating metric that airlines use to compare one another. CAL also flies to more Int'l destinations than any other US carrier. I would have been very pleased to be at either company but CAL is no slouch.

 

[Jmoney]

Really....

I guess there is a reason for phrase 'JarHead'

once you put it in the jar, that's all they can ponder

you're perfect where you are man
just stay there, oh wait i guess no 121 on your profile already. wonder why...

nah, i can take a joke, but did I ask for smart responses (line 1)??

You sit around and get pissed when people flame you? I think you have a pretty bad "panty wad" situation. You can't possibly think you are going to get a serious analysis around here when you start out by insulting flamers-DUH!

As for the "jarhead" joke. WTF? Was that some Chinese joke translated to French by a Russian, Spanish by a Vietnamese dude, and then English by a Portugese guy? That joke makes no sense whatsoever! I guess the bright side is that you have totally failed to insult anyone.