Airtran FO's...demand your worth

[airline#5]

My letter to our union president...

"I am interested in knowing how many of the 300 pilots polled were FO's. I wasn't called, but sure would have liked to express my displeasure with the current and previously proposed FO pay rates. Many of the FO's came here for a promised quick upgrade, that's no more. Many of us also have more experience and years of service in the industry than the many young Capt's at AirTran. Capt pay at this company should not be subsidized by unfairly low FO pay. Thanks for hearing my rant."

Please people, demand what your worth. 2/3 of Capt pay is a must, it's the industry standard and attainable if we make some noise. Your right seat will likely be yours for a long time. Previous Wilson polling results supposedly made the claim that the FO's were satisfied with the current industry lagging wages. Hard to stomach that reality, don't believe it. How many times have you heard proud Capt's brag about making more money than Delta Capt's of equal longevity and equipment while FO's make far less than their counterparts. This is not intended to be divisive, but rather an attempt to rally the AAI FO's, the most unfairly paid group in the industry. BTW, if this inequity persists after I upgrade, my tune won't change a bit. God bless.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Many of us also have more experience and years of service in the industry than the many young Capt's at AirTran.

I think you lost credibility when you added this sentence.

 

[TV9Driver]

what you said.....

I definitely think that the f/o's at AAI are more unified than the captains. Maybe we are a different breed or something, I dunno, but that's why I think our leadership should reflect the "youth" movement.

 

[labatt]

Leaving

Midwest hiring? Get me out of Airtran!
"The culture is soooo F'ed up here, please tell me you guys are are hiring soon. BTW you really dodged a bullet. Congrats!!!!!"


I thought you were leaving? Looking to go to Midwest? How'd that work out?



p.s.....Just busting balls.

I agree with your FO pay concerns. That being said, I have buddies at most other airlines. Talking with them about q.o.l. and even pay, we could be doing a hell of a lot worse. It will get better, but if you are really that unhappy here.....bail. Lot's of options right now. It's all a crapshoot until age 60....err...65.

 

[Max Powers]

I think you lost credibility when you added this sentence.

Commensurate with age this statement may be true or it may just be true some of the time. But isn't relevant in an argument for higher FO pay.

 

[Lear70]

Commensurate with age this statement may be true or it may just be true some of the time. But isn't relevant in an argument for higher FO pay.

That's absolutely correct.

I flew with several CA's who had quite a few thousand hours less time than me, the 717 was their 2nd type rating, and had only a small percentage of my total PIC turbine time.

That's not to say that they were bad CA's, quite the opposite in almost every case! They just had gotten on at AAI at what was, unbeknownst to them, the best timing they could possibly have had. Who knew in early 2001 that just 5 years later they'd be CA's in the top 20% of the seniority list if they jumped on...? I guarantee you they thought it was a stepping stone and now they're comfy and making decent cash as (relatively) senior CA's. Good for them.

Doesn't change the fact that many F/O's have been flying longer, have more years as Part 121 PIC's, more flight time, more type ratings, and more experience than many of their CA's. It's not a slap at anyone, just a fact of life.

That's exactly what I said at the table to Kolski, Klaus, Bob High, etc. The pilots hired in the last 5 years at AirTran control the vote and, for the most part, they've come from places where they were already underpaid and overworked and they're sure as HELL not going to put themselves back in that position.

That statement wasn't very well received (I thought Kolski was going to blow a gasket).

That's not to say that there aren't any CA's who don't support the F/O's. Quite the opposite, there are MANY CA's who voted No based on F/O and junior CA issues alone, even though it didn't affect them, which I was very impressed with.

The more people who speak up to the NPA, the more likely it is they will change their position. No one wants to be back in the boat of bringing a T.A. to the pilots that won't pass...

It's your union. Tell them what you want!

 

[newnan]

I think you lost credibility when you added this sentence.

Agreed! Also, how about the fact that he's not happy with the current pay rate. Didn't he know that when he filled out the ap, sent it in, interviewed, and accepted the job offer?

I fly with a lot of guys that have more time in reverse than I have total time and 95% of them are great. Airline #5 must be part of that 5% that's in every group.

F/O pay was the #3 reason I voted no for the TA with the first two being scope and reserve rules. I will always stand behind our F/O's but an attitude like this reminds me too much of the entitlement society we're living in.

 

[newnan]

That's absolutely correct.

The pilots hired in the last 5 years at AirTran control the vote and, for the most part, they've come from places where they were already underpaid and overworked and they're sure as HELL not going to put themselves back in that position.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Doesn't anybody do any research before they try to get hired at an airline? They have put themselves back in the same position. I'm all for making things better, but bitching and moaning about a current CBA that was in effect when they were hired and they knew full well could be in effect for a while doesn't hold water. We voted down an inadequate TA, recalled the leadership, and hopefully as a group have given clear guidance as to what we are expecting from the new leadership. Until then, quit yer bitchin about what was in effect when you chose to take this job.

 

[scarlet]

great post newnan--you knew what Airtran paid when you went there, and if you don't like it-LEAVE!! Everyone is hiring..????

 

[Lear70]

great post newnan--you knew what Airtran paid when you went there, and if you don't like it-LEAVE!! Everyone is hiring..????

How about... "If you don't like it, fight to make it better!"

Some people would rather fight for change than jump from airline to airline when none of them are perfect.

Find one where you like the base, you like the people, and try to make it better from within. If you succeed, great. If not, at least you tried, and it's still better than where you were at.

Just a thought...

 

[Lowrider717]

what you said.....

I definitely think that the f/o's at AAI are more unified than the captains. Maybe we are a different breed or something, I dunno, but that's why I think our leadership should reflect the "youth" movement.

Most of the FO's I talk to are "just happy to be here".
Most don't know their contract, bother to file grievances when pissed on, don't question their paysheet, don't wanna make waves, etc.etc. Hopefully this trend will change, when they realize they'll be sitting in the right seat longer than they thought.

 

[Capt.LongThrust]

I see what #5 tried to say. Just did not come off so eloquently. The reason the guy is in the left seat and you are in the right seat is seniority. Plain and simple, not the best stick, more experienced, better looking, yada yada. His number came up first and thats it.

As far as pay. We will get what we negotiate. Nothing more, nothing less. By the results of the last election the "give a $hit" attitude among us might be trending down again.

 

[SkiFishFly]

As far as pay. We will get what we negotiate. Nothing more, nothing less. By the results of the last election the "give a $hit" attitude among us might be trending down again.

Couldn't agree more.

Let's all work to get our fellow pilots to vote!

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Doesn't anybody do any research before they try to get hired at an airline? They have put themselves back in the same position. I'm all for making things better, but bitching and moaning about a current CBA that was in effect when they were hired and they knew full well could be in effect for a while doesn't hold water. We voted down an inadequate TA, recalled the leadership, and hopefully as a group have given clear guidance as to what we are expecting from the new leadership. Until then, quit yer bitchin about what was in effect when you chose to take this job.

And that's why I left AT. The attitude that one knew what they were getting into is not valid. We were also told that we would upgrade in three years. That's obviously not gonna happen. Well, maybe with the exodus, those leaving will provide enough movement for the rest.

Year two at my new airline will get me more money than all AT FOs. And that is under a concessionary agreement.

 

[Wesb737fo]

Couldn't agree more.

Let's all work to get our fellow pilots to vote!

You got that right!